One of the first things the new board will need to do is find a solicitor to go over the governing documents with, so I thought I'd ask: Does anyone know a good solicitor that specialises in charity law? In particular, who did v1.0 use and would they recommend them?
http://www.solicitors.co.uk/charitylaw/1/ is a Start gives a list of every law area possilbe and also gives a list of the solicitors who specialised in it.
Chris
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:44:41 +0100 From: thomas.dalton@gmail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Solicitors - Request for recommendations
One of the first things the new board will need to do is find a solicitor to go over the governing documents with, so I thought I'd ask: Does anyone know a good solicitor that specialises in charity law? In particular, who did v1.0 use and would they recommend them?
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2008/9/18 Chris Wood hot20024@hotmail.com:
http://www.solicitors.co.uk/charitylaw/1/ is a Start gives a list of every law area possilbe and also gives a list of the solicitors who specialised in it.
Yeah, I was looking at that before I sent the email and found it less than helpful. Solicitors seem to lack useful websites giving simple things like fees in an easy to find place...
They usually charge you for their services. Some charge upto £25 for answering your question over the phone but most solicitors are legally binded to give you 30 minutes free legal advice before they charge you. My nans friend is a solicitor and he says that they charge for things such as answering the telephone and also writing letters and responding to letters and be glad your not hiring a barrister as they charge a minimum of £95 an hour.
Chris
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:09:09 +0100 From: thomas.dalton@gmail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Solicitors - Request for recommendations
2008/9/18 Chris Wood hot20024@hotmail.com:
http://www.solicitors.co.uk/charitylaw/1/ is a Start gives a list of every law area possilbe and also gives a list of the solicitors who specialised in it.
Yeah, I was looking at that before I sent the email and found it less than helpful. Solicitors seem to lack useful websites giving simple things like fees in an easy to find place...
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2008/9/18 Chris Wood hot20024@hotmail.com:
They usually charge you for their services. Some charge upto £25 for answering your question over the phone but most solicitors are legally binded to give you 30 minutes free legal advice before they charge you. My nans friend is a solicitor and he says that they charge for things such as answering the telephone and also writing letters and responding to letters and be glad your not hiring a barrister as they charge a minimum of £95 an hour.
We're looking for advice (desirable, but not essential) and someone to sign off on the application (a legal requirement). The former we may be able to get for free (as you say, you can usually get 30 minutes free advice, although I don't know if that applies to corporate matters), the latter I would expect we need to pay for whoever we get (it involves writing something down - I believe that almost always results in a fee). Since we need someone to sign the application, we may as well try and make it someone that can offer useful advice as well. Also, we're likely to require legal advice at some point in the future (WM DE have been sued what, 4 times so far? And that's just issues that have actually gone to court), so it would be good to have a professional to turn to and not need to find one in a hurry.
We can afford reasonable set up costs, the board can fund them out of their own pockets and get reimbursed out of the first membership fees. We have 28 people interested in being supporting members. Assuming half of them actually sign up and a membership fee of £10 (both conservative estimates), that's £140 straight off. I think the application itself costs £30, that leaves £110 to pay a solicitor - hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses (I'm just guessing what they're likely to charge - none of their websites seem to include minor details like costs...). I'm happy to sub the chapter £140 for the few months it will take to get the fees in.
If it costs more than £140 then you can tell the solicitor its not worth it unless they are going to give you advice before signing the document.
There is a woman that I have been looking into her background and she seems to know what she is talking about her email address is belinda.pratten@ncvo-vol.org.uk < belinda.pratten@ncvo-vol.org.uk> and the website that she is on is http://www.ncvo-vol.org.uk/policy/index.asp?id=1136 which has a section on charity law with different sections leading off.
Chris
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:01:43 +0100 From: thomas.dalton@gmail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Solicitors - Request for recommendations
2008/9/18 Chris Wood hot20024@hotmail.com:
They usually charge you for their services. Some charge upto £25 for answering your question over the phone but most solicitors are legally binded to give you 30 minutes free legal advice before they charge you. My nans friend is a solicitor and he says that they charge for things such as answering the telephone and also writing letters and responding to letters and be glad your not hiring a barrister as they charge a minimum of £95 an hour.
