I made it clear in the conversations on the 17th that I saw no sign of the WMUK Board wanting to dominate or set the agenda for UK WLM; like the rest of us they are hoping a champion will emerge.
I've posted the following at the discussion page http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_brainstorm for the WLM event, and suggest that discussion is continued there:
Following on from coversations at the Jan 17 events, mentioned on the UK mailing list, there seemed to be considerable agreement that, apart from the general aim of recruiting people etc, the most useful actual photos might well be in specialized areas where we were weak, as opposed to general "old buildings" where we are mostly very strong. Such specialized requirements could be encouraged by special classes with their own prizes. Those mentioned, as I recall, were:
*War memorials *Wrecks (there are "Scheduled wrecks") *Church furnishings *Side of a building murals
Please add any other thoughts above or below.
Johnbod
On 19 January 2012 14:11, John Byrne john@bodkinprints.co.uk wrote:
the most useful actual photos might well be in specialized areas
*War memorials *Wrecks (there are "Scheduled wrecks") *Church furnishings *Side of a building murals
* public art (statues, chalk carvings etc) * fountains & other water features * (blue) plaques (collaboration with openplaques.org) * street furniture (notable historic; perhaps a representative sample of new)
One thing that is fascinating to me are the painted equivalents of billboards. These survive (not always intact) for decades and probably centuries in some cases (in Stamford we have "Loose boxes and stabling" on what form recollection is now a hardware store).
I would add water troughs to the list.
I will also add that while I was visiting South Mimms graveyard (in the village, not the service station) many years ago, I happened across a gentleman recording the details of the graves, of which (other than the organization for which he was volunteering) there was no central record.
Foundation stones can be interesting, and dated architectural features, and of course unusual manhole covers (I believe there used to be a coterie of folk who made rubbings of these) though they are not exactly monuments.
On war memorials note that not all are traditional stone crosses. The organ at St Paul's, Winchmore Hill is a war memorial, and Stamford has a wooden one outside All Saints, in addition to the rather grand affair near Browne's Hospital (and a third inside St Mary's).
On 23 January 2012 00:51, Richard Farmbrough richard@farmbrough.co.uk wrote:
One thing that is fascinating to me are the painted equivalents of billboards. These survive (not always intact) for decades and probably centuries in some cases (in Stamford we have "Loose boxes and stabling" on what form recollection is now a hardware store).
Often referred to as "ghost signs" (a useful term should you wish to search for them using Google of Flickr, say).
In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
WereSpielChequers
I am sure you all know this but the Imperial War Museum uncatalogued every First World War memorial (Including private ones) a few years back.
Quoting WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com:
In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
WereSpielChequers
Meant CATALOGUED not UNCATALGUED
Quoting Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk:
I am sure you all know this but the Imperial War Museum uncatalogued every First World War memorial (Including private ones) a few years back.
Quoting WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com:
In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
WereSpielChequers
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. 07976 935 986 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited. Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Don't forget that whilst we have photos of a lot of things, we don't necessarily have *good* photos of them. In particular, Geograph consists mostly of low-resolution (and often low-quality) images. We could/should be encouraging people to share higher quality photos with Commons as well as covering subject gaps (e.g. by rewarding quality rather than quantity).
Thanks, Mike
On 23 Jan 2012, at 12:42, WereSpielChequers wrote:
In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
WereSpielChequers
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
I agree with Mike that we should be recognising quality, and I agree with the others that focusing attention on specific gaps (as long as they're broad enough to interest enough people) is likely to yield better results than a "go out and take photos of whatever" approach.
Not quite within the scope of WLM, but it would be nice to get people to upload/release images relating to historical events. For example, there must be someone out there with photos of the aftermath of the Lockerbie bombing, or of the SAS storming the Iranian embassy, or even of the London bombings in 2005 (ie something more than a mobile phone photo taken in a tunnel and a photo of a queue of emergency vehicles). Images of notable events actually taking place (as opposed to, say, a picture of the burnt-out Iranian embassy after the siege) is an area where we struggle I think, and one of the few areas where commercial media out-do us.
Harry
________________________________ From: Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, 23 January 2012, 14:01 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Making Wikipedia loves monuments work in the UK.
Don't forget that whilst we have photos of a lot of things, we don't necessarily have *good* photos of them. In particular, Geograph consists mostly of low-resolution (and often low-quality) images. We could/should be encouraging people to share higher quality photos with Commons as well as covering subject gaps (e.g. by rewarding quality rather than quantity).
Thanks, Mike
On 23 Jan 2012, at 12:42, WereSpielChequers wrote:
In suggesting things like war memorials I'm not trying to restrict people, but I would like to point them to our gaps. It should be easy for anyone to work out whether we have photographs of the churches, libraries, statues, war memorials, blue plaques, pubs and hospitals in their patch, and a fill in the gaps project would in my view be well worthwhile. I think that it is much more positive for our current and future photographers to acknowledge that we already have a couple of million images in the UK and our aim is to make that more comprehensive.
Of course those who are willing to look up lists rather than just look at the images that we already have would be welcome to complete our collections of listed buildings and Ancient monuments. ut for Wiki Loves Monuments I think we need to make things easy and at the same time interesting. The Geograph really does have images of a fallen fence post with the description "most interesting thing in this grid square". I think we could and should do a WLM contest that asks people to fill in interesting gaps, and caters for pretty much whatever interests our photographers.
A photo of every gravestone in every cemetery would certainly be of interest to the amateur genealogists, but we need to remember that not every volunteer would share their enthusiasm - I've categorised a fair few Geograph images and apart from notable people like Darwin, Monty and Captain Bligh the bulk of the cemetery shots don't give detail on inscriptions. But following on from Charles Matthes point, maybe what we should be doing is outreach to these various cemetery societies and offering them a home on the web for their images.
WereSpielChequers
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 23 January 2012 14:01, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Don't forget that whilst we have photos of a lot of things, we don't necessarily have *good* photos of them. In particular, Geograph consists mostly of low-resolution (and often low-quality) images. We could/should be encouraging people to share higher quality photos with Commons as well as covering subject gaps (e.g. by rewarding quality rather than quantity).
I imagined we were getting closer to an idea of a "pilot" along the lines WSQ was indicating. What I think we ultimately should aim for, in years to come, is not just a restatement of what Commons and "featured content" is for, 366 days a year. We do need a vehicle for outreach for those with data, not just photographers.
Charles
On 23 January 2012 00:51, Richard Farmbrough richard@farmbrough.co.ukwrote:
I will also add that while I was visiting South Mimms graveyard (in the village, not the service station) many years ago, I happened across a gentleman recording the details of the graves, of which (other than the organization for which he was volunteering) there was no central record.
That's a whole big area, properly called "monumental inscriptions". Many
graveyards and cemeteries have groups who record what is on the monuments, and/or maintain the place, and sometimes they keep a database of information about who is buried there. There is no centralisation, though, at present. It is a microcosm of the whole area, really.
Charles
On 23/01/2012 00:51, Richard Farmbrough wrote:
I would add water troughs to the list.
Good idea!
"Metropolitan Drinking Fountain & Cattle Trough Association"
http://www.flickr.com/groups/902751@N21/
More than 300 images in there!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loopzilla/1323913761/in/pool-902751@N21/
Gordo
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org