Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod
Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and the collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a curator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the museum to make a copy.
I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue on Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images. Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
WSC
On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18, rod@rodspace.co.uk rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Rod, I'd be happy to help with a call/video meeting, or to run the modest-sized batch upload when they are ready. The numbers mentioned may take just a day or two to upload. At this moment I'm the most active Commons uploader of GLAM media, the can see examples at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Project_list
As Jonathan implies, the upload itself may be a bit technically challenging, but is not especially intellectually challenging for the institution. The hard part is the early spadework; examining the collection and ensuring that the metadata is reliably consistent, working out how to do some auto-categorization without potentially 'spamming' Commons categories, that the best use is made of Commons templates by intelligently mapping metadata to fields, and that the various copyright scenarios are hammered out in advance.
The last issue of copyright may be as simple as applying the no-copyright-known template, or it may need a bit of programmer magic to automatically map copyright licenses based on metadata, and weed out images that may be challenged under our strict Commons policies of there being "no significant doubt". It's better to have those discussions early, rather than have multiple deletion requests to manage downstream.
Fae
Thanks Fae,
If this does come off and you have a residue of awkward to categorise ones I might be available to sort them out if you can get them in a separate temporary category. I helped WMIE with Wiki Loves monuments last year and have nearly finshed the English residue of this years Wiki Loves Monuments.
On 14 October 2016 at 12:29, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Rod, I'd be happy to help with a call/video meeting, or to run the modest-sized batch upload when they are ready. The numbers mentioned may take just a day or two to upload. At this moment I'm the most active Commons uploader of GLAM media, the can see examples at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Project_list
As Jonathan implies, the upload itself may be a bit technically challenging, but is not especially intellectually challenging for the institution. The hard part is the early spadework; examining the collection and ensuring that the metadata is reliably consistent, working out how to do some auto-categorization without potentially 'spamming' Commons categories, that the best use is made of Commons templates by intelligently mapping metadata to fields, and that the various copyright scenarios are hammered out in advance.
The last issue of copyright may be as simple as applying the no-copyright-known template, or it may need a bit of programmer magic to automatically map copyright licenses based on metadata, and weed out images that may be challenged under our strict Commons policies of there being "no significant doubt". It's better to have those discussions early, rather than have multiple deletion requests to manage downstream.
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and
the
collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a
curator
who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the
museum
to make a copy.
I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue
on
Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images. Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which
stuff
can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
WSC
On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18, rod@rodspace.co.uk rod@rodspace.co.uk
wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/
)
aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe
there
have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them
in
touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under
a
suitable licence?
Rod
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks to everyone for the advice and links.
I guessed this sort of thing wouldn’t be as easy as one might hope.
If they get back to me I now have some pointers to give them and excellent people to put them in touch with.
Rod
From: Wikimediauk-l [mailto:wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of WereSpielChequers Sent: 14 October 2016 15:50 To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert
Thanks Fae,
If this does come off and you have a residue of awkward to categorise ones I might be available to sort them out if you can get them in a separate temporary category. I helped WMIE with Wiki Loves monuments last year and have nearly finshed the English residue of this years Wiki Loves Monuments.
On 14 October 2016 at 12:29, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Rod, I'd be happy to help with a call/video meeting, or to run the modest-sized batch upload when they are ready. The numbers mentioned may take just a day or two to upload. At this moment I'm the most active Commons uploader of GLAM media, the can see examples at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Project_list
As Jonathan implies, the upload itself may be a bit technically challenging, but is not especially intellectually challenging for the institution. The hard part is the early spadework; examining the collection and ensuring that the metadata is reliably consistent, working out how to do some auto-categorization without potentially 'spamming' Commons categories, that the best use is made of Commons templates by intelligently mapping metadata to fields, and that the various copyright scenarios are hammered out in advance.
The last issue of copyright may be as simple as applying the no-copyright-known template, or it may need a bit of programmer magic to automatically map copyright licenses based on metadata, and weed out images that may be challenged under our strict Commons policies of there being "no significant doubt". It's better to have those discussions early, rather than have multiple deletion requests to manage downstream.
Fae -- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and the collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a curator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the museum to make a copy.
I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue on Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images. Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
WSC
On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18, rod@rodspace.co.uk rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Could they not be declared orphan works if there was some due diligence done to establish that the original authors could not be found? Couldn't you argue that the authorisation for making a copy of the originals produced a new copyright which was held by the museum? Presumably if someone's grandfather left them the collection, it's their copyright to release, but if a copy of the image was made in 1970 then surely the copyright on that copy is the museum's? I've been trying to understand copyright for years now and it's still a bit of a mystery to me. Especially with photos it seems flexible to an extent.
