http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
- d.
On 9/23/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Have they stated it is in the public domain?
On 23/09/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/23/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373 Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Have they stated it is in the public domain?
If it's from 1665, I really really doubt they get not to.
- d.
At 01:55 +0100 23/9/06, geni wrote:
On 9/23/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Have they stated it is in the public domain?
Below are two extracts from an article from the THES (Times Higher Education Supplement) Friday 22nd September 2006.
***
Ambiguous copyright law catches out scholars
Publishers and galleries are charging unnecessarily. Jessica Shepherd reports
Academics are being incorrectly told to hand over thousands of pounds to use works of art, literature and music in their research, a report has revealed. The study by the British Academy criticises those copyright holders who wrongly charge scholars in the name of the law. Many publishers and art galleries have failed to grasp that copyright law does not apply when material is to be used for private study, criticism, review or non-commercial research, the report points out. It argues that the demands of copyright owners hinder scholarship in the humanities and social sciences. The British Academy hopes to lobby the Government to make copyright law clearer for publishers and academics with the publication of its study Copyright and Research in the Humanities and Social Sciences.
[...]
Stephen Navin, chief executive of the Music Publishers' Association, said: "Our members are not trying to mislead academics. Copyright law is complicated...."
[...]
Hmmm.... "non commercial research". Wikipedia is non commercial, but derivatives, such as Answers.com are not, thanks to the GFDL.
Gordo
On Saturday, September 23, 2006, at 01:45 am, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Is it really public domain? Or is there copyright in the scans? I ask as the website says:
"The archive will be freely available online until December 2006 and, following this period, will be available as part of Royal Society journal subscription packages or alternatively on a-pay per-view basis."
So presumably, they haven't put online for two months free access the results of goodness-knows-how-much hours of scanning just for people to spider mirror it...?
Scott
___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos � NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
On 9/23/06, Scott Keir scottkeir@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2006, at 01:45 am, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Is it really public domain? Or is there copyright in the scans? I ask as the website says:
"The archive will be freely available online until December 2006 and, following this period, will be available as part of Royal Society journal subscription packages or alternatively on a-pay per-view basis."
So presumably, they haven't put online for two months free access the results of goodness-knows-how-much hours of scanning just for people to spider mirror it...?
Scott
Under UK law that could probably be described as a legal grey area. Scans of public domain work may or may not be subject to copyright within the UK. Case law says probably. The limited amount of legal opinion I know about says probably not. It is hard to tell.
Well wikimediaUK can ask can't it? Permission request form: There's a permission request form on the link above in "Useful Info" then "Rights and Permissions"
On 23/09/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/23/06, Scott Keir scottkeir@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2006, at 01:45 am, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Is it really public domain? Or is there copyright in the scans? I ask as the website says:
"The archive will be freely available online until December 2006 and, following this period, will be available as part of Royal Society journal subscription packages or alternatively on a-pay per-view basis."
So presumably, they haven't put online for two months free access the results of goodness-knows-how-much hours of scanning just for people to spider mirror it...?
Scott
Under UK law that could probably be described as a legal grey area. Scans of public domain work may or may not be subject to copyright within the UK. Case law says probably. The limited amount of legal opinion I know about says probably not. It is hard to tell.
-- geni _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
On 9/23/06, Rich rich.rr@gmail.com wrote:
Well wikimediaUK can ask can't it? Permission request form: There's a permission request form on the link above in "Useful Info" then "Rights and Permissions"
That appears to be aimed at single use. If I remeber I'll phone them up on monday
On 9/23/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/23/06, Rich rich.rr@gmail.com wrote:
Well wikimediaUK can ask can't it? Permission request form: There's a permission request form on the link above in "Useful Info" then "Rights and Permissions"
That appears to be aimed at single use. If I remeber I'll phone them up on monday -- geni
Ok I contacted them.They are claiming copyright over the scans but not over the textual content. If we ran the scans though an optical character recognition system we would be ok although there would probably be ok although then there is the issue of errors made by the program. I didn't ask about the situation in the US with regards to Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.
Great, I don't mind helping, when I know where and what. An obvious suggestion but do we want to have a wiki to 1) Coordinating download/scans/error checking 2)Upload the pdf's to and 3) store the OCR's and as a base for error checking?
On 25/09/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/23/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/23/06, Rich rich.rr@gmail.com wrote:
Well wikimediaUK can ask can't it? Permission request form: There's a permission request form on the link above in "Useful Info"
then
"Rights and Permissions"
That appears to be aimed at single use. If I remeber I'll phone them up on monday -- geni
Ok I contacted them.They are claiming copyright over the scans but not over the textual content. If we ran the scans though an optical character recognition system we would be ok although there would probably be ok although then there is the issue of errors made by the program. I didn't ask about the situation in the US with regards to Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.
