Hello, hive mind - with all this talk of whether our projects (even Wiktionary!) should be caught by the UK OSB, I was hoping to crowdsource an answer to the question: who else might be unfortunate bycatch for this ill-scoped "online safety" law? I'll set out the key definition below, and hopefully you'll have some ideas. I'll start the ball rolling with *OpenStreetMap* and *FixMyStreet* ...
For context: we're hoping to build support for an additional exemption for services *"provided for the purpose of indexing, manipulation, discussion and/or making available of content in the public interest, including but not limited to historical, academic, artistic, educational, encyclopaedic, journalistic, and/or statistical content"*. It'd be helpful to have other examples of good projects that would benefit from being spared the OSB's requirements, not least all the red tape that it requires!
*Scope of the OSB **(ignoring parts dedicated to porn sites - and glossing over a couple of smaller details, such as how combination services are treated):*
a. Applies to any “User-to-user service” and “search service” that "has links with the UK" (e.g. UK users) and isn't exempt.
b. A U2U service "means an internet service by means of which content that is generated directly on the service by a user of the service, or uploaded to or shared on the service by a user of the service, may be encountered by another user, or other users, of the service (...) it does not matter if content is actually shared with another user or users as long as a service has a functionality that allows such sharing". It also "does not matter what proportion of content on a service is" UGC.
c. A search service is "an internet service that is, or includes, a search engine", that is run by the provider of that site (rather than just embedding Google Search into your own), but "does not include a service which enables a person to search just one website or database."
*Exemptions are set out in Schedule 1. These include:*
1. Services where the UGC is limited to
- emails, or SMS/MMS; - one-to-one live aural communications; - comments or reviews relating to the provider's own content; - sharing of such comments or reviews (about a provider's own content) on a different internet service; - services limiting user expression to like/dislikes buttons, emojis, yes/no voting, or rating/scoring;
(but the exemptions above do NOT apply if regulated provider pornographic content is published or displayed on the service)
"Provider content" is "content published on a service by the provider of the service or by a person acting on behalf of the provider (including where the publication of the content is effected or controlled by means of software or an automated tool or algorithm applied by the provider or by a person acting on behalf of the provider)." So that would include, say, guest posters on your own blog, or columnists on the Daily Mail website, but is unlikely to include WMF projects (since contributors aren't acting "on behalf of" WMF).
2. Intranets and search engines that are run internally by *businesses.*
3. Services provided by UK public bodies or foreign sovereign powers (except for childcare services, which have their own narrower exemption).
4. Certain UK-regulated (e.g. Ofsted-regulated) education/childcare providers.
Thanks in advance!
*Phil Bradley-Schmieg* (he/him) Lead Counsel Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
NOTICE: *This message might have confidential or legally privileged information in it. If you have received this message by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our **legal disclaimer* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer*.*
Would Zooniverse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooniverse potentially be caught up in it? It is a citizen science website, and has UGC, eg: comments and discussion here: https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/artem-dot-reshetnikov/saint-george-on-a-...
As I understand it, the comments are very much in response to datasets from the content provider - and are one way in which people contribute to the crowdsourcing - so perhaps it would be exempt? But since the point of the website is to encourage interactions between a community and datasets maybe it's not a clear cut case.
On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 10:23, Phil Bradley-Schmieg pbradley@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello, hive mind - with all this talk of whether our projects (even Wiktionary!) should be caught by the UK OSB, I was hoping to crowdsource an answer to the question: who else might be unfortunate bycatch for this ill-scoped "online safety" law? I'll set out the key definition below, and hopefully you'll have some ideas. I'll start the ball rolling with *OpenStreetMap* and *FixMyStreet* ...
For context: we're hoping to build support for an additional exemption for services *"provided for the purpose of indexing, manipulation, discussion and/or making available of content in the public interest, including but not limited to historical, academic, artistic, educational, encyclopaedic, journalistic, and/or statistical content"*. It'd be helpful to have other examples of good projects that would benefit from being spared the OSB's requirements, not least all the red tape that it requires!