On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and the collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a curator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the museum to make a copy.
I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue on Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images. Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
WSC
On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18, rod@rodspace.co.uk rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
A really useful and under recognized part of Wikimedia Commons are the more detailed deletion request discussions, and the supporting policies, guidelines and essays for interpreting copyright.
It's worth reading through [1:Licencing], though I find [2:Copyright rules by territory] a constantly useful reference, which is updated frequently as the law changes in different countries.
Unfortunately "orphan works" is a difficult area for copyright, made a lot worse by having to worry about publication rights, which can add decades of copyright protection to otherwise extremely old or works with unknown authors which should otherwise be public domain. In a recent discussion there were examples of UK works as old as 1860s that had legitimate copyright claims.
If there's an area of copyright that interests you, it can really help Commons to follow the copyright noticeboard [3] and participate in some deletion request discussions. Asking questions and testing your own understanding of the policies and UK copyright legislation would quickly make you a valued participant. Getting the balance right of what constitutes "significant doubt" and cases where the research done is sufficient to keep an image on Commons within the law, even if much remains unknown, is a constant challenge and one where there is a real shortage of UK specific understanding and viewpoints.
Once the UK leaves Europe, there's likely to be a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation of how we comply with EU legislation. I have no doubt that volunteers interested and following the nuts and bolts of changes in UK copyright law will be much in demand. I never thought that I would be referenced as being knowledgeable in UK and US military related copyright. :-)
Links: 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_territory 3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright
Fae
On 15 October 2016 at 13:25, leutha@fabiant.eu wrote:
Hi all,
There was some discussion of orphan works in Wikimedia UK when the new legislation was introduced in May 2015. Please check government guidance in this. Unfortunately the new regulations are not very favourable to us. Arguing that creating exact copies created a new copyright would be counterproductive as regards the use of non-orphan work that has become public domain and copied by whoever.
all the best
Fabian
aka Leutha
On 15 October 2016 at 13:06 John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Could they not be declared orphan works if there was some due diligence done to establish that the original authors could not be found? Couldn't you argue that the authorisation for making a copy of the originals produced a new copyright which was held by the museum? Presumably if someone's grandfather left them the collection, it's their copyright to release, but if a copy of the image was made in 1970 then surely the copyright on that copy is the museum's? I've been trying to understand copyright for years now and it's still a bit of a mystery to me. Especially with photos it seems flexible to an extent.
On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and the collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a curator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the museum to make a copy.
I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue on Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images. Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
WSC
On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18, rod@rodspace.co.uk rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod
On 15 October 2016 at 14:08 Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
If there's an area of copyright that interests you, it can really help
Commons to follow the copyright noticeboard [3] and participate in some deletion request discussions. Asking questions and testing your own understanding of the policies and UK copyright legislation would quickly make you a valued participant. Getting the balance right of what constitutes "significant doubt" and cases where the research done is sufficient to keep an image on Commons within the law, even if much remains unknown, is a constant challenge and one where there is a real shortage of UK specific understanding and viewpoints.
I should certainly argue that WMUK would benefit from the development of its own IP materials.
Charles
On 14/10/16 08:18, rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all, I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
Similar projects (small and large) can be found under the umbrella of the "Community Archives and Heritage Group"
http://www.communityarchives.org.uk/
The 2016 Annual Award overall winner was the Dartmoor Trust.
Gordo
This, perhaps? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/GLAMpipe
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:18 AM rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
YES! Excellent :)
On 14 October 2016 at 09:38, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com wrote:
This, perhaps? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/GLAMpipe
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:18 AM rod@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?
Rod
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
"status proposed"
:-)
On 14/10/16 09:39, Lucy Crompton-Reid wrote:
YES! Excellent :)
On 14 October 2016 at 09:38, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske@googlemail.com mailto:magnusmanske@googlemail.com> wrote:
This, perhaps? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/GLAMpipe <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/GLAMpipe> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:18 AM <rod@rodspace.co.uk <mailto:rod@rodspace.co.uk>> wrote: Hi all,____ __ __ I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ <https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/> ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.____ __ __ I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?____ __ __ Rod____ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk--
Lucy Crompton-Reid
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Wikimedia UK
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