Many thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier email - the comments were all very helpful to forming my thoughts prior to the conference. We're half way through at the moment and I thought it may be interesting to our supporters to hear some thoughts from the c&binet conference.
The main output for me personally has been to improve the presentation we're putting together for the "Workplace Learning Lunches" seminar programmes - things like seeing attribution as a form of soft advertising and saying new forces are shaping business and they shouldn't be left behind. Understanding the corporate context is important to effectively link into that. More on that later, when we finish the draft, which I'll share with everyone and would appreciate everyone's comments.
The other output has been in the people I've met. Particularly interesting was a conversation I had with the CEO of a leading UK technology infrastructure company, which has over 4,000 employees. They have implemented wikis on their intranet to capture employee suggestions, and have seen an enormous increase in take up over the past year. He's invited us to come and visit the company and see it working in action, and I very much look forward to taking him up on this offer, and possibly including the example in the seminars.
Other interesting people include Joscelyn Upendran who works for Creative Commons and a young entrepreneur developing a user-generated search machine (wikia anyone?)
I had an opportunity to ask a question during a "free content" session - which was more about "freemium" (free to paid) content - which hopefully planted the seed in the mind of people to hink about Wikimedia communities when looking at this.
Other snippets:
- Lord Mandelson's keynote at 9:40 tomorrow is billed to include a "big announcment" - possibly draft legislation on copyright enforcement .
- Lots of talk from big business interests saying there is a "narrow legislative window of opportunity" at the moment (i.e. before the next general election)
- David Lammy, the minister pushing through copyright reform, gave an excellent speech, very insightful and understanding of issues. Quote of the day from him: "Good artists copy, great artists steal". Either a very talented person or he has an excellent speechwriter!
- For a "creative" conference focussing on new technologies it was remarkably lacking in opportunities for delegates to participate in asking questions etc - format is largely a panel discussing the issue among themselves.
- SIon Simon, another politician present, mentioned that the copyright debate is highly polarised between the industry and free copyright advocates, both sides are deaf to the other and they need to engage. Despite this the discussions on copyright have been largely one sided, unbalanced, with some fairly extreme language used - "copyright warriors", "green ink brigade". "a generation of stealing" etc.
- A few facts to promote donations to WMUK: "London is a leading creative hub of the world" (EU Commission Director General), "120,000 books published in UK every year", "creative industries comprise 6% of the economy" (largest % in the world), "creative industries larger than carmaking"
- David Rowan (WiredUK): "Government should free data - postcodes, ordinance survey"
- "obscurity for some artists is a bigger challenge than piracy"
- "we need a new settlement to liberate archived rights"
- "we should have extended collective licensing"
- "businesses spend huge effort in clearing licenses - need more effective ways of clearing large numbers of rights holders"
- "copyright switches should be turned to "on" by default rather than "off""
- "working on a new digital license to allow museums to publish in-copyright articles"
- "free to air TV can survive, but only if it reduces its costs base" (creative commons / user generated content anyone?)
- "licensing details should be included in the metadata"
Comments, as always, appreciated.
Regards
Andrew
"Andrew Turvey" andrewrturvey@googlemail.com wrote:
From: "Andrew Turvey" andrewrturvey@googlemail.com To: "WMUK-L" wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, 19 October, 2009 23:58:37 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: C&binet Forum
We've been invited to go along to a conference next week organized by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport on "creative industries". Although we made it clear to them that we are not-for-profit and a lot of the programme is not particularly relevant, they were very keen to get us to go along, even to the extent of giving us a free ticket.
The website is at http://www.cabinetforum.org and the agenda is:
- Access to finance for creative industries: What do creative businesses need to do to attract investment and demonstrate reliability of future cash flow? How do you tackle the lack of understanding between investors and creative
- New business models for online content: How can a viable business be made out of online content without relying on advertising?
- Developing Talent: What can be done to create opportunities for the next generation of creative talent? How can creative businesses make sure tomorrow’s employees have the right skills to thrive?
- Securing creative rights: How best to ensure that those who generate and fund creative product are able to secure its value? Both regulatory and non-regulatory methods will be examined.
Some of these things are clearly not relevant for us but some - "securing creative rights" and "new business models" - are issues that we may wish to have input into. There are also likely to be some big hitters there who we would be interested in partnering with in the future, including senior people from companies like Spotify, BBC Vision and Wired UK. Peter Mandelson is a keynote speaker, which could be an important opportunity to put the case for public domain to a key decision maker.
My question: what should I focus on at this conference and what should I aim to get out of it?
Any thoughts appreciated.
Andrew
David Lammy, the minister pushing through copyright reform, gave an excellent speech, very insightful and understanding of issues. Quote of the day from him: "Good artists copy, great artists steal". Either a very talented person or he has an excellent speechwriter!
This is a quote by Picasso!
Kalliopi
Kalliopi Vacharopoulou wrote:
David Lammy, the minister pushing through copyright reform, gave an
excellent speech, very insightful and understanding of issues. Quote of the day from him: "Good artists copy, great artists steal". Either a very talented person or he has an excellent speechwriter!
This is a quote by Picasso!