*Scope of the OSB **(ignoring parts dedicated to porn sites - and glossing over a couple of smaller details, such as how combination services are treated):*
a. Applies to any “User-to-user service” and “search service” that "has links with the UK" (e.g. UK users) and isn't exempt.
b. A U2U service "means an internet service by means of which content that is generated directly on the service by a user of the service, or uploaded to or shared on the service by a user of the service, may be encountered by another user, or other users, of the service (...) it does not matter if content is actually shared with another user or users as long as a service has a functionality that allows such sharing". It also "does not matter what proportion of content on a service is" UGC.
c. A search service is "an internet service that is, or includes, a search engine", that is run by the provider of that site (rather than just embedding Google Search into your own), but "does not include a service which enables a person to search just one website or database."
*Exemptions are set out in Schedule 1. These include:*
Services where the UGC is limited to
- emails, or SMS/MMS;
- one-to-one live aural communications;
- comments or reviews relating to the provider's own content;
- sharing of such comments or reviews (about a provider's own content)
on a different internet service;
- services limiting user expression to like/dislikes buttons, emojis,
yes/no voting, or rating/scoring;
(but the exemptions above do NOT apply if regulated provider pornographic content is published or displayed on the service)
"Provider content" is "content published on a service by the provider of the service or by a person acting on behalf of the provider (including where the publication of the content is effected or controlled by means of software or an automated tool or algorithm applied by the provider or by a person acting on behalf of the provider)." So that would include, say, guest posters on your own blog, or columnists on the Daily Mail website, but is unlikely to include WMF projects (since contributors aren't acting "on behalf of" WMF).
Intranets and search engines that are run internally by *businesses.*
Services provided by UK public bodies or foreign sovereign powers
(except for childcare services, which have their own narrower exemption).
- Certain UK-regulated (e.g. Ofsted-regulated) education/childcare
providers.
Thanks in advance!
*Phil Bradley-Schmieg* (he/him) Lead Counsel Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
NOTICE: *This message might have confidential or legally privileged information in it. If you have received this message by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our **legal disclaimer* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer*.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
That's an excellent pointer.
You've raised what I think is the key question for them.
Insofar as the webhost allows third parties (other orgs, or individuals) to create projects https://www.zooniverse.org/lab, I think they might well face an issue here - the content that the "creators" upload is not necessarily published "by or on behalf of" the host. The OSB says that "content that is user-generated content in relation to a service is not to be regarded as provider content in relation to that service". The *uploader* might be able to say that *their *project benefits from the Sched 1 "publisher content" exemption, but that might be harder for the host. (I think of this like Inception, or Matryoshka dolls)
As an aside, I wonder if SNPedia https://www.snpedia.com/ might be in trouble, too. And maybe Justgiving.
Phil
On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 12:42, Richard Nevell < richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Would Zooniverse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooniverse potentially be caught up in it? It is a citizen science website, and has UGC, eg: comments and discussion here: https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/artem-dot-reshetnikov/saint-george-on-a-...
As I understand it, the comments are very much in response to datasets from the content provider - and are one way in which people contribute to the crowdsourcing - so perhaps it would be exempt? But since the point of the website is to encourage interactions between a community and datasets maybe it's not a clear cut case.
On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 10:23, Phil Bradley-Schmieg pbradley@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello, hive mind - with all this talk of whether our projects (even Wiktionary!) should be caught by the UK OSB, I was hoping to crowdsource an answer to the question: who else might be unfortunate bycatch for this ill-scoped "online safety" law? I'll set out the key definition below, and hopefully you'll have some ideas. I'll start the ball rolling with *OpenStreetMap* and *FixMyStreet*...
For context: we're hoping to build support for an additional exemption for services *"provided for the purpose of indexing, manipulation, discussion and/or making available of content in the public interest, including but not limited to historical, academic, artistic, educational, encyclopaedic, journalistic, and/or statistical content"*. It'd be helpful to have other examples of good projects that would benefit from being spared the OSB's requirements, not least all the red tape that it requires!
*Scope of the OSB **(ignoring parts dedicated to porn sites - and glossing over a couple of smaller details, such as how combination services are treated):*
a. Applies to any “User-to-user service” and “search service” that "has links with the UK" (e.g. UK users) and isn't exempt.
b. A U2U service "means an internet service by means of which content that is generated directly on the service by a user of the service, or uploaded to or shared on the service by a user of the service, may be encountered by another user, or other users, of the service (...) it does not matter if content is actually shared with another user or users as long as a service has a functionality that allows such sharing". It also "does not matter what proportion of content on a service is" UGC.
c. A search service is "an internet service that is, or includes, a search engine", that is run by the provider of that site (rather than just embedding Google Search into your own), but "does not include a service which enables a person to search just one website or database."
