On 14 Sep 2015, at 08:09, Rod Ward <rodward(a)plus.net> wrote: Lester, I don't think defining hamlet v village by size of population is useful. Hamlet (place) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet_(place)#United_Kingdom ) under UK explores the difference the difference between civil parish and ecclesiastical parish and uses the traditional "settlement without a church". Another complication is the division between village and town (complicated by legislation allowing parish councils to adopt the term town council). An example local to me is the ongoing debate (slow edit war) between Cheddar, Somerset a village with a population of 5,755 and Axbridge a town with a population of 2,057. Rod -----Original Message----- From: wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lester Caine Sent: 14 September 2015 00:16 To: talk-gb(a)openstreetmap.org; UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Village, Hamlet and populations ... I'm currently working around the area trying to get all the local places cross referenced properly. I've got The 2012 Index of Places from the ONS which has a supposedly complete set of places, but I've been hitting a number of problems which I think I've finally sussed. The OSM wiki defines 'hamlet' as less than 100-200 people, but village supposedly starts at 1000 up to 10000 with the proviso that it depends on the country. Ideally the two would perhaps meet :) We are perhaps looking at a population of around 8000 for a town designation in the UK, but anything down to 100 is still classified as a village by the ONS. What are actually missing from the OSN data are ANY hamlets despite their claiming to include them. My first exercise was to add links on the OSM data to the wikipedia entry for each village, and there is a small list of miss matches which I'm trying to sort out. However when cross referencing the population data reported by wikipedia quoting the 2011 census, but what that fails to account for is that only provides totals for the whole parish, which may have more than one hamlet/village. The IOP data contains the 'BUA' population for the villages, but omits the rest of the hamlets that make up the parish/ward. The IOP data is released under the Open Government Licence V2 so I see no problem using it in OSM or Wikipedia? I think what we are still looking for is a consistent list of hamlets to work from to fill in the gaps? The IOP data was supposed to be updated annually, but it seems only annual updates are currently being generated. To add to the fun, the six digit codes I've been using for LLPG data for many years have been replaced by a 9 digit code. While the 6 digit code had a nice three level structure, the 9 digit code has lost the third layer, but these still only go down to the ward/parish level. There is still no ID for the town/village :( And Scotland and Northern Ireland are separate data sets ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6125 / Virus Database: 4419/10628 - Release Date: 09/12/15 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Part of the problem here is that statuses such as city, town and village don't always get taken away if a place declines in population or over the centuries doesn't grow as fast as other cities. Case in point, in the categorisation I've been doing on commons I occasionally come across abandoned villages or churches that no longer have a village. But not "hamlets that formerly were villages". From the OSM view, being able to tag a former church which has now