Can WMUK collaborate with WMDE (and others) on this to push it forward? Obviously a lot of good work has already been done, but perhaps it now needs some long term commitment and leadership to ensure that what has been done is made easily accessible, and to work on filling gaps in functionality (covering all aspects of disability).
Michael
WMUK Chair
On 15 Jan 2014, at 09:34, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
How about starting with what a 'ULS' is? That would help :)
On 15 January 2014 08:50, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, One obvious point to start is the functionality of the ULS. It already serves one function for people who have a handicap with their perception. It has the OpenDyslexic font for people with dyslexia. There are multiple ways functionality can be provided who have a visual handicap. The size of the characters can be increased, the colour scheme can be changed (some people only see yellow on white..)
If there is one thing wrong with the ULS, it is not in the functionality but by the utter lack of visibility. ULS is a major component of MediaWiki and it is not given prominence, Truly how are people going to find OpenDyslexic... (we are talking about 7 to 10% of a population)...
Work is done to get more support for webfonts on mobile phones.. It is being developed. Thanks, GerardM
The single biggest problem, Michael, is that when one talks in the abstract, we end up chasing illusory problems that don't actually have any impact. It's very difficult to create systems that are always 100% accessible by all if we start by trying to second-guess what accessibility problems visitors might encounter.
What we need is a well-advertised "clearing centre" where anybody who experiences an accessibility problem on one of our sites can register their problem, which would then allow us to examine it and provide the most effective solution.
I'm quite happy to continue giving advice on the issues covered at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility
and I'd like to see it adopted as default on the WMUK Wiki, but I question the value of volunteers re-inventing the wheel by chasing "gaps" that I'm not at all sure actually exist.
Yes, indeed.
Collaborating to get a well advertised clearing centre running would be a very good first step. But to get over the usual issue that nobody in the community comes forward to point out where the gaps are (which may not be surprising as the people we want to contact here are by definition already excluded from the community) we need outreach to the relevant impairment/disability groups to get their members involved. That is something that the Chapters would be good at, as many such groups/charities are national ones. There are quite a few in the UK, and no doubt more in Germany and elsewhere.
Outreach is what the chapters do!
Best regards
Michael
____________ Michael Maggs Chair, Wikimedia UK
On 15 Jan 2014, at 11:44, rexx rexx@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
The single biggest problem, Michael, is that when one talks in the abstract, we end up chasing illusory problems that don't actually have any impact. It's very difficult to create systems that are always 100% accessible by all if we start by trying to second-guess what accessibility problems visitors might encounter.
What we need is a well-advertised "clearing centre" where anybody who experiences an accessibility problem on one of our sites can register their problem, which would then allow us to examine it and provide the most effective solution.
I'm quite happy to continue giving advice on the issues covered at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility
and I'd like to see it adopted as default on the WMUK Wiki, but I question the value of volunteers re-inventing the wheel by chasing "gaps" that I'm not at all sure actually exist.
-- Doug
On 15 January 2014 11:08, Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote: Can WMUK collaborate with WMDE (and others) on this to push it forward? Obviously a lot of good work has already been done, but perhaps it now needs some long term commitment and leadership to ensure that what has been done is made easily accessible, and to work on filling gaps in functionality (covering all aspects of disability).
Michael
WMUK Chair
On 15 Jan 2014, at 09:34, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
How about starting with what a 'ULS' is? That would help :)
On 15 January 2014 08:50, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, One obvious point to start is the functionality of the ULS. It already serves one function for people who have a handicap with their perception. It has the OpenDyslexic font for people with dyslexia. There are multiple ways functionality can be provided who have a visual handicap. The size of the characters can be increased, the colour scheme can be changed (some people only see yellow on white..)
If there is one thing wrong with the ULS, it is not in the functionality but by the utter lack of visibility. ULS is a major component of MediaWiki and it is not given prominence, Truly how are people going to find OpenDyslexic... (we are talking about 7 to 10% of a population)...
Work is done to get more support for webfonts on mobile phones.. It is being developed. Thanks, GerardM
On 15 January 2014 11:44, rexx rexx@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
I'm quite happy to continue giving advice on the issues covered at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility
and I'd like to see it adopted as default on the WMUK Wiki, but I question the value of volunteers re-inventing the wheel by chasing "gaps" that I'm not at all sure actually exist.
I echo Doug's comments, and have three points and a suggestion to add:
The first step should be to ask WMF what work is already in hand.
Accessibility professionals always recommend testing sites (or planned changes to them with a variety of real users, who have a range of disabilities, and who use a variety of assistive tools.