We're looking for advice (desirable, but not essential) and someone to sign off on the application (a legal requirement). The former we may be able to get for free (as you say, you can usually get 30 minutes free advice, although I don't know if that applies to corporate matters), the latter I would expect we need to pay for whoever we get (it involves writing something down - I believe that almost always results in a fee). Since we need someone to sign the application, we may as well try and make it someone that can offer useful advice as well. Also, we're likely to require legal advice at some point in the future (WM DE have been sued what, 4 times so far? And that's just issues that have actually gone to court), so it would be good to have a professional to turn to and not need to find one in a hurry.
We can afford reasonable set up costs, the board can fund them out of their own pockets and get reimbursed out of the first membership fees. We have 28 people interested in being supporting members. Assuming half of them actually sign up and a membership fee of £10 (both conservative estimates), that's £140 straight off. I think the application itself costs £30, that leaves £110 to pay a solicitor - hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses (I'm just guessing what they're likely to charge - none of their websites seem to include minor details like costs...). I'm happy to sub the chapter £140 for the few months it will take to get the fees in. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
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2008/9/18 Chris Wood hot20024@hotmail.com:
If it costs more than £140 then you can tell the solicitor its not worth it unless they are going to give you advice before signing the document.
One solicitor (http://www.wrigleys.co.uk/documents/publications/publication_145.pdf) estimates total setup costs (including registering with the charities commission) at £2,500-£3,500 +VAT. That sounds outrageous to me, and I hope most firms charge much more reasonable amounts. I've emailed another firm asking about their fees, which should give us a better idea of what typical costs are.
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
We're looking for advice (desirable, but not essential) and someone to sign off on the application (a legal requirement). The former we may be able to get for free (as you say, you can usually get 30 minutes free advice, although I don't know if that applies to corporate matters), the latter I would expect we need to pay for whoever we get (it involves writing something down - I believe that almost always results in a fee). Since we need someone to sign the application, we may as well try and make it someone that can offer useful advice as well. Also, we're likely to require legal advice at some point in the future (WM DE have been sued what, 4 times so far? And that's just issues that have actually gone to court), so it would be good to have a professional to turn to and not need to find one in a hurry.
We can afford reasonable set up costs, the board can fund them out of their own pockets and get reimbursed out of the first membership fees. We have 28 people interested in being supporting members. Assuming half of them actually sign up and a membership fee of £10 (both conservative estimates), that's £140 straight off. I think the application itself costs £30, that leaves £110 to pay a solicitor - hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses (I'm just guessing what they're likely to charge - none of their websites seem to include minor details like costs...). I'm happy to sub the chapter £140 for the few months it will take to get the fees in.
One presumes WMF's offer to assist with setup costs may still stand as well?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Sam Korn smoddy@gmail.com wrote:
One presumes WMF's offer to assist with setup costs may still stand as well?
As a matter of general caution, I would suggest you not rely on this offer as your only means for success. Try your damndest to secure your own monies for this first, before asking the WMF for aide.
--Andrew Whitworth
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Andrew Whitworth wknight8111@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Sam Korn smoddy@gmail.com wrote:
One presumes WMF's offer to assist with setup costs may still stand as well?
As a matter of general caution, I would suggest you not rely on this offer as your only means for success. Try your damndest to secure your own monies for this first, before asking the WMF for aide.
But of course.
One presumes WMF's offer to assist with setup costs may still stand as well?
If it comes down it to it, we can always go cap in hand to the WMF, yes, but I think if we need to there's a problem. If the chapter can't do enough fundraising to cover it's setup costs in a reasonable amount of time and reimburse the board, then we need to reconsider the whole thing. If we need to go to the WMF for setup costs, where are we going to get the money to actually do anything?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 16:14, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
One presumes WMF's offer to assist with setup costs may still stand as well?
If it comes down it to it, we can always go cap in hand to the WMF, yes, but I think if we need to there's a problem. If the chapter can't do enough fundraising to cover it's setup costs in a reasonable amount of time and reimburse the board, then we need to reconsider the whole thing. If we need to go to the WMF for setup costs, where are we going to get the money to actually do anything?
And that should be the right set of mind.
This said, I reiterate here that especially in terms of legal advice (or financial advice re: Bank account), the Foundation will be happy to chip in. WMF has worked, works or will work with pro-bono firms in the legal field that should be able to provide some legal advice.
That is the one field, I'd say, where you shouldn't let yourself be stopped by prices. Sound advice now will save everyone (including WMF) money and time down the line. It might even bring lots of money in faster than we think ;)
Delphine
2008/9/19 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 16:14, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
One presumes WMF's offer to assist with setup costs may still stand as well?