-- geni _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
On 9/25/06, Rich rich.rr@gmail.com wrote:
Great, I don't mind helping, when I know where and what. An obvious suggestion but do we want to have a wiki to 1) Coordinating download/scans/error checking 2)Upload the pdf's to and 3) store the OCR's and as a base for error checking?
If you are going to go to the trouble of running it through an OCR you might as well upload in text form rather than messing around with PDFs.
Uploading the original PDFs to a publicly accessable website would most likely be a copyright violation, so we wouldn't want to do that anyway. However the originals need to be available somehow (pehaps in a restricted sense) for people to verify the OCR against when marking up (I'm assuming that this is to be going on to wikisource), as an error in a formula would be very hard to spot for a layman
Another question is what to do about about diagrams (assuming that there are some), I would imagine that if the the RS claims copyright of the scans we can't just extract them and use them. Simple ones I imagine we can (and probably should) convert to SVG, but for more detailed ones, that could be tricky.
James
On 25/09/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/25/06, Rich rich.rr@gmail.com wrote:
Great, I don't mind helping, when I know where and what. An obvious suggestion but do we want to have a wiki to 1) Coordinating download/scans/error checking 2)Upload the pdf's to and 3) store the
OCR's
and as a base for error checking?
If you are going to go to the trouble of running it through an OCR you might as well upload in text form rather than messing around with PDFs. -- geni _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
On 26/09/06, James Hardy wikimediauk@weeb.biz wrote:
Uploading the original PDFs to a publicly accessable website would most likely be a copyright violation, so we wouldn't want to do that anyway.
In the UK, not in the US.
Another question is what to do about about diagrams (assuming that there are some), I would imagine that if the the RS claims copyright of the scans we can't just extract them and use them. Simple ones I imagine we can (and probably should) convert to SVG, but for more detailed ones, that could be tricky.
So no-one in the UK should do this, but someone in the US may say "you claim you own a scan of a diagram from 1720 and no-one else can touch it? O rly. Sue and be damned." This is something we would need to be *quite* clear that we were or were not going to say ahead of time, of course.
(Though put like that, it looks very like the National Portrait Gallery issue. Have they ceased the vague attempts at legal intimidation after Jimbo indicated Wikimedia's attitude would in fact be "sue and be damned"?)
cc: to foundation-l on this issue.
- d.
If they have an intention to put stuff online for free-as-in-beer for two months, and then charge people for it later, then I think it is certainly imperative that someone get a private personal archive of absolutely every bit of it, sooner rather than later, and then we can explore the legal status at our leisure.
geni wrote:
On 9/23/06, Scott Keir scottkeir@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2006, at 01:45 am, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Is it really public domain? Or is there copyright in the scans? I ask as the website says:
"The archive will be freely available online until December 2006 and, following this period, will be available as part of Royal Society journal subscription packages or alternatively on a-pay per-view basis."
So presumably, they haven't put online for two months free access the results of goodness-knows-how-much hours of scanning just for people to spider mirror it...?
Scott
Under UK law that could probably be described as a legal grey area. Scans of public domain work may or may not be subject to copyright within the UK. Case law says probably. The limited amount of legal opinion I know about says probably not. It is hard to tell.
I'm happy to spend a bit of time pressing the 'download' button. However, there are lots and lots of PDFs all to be saved, and the PDFs don't seem to be named in a way that indexes them.
I would be much happier spending my time knowing that a) no-one else was duplicating the work I was doing and b) with an idea of any index information I'd need to record for the data to then be useful!
Chris
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Wales" jwales@wikia.com To: wikimediauk-l@Wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Royal Society archives online until December
If they have an intention to put stuff online for free-as-in-beer for two months, and then charge people for it later, then I think it is certainly imperative that someone get a private personal archive of absolutely every bit of it, sooner rather than later, and then we can explore the legal status at our leisure.
geni wrote:
On 9/23/06, Scott Keir scottkeir@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2006, at 01:45 am, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
Is it really public domain? Or is there copyright in the scans? I ask as the website says:
"The archive will be freely available online until December 2006 and, following this period, will be available as part of Royal Society journal subscription packages or alternatively on a-pay per-view basis."
So presumably, they haven't put online for two months free access the results of goodness-knows-how-much hours of scanning just for people to spider mirror it...?
Scott
Under UK law that could probably be described as a legal grey area. Scans of public domain work may or may not be subject to copyright within the UK. Case law says probably. The limited amount of legal opinion I know about says probably not. It is hard to tell.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
At 01:45 +0100 23/9/06, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=1373
Everything back to 1665. Really quite a lot of which is public domain. Get downloading.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5371680.stm
"When Phyllis Peasall, born 100 years ago on Monday, got lost on her way to a party in 1930s London, she set about designing her own street map of the capital. The result - the A-Z - has become a byword for city atlases across the UK."
Nice story!
Gordo
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org