If so, he stole it. "Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal" is T. S. Eliot, from [[The Sacred Wood (T.S. Eliot)]].
Charles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Wood_%28T.S._Eliot%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Wood_%28T.S._Eliot%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Wood_%28T.S._Eliot%29
On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:10 +0000, Andrew Turvey wrote:
- SIon Simon, another politician present, mentioned that the copyright
debate is highly polarised between the industry and free copyright advocates, both sides are deaf to the other and they need to engage. Despite this the discussions on copyright have been largely one sided, unbalanced, with some fairly extreme language used - "copyright warriors", "green ink brigade". "a generation of stealing" etc.
That's a complete and utter misrepresentation of the other side. It's a random representation from some file-sharer or other. He has obviously made absolutely any effort to talk to the other side. If you get the chance, suggest he talk to Richard Stallman, in fact, urge him to do so.
I've been following the Pirate Party mailing list the past few days. They don't want the abolition of copyright; they've read what RMS has to say on the topic, and their interest is more in seeing a complete reevaluation of copyright in the context of it being a social contract. Not just rights granted to a copyright holder by society, but responsibilities that come with them - like not just letting things enter the public domain when copyright expires, put actually taking the time to put them out there, freely available.
Creative works are, collectively, our cultural heritage; with regard to music, the vast majority creating it see little to no financial reward for doing so. The 'industry', on the other hand, has a long and shameful history of assuming they have a right to be paid over and over and over again for exactly the same piece of work.
2009/10/27 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
That's a complete and utter misrepresentation of the other side.
I take it you missed the fair use wars on en?
It's a random representation from some file-sharer or other. He has obviously made absolutely any effort to talk to the other side. If you get the chance, suggest he talk to Richard Stallman, in fact, urge him to do so.
It was hard enough to get Stallman to engage with CC who in theory share some objectives with the FSF. Lawrence Lessig might be a better choice.
I've been following the Pirate Party mailing list the past few days.
Which one?
They don't want the abolition of copyright; they've read what RMS has to say on the topic, and their interest is more in seeing a complete reevaluation of copyright in the context of it being a social contract. Not just rights granted to a copyright holder by society, but responsibilities that come with them - like not just letting things enter the public domain when copyright expires, put actually taking the time to put them out there, freely available.
Been tried the library of congress is the result. Doesn't work to well for small copyright holders. It would also have the potential to play merry hell with free content licenses.
Creative works are, collectively, our cultural heritage; with regard to music, the vast majority creating it see little to no financial reward for doing so. The 'industry', on the other hand, has a long and shameful history of assuming they have a right to be paid over and over and over again for exactly the same piece of work.
No their marketing tends to move on.
On 27 Oct 2009, at 17:10, Andrew Turvey wrote:
- Lord Mandelson's keynote at 9:40 tomorrow is billed to include a
"big announcment" - possibly draft legislation on copyright enforcement.
The BBC have an article about this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8328820.stm
Mike
At 20:05 +0000 27/10/09, Michael Peel wrote:
On 27 Oct 2009, at 17:10, Andrew Turvey wrote:
- Lord Mandelson's keynote at 9:40 tomorrow is billed to include a
"big announcment" - possibly draft legislation on copyright enforcement.
The BBC have an article about this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8328820.stm
Mike
And I heard that so called "net pirates" are now flocking to sites that disguise their IP address.
Gordo
2009/10/27 Andrew Turvey andrewrturvey@googlemail.com:
- Lots of talk from big business interests saying there is a "narrow
legislative window of opportunity" at the moment (i.e. before the next general election)
Given the spectacular series of delays on updating / UK copyright law they may have a point.
- For a "creative" conference focussing on new technologies it was
remarkably lacking in opportunities for delegates to participate in asking questions etc - format is largely a panel discussing the issue among themselves.
Still we need to know what some of the players are thinking.
- SIon Simon, another politician present, mentioned that the copyright
debate is highly polarised between the industry and free copyright advocates, both sides are deaf to the other and they need to engage. Despite this the discussions on copyright have been largely one sided, unbalanced, with some fairly extreme language used - "copyright warriors", "green ink brigade". "a generation of stealing" etc.
Going by the copyright arguments on wikipedia that is unsurprising. Who was "copyright warriors" aimed at?
- David Rowan (WiredUK): "Government should free data - postcodes, ordinance
survey"
Any mention of United Kingdom Hydrographic Office?
"obscurity for some artists is a bigger challenge than piracy"
"we need a new settlement to liberate archived rights"
archived rights?
- "we should have extended collective licensing"
Potential danger there. Some forms of collective licensing can create issues for free licenses.
- "businesses spend huge effort in clearing licenses - need more effective
ways of clearing large numbers of rights holders"
That risks meaning "disenfranchise small copyright holders".
- "copyright switches should be turned to "on" by default rather than "off""
?
- "working on a new digital license to allow museums to publish in-copyright
articles"
Driven by the Anthony Blunt thing?
- "licensing details should be included in the metadata"
In theory yes but a lot of people strip out metadata and not all file formats support it that well. It would make the life of commons admins less hard though.
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org