If it comes down it to it, we can always go cap in hand to the WMF, yes, but I think if we need to there's a problem. If the chapter can't do enough fundraising to cover it's setup costs in a reasonable amount of time and reimburse the board, then we need to reconsider the whole thing. If we need to go to the WMF for setup costs, where are we going to get the money to actually do anything?
And that should be the right set of mind.
This said, I reiterate here that especially in terms of legal advice (or financial advice re: Bank account), the Foundation will be happy to chip in. WMF has worked, works or will work with pro-bono firms in the legal field that should be able to provide some legal advice.
If you have contacts with pro-bono firms in the UK, we would very much like to hear about it. Obviously, US legal advice is of very limited use.
That is the one field, I'd say, where you shouldn't let yourself be stopped by prices. Sound advice now will save everyone (including WMF) money and time down the line. It might even bring lots of money in faster than we think ;)
That's certainly my thinking. I want to make sure we get all the governing documents just right so everything is in place from the start. Changing even the smallest thing once we're set up and especially once we're registered with the charities commission, involves a lot of paperwork and we're not guaranteed to be allowed to make the changes.
2008/9/18 Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com:
On Thu, September 18, 2008 15:01, Thomas Dalton wrote:
someone to sign off on the application (a legal requirement).
Not sure where you get that from, but not true. The only legally-binding thing is to get the Swears done, which are about a fiver a time.
"Form 12 This is the declaration of Compliance with the Companies Act 1985 in respect of the registration. Once the Memorandum and Articles of Association (see below) have been completed, this must be signed in the presence of a Solicitor, Commissioner for Oaths, Notary Public or Justice of the Peace." (http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/companyRegistration.shtml)
Is that what you mean by "the Swears"? I have no idea what it costs, having never done it before, but it requires going to a solicitor, which is what I'm talking about (perhaps "sign off" wasn't the best choice of words, but they have to sign the application). If we're going to visit a solicitor (and presumably give them money), it might as well be a solicitor than can actually advise us.
On Thu, September 18, 2008 16:28, Thomas Dalton wrote:
2008/9/18 Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com:
On Thu, September 18, 2008 15:01, Thomas Dalton wrote:
someone to sign off on the application (a legal requirement).
Not sure where you get that from, but not true. The only legally-binding thing is to get the Swears done, which are about a fiver a time.
"Form 12 This is the declaration of Compliance with the Companies Act 1985 in respect of the registration. Once the Memorandum and Articles of Association (see below) have been completed, this must be signed in the presence of a Solicitor, Commissioner for Oaths, Notary Public or Justice of the Peace." (http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/companyRegistration.shtml)
Is that what you mean by "the Swears"? I have no idea what it costs, having never done it before, but it requires going to a solicitor, which is what I'm talking about (perhaps "sign off" wasn't the best choice of words, but they have to sign the application). If we're going to visit a solicitor (and presumably give them money), it might as well be a solicitor than can actually advise us.
Yes. A "Swear" is the usual shortened form of "Swear on Oath" and should cost £5 or so for each one. Although some Notaries are Solicitors, not all Solicitors are Notaries. It is the required way of certifying documents and takes but a couple of minutes.
Alison
It is always possible someone here know someone (directly or indirectly) that will be qualified and willing to do it for free...
KTC
2008/9/18 Kwan Ting Chan ktc@ktchan.info:
It is always possible someone here know someone (directly or indirectly) that will be qualified and willing to do it for free...
That would be the best kind of recommendation, certainly!
2008/9/18 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses
Nope. One of the reasons I've been bringing up the geographical issue a lot is that realistically were are unlikely to be able to cover travel expenses in the first few years.
If you are not in the same city as the other board memebers you could end up racking up say £200 in travel costs.
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:05 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
2008/9/18 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses
Nope. One of the reasons I've been bringing up the geographical issue a lot is that realistically were are unlikely to be able to cover travel expenses in the first few years.
If you are not in the same city as the other board memebers you could end up racking up say £200 in travel costs.
A good strategy for meetings, at least early in the chapter's development, is going to include telecommunications like IRC or teleconferencing. Getting your own wiki, your own moderated IRC chatroom and your own mailinglist (covered!) are key in this regard. Also, you should be relatively liberal at first in defining a quorum for in-person meetings, since monetary considerations may prevent large majorities from attending.
When we were planning for Wikimedia PA, we specifically said a quorum at a general meeting could be met through simultaneous telecommunications, or members who are acting via proxy or who have specifically waived their ability to attend in writing. This way business can still proceed as normal and you don't have to worry so much about expensive travel arrangements.