The biggest barrier in my experience is community resistance to accessibility improvements (witness the alt text issue referred to on the parallel discussion on the WMUK wiki, where alt text descriptions of images were deemed "too subjective" and "unverifiable").
I suggest we ask Bruce Lawson, accessibility and web standards advocate (disclosure; and a personal friend) with Opera (the browser vendor) to review Wikipedia and one to two sister sites, and give a talk at Wikimania (or, if he's not available, to recommend someone who can).
Thanks Andy.
Step One I took earlier this week. Expecting a response any minute now which I will share. I am very encouraged by what I hear and know we have a few really capable people who can identify the issues, work with others and come up with a sensible plan.
Jon
On 15 January 2014 12:39, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 15 January 2014 11:44, rexx rexx@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
I'm quite happy to continue giving advice on the issues covered at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility
and I'd like to see it adopted as default on the WMUK Wiki, but I
question
the value of volunteers re-inventing the wheel by chasing "gaps" that I'm not at all sure actually exist.
I echo Doug's comments, and have three points and a suggestion to add:
The first step should be to ask WMF what work is already in hand.
Accessibility professionals always recommend testing sites (or planned changes to them with a variety of real users, who have a range of disabilities, and who use a variety of assistive tools.
The biggest barrier in my experience is community resistance to accessibility improvements (witness the alt text issue referred to on the parallel discussion on the WMUK wiki, where alt text descriptions of images were deemed "too subjective" and "unverifiable").
I suggest we ask Bruce Lawson, accessibility and web standards advocate (disclosure; and a personal friend) with Opera (the browser vendor) to review Wikipedia and one to two sister sites, and give a talk at Wikimania (or, if he's not available, to recommend someone who can).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Hoi, I am talking with the Polish chapter to extend the functionality of the OpenDyslexic font ... I am waiting for their GO/NOGO. Thanks, GerardM
On 15 January 2014 12:08, Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Can WMUK collaborate with WMDE (and others) on this to push it forward? Obviously a lot of good work has already been done, but perhaps it now needs some long term commitment and leadership to ensure that what has been done is made easily accessible, and to work on filling gaps in functionality (covering all aspects of disability).
Michael
WMUK Chair
On 15 Jan 2014, at 09:34, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
How about starting with what a 'ULS' is? That would help :)
On 15 January 2014 08:50, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, One obvious point to start is the functionality of the ULS. It already serves one function for people who have a handicap with their
perception.
It has the OpenDyslexic font for people with dyslexia. There are
multiple
ways functionality can be provided who have a visual handicap. The size
of
the characters can be increased, the colour scheme can be changed (some people only see yellow on white..)
If there is one thing wrong with the ULS, it is not in the functionality but by the utter lack of visibility. ULS is a major component of
MediaWiki
and it is not given prominence, Truly how are people going to find OpenDyslexic... (we are talking about 7 to 10% of a population)...
Work is done to get more support for webfonts on mobile phones.. It is being developed. Thanks, GerardM
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Some of you may not now but there is one Visually impaired editor on the Hindi Wikipedia by the name Anirudha, perhaps it would be useful to get in touch with him and get more feedback.
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi, I am talking with the Polish chapter to extend the functionality of the OpenDyslexic font ... I am waiting for their GO/NOGO. Thanks, GerardM
On 15 January 2014 12:08, Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Can WMUK collaborate with WMDE (and others) on this to push it forward? Obviously a lot of good work has already been done, but perhaps it now needs some long term commitment and leadership to ensure that what has
been
done is made easily accessible, and to work on filling gaps in functionality (covering all aspects of disability).
Michael
WMUK Chair
On 15 Jan 2014, at 09:34, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
How about starting with what a 'ULS' is? That would help :)
On 15 January 2014 08:50, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, One obvious point to start is the functionality of the ULS. It already serves one function for people who have a handicap with their
perception.
It has the OpenDyslexic font for people with dyslexia. There are
multiple
ways functionality can be provided who have a visual handicap. The
size
of
the characters can be increased, the colour scheme can be changed
(some
people only see yellow on white..)
If there is one thing wrong with the ULS, it is not in the
functionality
but by the utter lack of visibility. ULS is a major component of
MediaWiki
and it is not given prominence, Truly how are people going to find OpenDyslexic... (we are talking about 7 to 10% of a population)...
Work is done to get more support for webfonts on mobile phones.. It is being developed. Thanks, GerardM
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On the English Wikipedia, Graham Pearce ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Graham87) is unfailingly helpful. He is an admin who is very familiar with the problems for visually-impaired users as he has been blind since birth and uses the JAWS screen reader to edit Wikipedia. I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning how valuable he is when testing possible solutions to problems.
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org