--Andrew Whitworth
On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 18:05 +0100, geni wrote:
2008/9/18 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses
Nope. One of the reasons I've been bringing up the geographical issue a lot is that realistically were are unlikely to be able to cover travel expenses in the first few years.
If you are not in the same city as the other board memebers you could end up racking up say £200 in travel costs.
Few years? How many face to face meeting are you anticipating, and how little in terms of income do you expect the organisation to get (assuming it get through setting up etc. okay to last a few years)?
KTC
2008/9/18 Kwan Ting Chan ktc@ktchan.info:
On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 18:05 +0100, geni wrote:
2008/9/18 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
hopefully there will even be something left over for travel expenses
Nope. One of the reasons I've been bringing up the geographical issue a lot is that realistically were are unlikely to be able to cover travel expenses in the first few years.
If you are not in the same city as the other board memebers you could end up racking up say £200 in travel costs.
Few years? How many face to face meeting are you anticipating, and how little in terms of income do you expect the organisation to get (assuming it get through setting up etc. okay to last a few years)?
KTC
After setup costs I expect income in the first year to be zero or negative. Second year I expect income probably would cover travel expenses but if it did little left over for anything else. Path beyond that is tricky to predict. WMDE has certain advantages (such as the language barrier) that WMUK will not.
After setup costs I expect income in the first year to be zero or negative. Second year I expect income probably would cover travel expenses but if it did little left over for anything else. Path beyond that is tricky to predict. WMDE has certain advantages (such as the language barrier) that WMUK will not.
That's an extremely pessimistic outlook. Why are you bothering to take part if that's what you think? If we can't make any money in the first year, how will we make it in future years? And if we're not making any money, what's the point in having a chapter? We won't be able to do anything we couldn't do now.
2008/9/18 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
After setup costs I expect income in the first year to be zero or negative. Second year I expect income probably would cover travel expenses but if it did little left over for anything else. Path beyond that is tricky to predict. WMDE has certain advantages (such as the language barrier) that WMUK will not.
That's an extremely pessimistic outlook. Why are you bothering to take part if that's what you think? If we can't make any money in the first year, how will we make it in future years? And if we're not making any money, what's the point in having a chapter? We won't be able to do anything we couldn't do now.
Can be useful by being able to use the name. There are quite a selection of things that can be done on zero budget or by using single event budgets. Money issues should sort themselves as the organization gets bigger but I don't think that is going to be a fast process.
Travel expenses can get considerable very fast dropping them on WMUK would probably be a fairly effective way to kill it.
I would tend to characterise myself as a realist. Sure it would be nice if WMUK took off fast but what are you going to do if it doesn't? Do you have a fall back option to run on near zero budgets? It's about keeping expected costs as low as possible so that you can use what resources you do have to cover absolute necessities and unexpected costs. When WMUK has brought in 1K a year and mean brought in not looks like it is going to bring in but actual money in the bank brought in then things like travel expenses can be considered.
At the moment we have less than 100 people of all types interested at all and that is with the first flush of newness. We are ultimately working from a weak position. As long as we accept that we can succeed but if we fail to accept that and start racking up costs fast we will simply find another way of failing.
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
That's an extremely pessimistic outlook. Why are you bothering to take part if that's what you think? If we can't make any money in the first year, how will we make it in future years? And if we're not making any money, what's the point in having a chapter? We won't be able to do anything we couldn't do now.
That is, I think, a bit of a pessimistic view as well. Money isn't everything, and much of what you will get out of the chapter is prestige. You'll be able to go into a school or university or government building and say "I represent Wikimedia UK and I would like to work together with you for the benefit of open content and open education". It sure beats saying "I go on Wikipedia some days after work, can I take some pictures of your stuff to put on the internet?". Don't rely too much on money, some of your most creative ideas might stem from a lack of it.
--Andrew whitworth
2008/9/18 Andrew Whitworth wknight8111@gmail.com:
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
That's an extremely pessimistic outlook. Why are you bothering to take part if that's what you think? If we can't make any money in the first year, how will we make it in future years? And if we're not making any money, what's the point in having a chapter? We won't be able to do anything we couldn't do now.
That is, I think, a bit of a pessimistic view as well. Money isn't everything, and much of what you will get out of the chapter is prestige. You'll be able to go into a school or university or government building and say "I represent Wikimedia UK and I would like to work together with you for the benefit of open content and open education". It sure beats saying "I go on Wikipedia some days after work, can I take some pictures of your stuff to put on the internet?". Don't rely too much on money, some of your most creative ideas might stem from a lack of it.
If that's all you want, we can do it in five minutes. We just need to set up an association (which is far easier than forming a limited company), get a quick agreement set up with the WMF and we're done. You don't even really need that - "I'm a Wikipedia admin" opens quite a few doors if you're careful not to explain what that really means.
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
If that's all you want, we can do it in five minutes. We just need to set up an association (which is far easier than forming a limited company), get a quick agreement set up with the WMF and we're done. You don't even really need that - "I'm a Wikipedia admin" opens quite a few doors if you're careful not to explain what that really means.
Not all, my point is just that money isn't everything and there are things you can do that don't require any. Having a limited corporation are also going to help you take donations of things with monetary value but that aren't money, such as copyrighted materials. You'll also be able to form "official" partnerships with other open-content or open-education groups, interact with government, etc. Money is nice, but not having any isn't the worst thing in the world.
--Andrew Whitworth
2008/9/18 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
If that's all you want, we can do it in five minutes. We just need to set up an association (which is far easier than forming a limited company), get a quick agreement set up with the WMF and we're done. You don't even really need that - "I'm a Wikipedia admin" opens quite a few doors if you're careful not to explain what that really means.
Lot that can be done with a little money from picking up rareish books to getting our hands on useful equipment (do you know anyone who owns a film scanner? you can get them for about £50).
The other thing is that I think it will grow. I just expect a couple of lean years early on.
2008/9/18 geni geniice@gmail.com:
Lot that can be done with a little money from picking up rareish books to getting our hands on useful equipment (do you know anyone who owns a film scanner? you can get them for about £50).
£50? oooh. Where? (I have two boxes of photos I intend to put up on Commons.)
- d.
2008/9/18 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
2008/9/18 geni geniice@gmail.com:
Lot that can be done with a little money from picking up rareish books to getting our hands on useful equipment (do you know anyone who owns a film scanner? you can get them for about £50).
£50? oooh. Where? (I have two boxes of photos I intend to put up on Commons.)
Not a good scanner but if you pay more you could get better:
http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/5748001/Digital-Film-and-Slid...
Our experince from WMSE starting a chapter a year ago. Our interim comitte (four persons) started without any IRL meeting, and all communcaion throught Skype.
For the first four months we had a budget of around 400 punds, from member fees and small doantions. This money was used up by the AGM metting (free coffe and a bun to all participating!) and basic markting material (a brochure, some posters, some buttons). The first steering comitte of six only communciated by Skype and some occational meeting person by person. We concentrated the first couple of month to get all fomalities in place (wiki, all docuemts to the authorities etc). After about six month we were fully operational and also active in marketing activites etc And with new mebers fees dropping in, donations, and grants from funds our finances have been sound since then. And we will have our first real planning day when all participate IRL 13 month after startup. We have never payed any travel money for us to meet, but we do pay travels occationally when someone attends a marketing acitivity Anders
At 17:55 -0400 18/9/08, Andrew Whitworth wrote:
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
That's an extremely pessimistic outlook. Why are you bothering to take part if that's what you think? If we can't make any money in the first year, how will we make it in future years? And if we're not making any money, what's the point in having a chapter? We won't be able to do anything we couldn't do now.
That is, I think, a bit of a pessimistic view as well. Money isn't everything, and much of what you will get out of the chapter is prestige. You'll be able to go into a school or university or government building and say "I represent Wikimedia UK and I would like to work together with you for the benefit of open content and open education". It sure beats saying "I go on Wikipedia some days after work, can I take some pictures of your stuff to put on the internet?". Don't rely too much on money, some of your most creative ideas might stem from a lack of it.
--Andrew whitworth
Indeed. But the servers cost real hard cash though... (I believe that there is some support in kind as well, for the Squids?)
Gordo
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 19:36, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
After setup costs I expect income in the first year to be zero or negative. Second year I expect income probably would cover travel expenses but if it did little left over for anything else. Path beyond that is tricky to predict. WMDE has certain advantages (such as the language barrier) that WMUK will not.
I am fairly sure your assessment is utterly wrong. If one looks at the figures of Wikimedia fundraisers so far, Wikimedia UK can count on an income of several thousand pounds in the first year, all it takes is a bank account.
My experience is that people are always much happier to give "home" (ie. in the UK) because it's easier/cheaper/cooler. So while the lack of tax-deductibility status might hinder the first year, I am convinced that Wikimedia UK will start off with a lot of money. Actually, you should be ready for it and start thinkng about cool projects to channel donations asap.
Delphine
2008/9/19 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
Actually, you should be ready for it and start thinkng about cool projects to channel donations asap.
I think that is planned to start ~oct 1st.
On Fri, September 19, 2008 09:46, Delphine Ménard wrote:
My experience is that people are always much happier to give "home" (ie. in the UK) because it's easier/cheaper/cooler. So while the lack of tax-deductibility status might hinder the first year, I am convinced that Wikimedia UK will start off with a lot of money. Actually, you should be ready for it and start thinkng about cool projects to channel donations asap.
This.
We we were just starting to get WMUK going a year or two back we were approached by the Charities Aid Foundation completely out of the blue. They act as intermediaries between donors small and large and the organisations the donors want to give to. Though we were given no details at all of what might be on offer to us we tried very hard to get the bank to be in a position to cash their cheque we couldn't and, in the end, I believe the WMF got involved instead and I heard no more about it.
I've talked with more than a few business leader types about what they could do for/with WMUK. Just don't think small ...
Alison
Alison,
I wish you had said something then:
Our charity's bye-laws allow us to support education projects like Wikipedia and it is very likely we could have received the funds and given them to you without deductions. This would give us the legal responsibility for ensuring the funds are spent as advertised etc but we would have been able to manage that. The charity world isn't quite like the business world. For example we have an international policy always to help and train other NGOs with aligned aims (unlike say Shell, who don't teach BP how they find oil)...we give a lot of training in the field to all sorts of people we have to compete with in fundraising. Even more bizarre we are one of the guarantor members of UNICEF UK, despite waving different cans in the high street.
I agree WMUK has very considerable fund-raising potential. And as I have said we are happy to help. I am too conflicted to be a board member but look forward to helping whoever we elect.
Andrew
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com wrote:
On Fri, September 19, 2008 09:46, Delphine Ménard wrote:
My experience is that people are always much happier to give "home" (ie. in the UK) because it's easier/cheaper/cooler. So while the lack of tax-deductibility status might hinder the first year, I am convinced that Wikimedia UK will start off with a lot of money. Actually, you should be ready for it and start thinkng about cool projects to channel donations asap.
This.
We we were just starting to get WMUK going a year or two back we were approached by the Charities Aid Foundation completely out of the blue. They act as intermediaries between donors small and large and the organisations the donors want to give to. Though we were given no details at all of what might be on offer to us we tried very hard to get the bank to be in a position to cash their cheque we couldn't and, in the end, I believe the WMF got involved instead and I heard no more about it.
I've talked with more than a few business leader types about what they could do for/with WMUK. Just don't think small ...
Alison
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
My experience is that people are always much happier to give "home" (ie. in the UK) because it's easier/cheaper/cooler. So while the lack of tax-deductibility status might hinder the first year, I am convinced that Wikimedia UK will start off with a lot of money. Actually, you should be ready for it and start thinkng about cool projects to channel donations asap.
If nothing goes wrong (and I can't see why it would), tax deductibility will take about 2 weeks after incorporation. Registering with the charities commission takes longer, but that isn't required for the tax status, it's just required if you want to keep the status after your annual income goes over £5000.
On Thu, September 18, 2008 13:44, Thomas Dalton wrote:
One of the first things the new board will need to do is find a solicitor to go over the governing documents with, so I thought I'd ask: Does anyone know a good solicitor that specialises in charity law? In particular, who did v1.0 use and would they recommend them?
From long experience of writing company setup documents and contract law I
was the one who gave the draft AoA and MoA a good 'going over', indeed it was because I spotted so many pitfalls and liabilities and told the meeting (which was otherwise about to accept them) why they were so dangerous/bad that I got put into the position of Chair and redrafted them!
We also didn't have the cash available (such services are not cheap) even if we had have thought it was useful (just as with getting an accountant to do your tax return, they aren't liable, you are) so I then used my family solicitors (one of the major regionals) for the Swear and that was all.
One thing: just about all 'service businesses', like Solicitors, etc, tend to be a bit like boxed software. They don't really understand how you want to do things so will try to only talk about what they actually know. And as we all know, the Wikimedia ethos is like nothing people have seen before and tend to rarely understand ;-P
Alison
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org