*Exemptions are set out in Schedule 1. These include:*
Services where the UGC is limited to
- emails, or SMS/MMS;
- one-to-one live aural communications;
- comments or reviews relating to the provider's own content;
- sharing of such comments or reviews (about a provider's own
content) on a different internet service;
- services limiting user expression to like/dislikes buttons, emojis,
yes/no voting, or rating/scoring;
(but the exemptions above do NOT apply if regulated provider pornographic content is published or displayed on the service)
"Provider content" is "content published on a service by the provider of the service or by a person acting on behalf of the provider (including where the publication of the content is effected or controlled by means of software or an automated tool or algorithm applied by the provider or by a person acting on behalf of the provider)." So that would include, say, guest posters on your own blog, or columnists on the Daily Mail website, but is unlikely to include WMF projects (since contributors aren't acting "on behalf of" WMF).
Intranets and search engines that are run internally by *businesses.*
Services provided by UK public bodies or foreign sovereign powers
(except for childcare services, which have their own narrower exemption).
- Certain UK-regulated (e.g. Ofsted-regulated) education/childcare
providers.
Thanks in advance!
*Phil Bradley-Schmieg* (he/him) Lead Counsel Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
NOTICE: *This message might have confidential or legally privileged information in it. If you have received this message by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our **legal disclaimer* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer*.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
--
Dr Richard Nevell (he/him)
Programme Manager and Connected Heritage Project Lead
https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk/
Wikimedia UK https://wikimedia.org.uk/ is the national chapter for the global Wikimedia open knowledge movement. Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/wikimediauk, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaUK, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/496119, and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wikimediauk/. Wikimedia UK is a registered charity in England and Wales No.1144513 and Scotland No. SC048644. Company Limited by Guarantee, Registration No. 6741827. Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5-11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ https://maps.google.com/?q=5+-+11+Lavington+Street,+London+SE1+0NZ&entry=gmail&source=g . _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 16:53, Phil Bradley-Schmieg pbradley@wikimedia.org wrote:
who else might be unfortunate bycatch for this ill-scoped "online safety" law?
* OpenBenches * OpenPlaques * Auction and reselling sites (think eBay/Etsy, but UK based) * Any bulletin-board discussion site, of which there are thousands; examples might inucde ** https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/ ** https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/ ** https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/ (!)
Geograph https://www.geograph.org.uk/ as well?
On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 13:20, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 16:53, Phil Bradley-Schmieg pbradley@wikimedia.org wrote:
who else might be unfortunate bycatch for this ill-scoped "online
safety" law?
- OpenBenches
- OpenPlaques
- Auction and reselling sites (think eBay/Etsy, but UK based)
- Any bulletin-board discussion site, of which there are thousands;
examples might inucde ** https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/ ** https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/ ** https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/ (!)
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
I can also think of Designing Buildings, a wiki for the UK construction industry with some editorial curation. https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Home Like Wikimedia projects, contributors are encouraged to create a profile but not required contributors to disclose any personal information.
Designing Buildings is co-sponsored by some of the big names in UK industrial establishment like the Chartered Institute of Building (CIOB) and the Association for Project Management (APM), so they may be valuable partners to bring on board the campaign for a general exemption in OSB for historical and educational content of public interest.
--Deryck [[User:Deryck Chan]]
On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 13:29, Richard Nevell < richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Geograph https://www.geograph.org.uk/ as well?
On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 13:20, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 16:53, Phil Bradley-Schmieg pbradley@wikimedia.org wrote:
who else might be unfortunate bycatch for this ill-scoped "online
safety" law?
- OpenBenches
- OpenPlaques
- Auction and reselling sites (think eBay/Etsy, but UK based)
- Any bulletin-board discussion site, of which there are thousands;
examples might inucde ** https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/ ** https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/ ** https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/ (!)
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
--
Dr Richard Nevell (he/him)
Programme Manager and Connected Heritage Project Lead
https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk/
Wikimedia UK https://wikimedia.org.uk/ is the national chapter for the global Wikimedia open knowledge movement. Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/wikimediauk, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaUK, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/496119, and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wikimediauk/. Wikimedia UK is a registered charity in England and Wales No.1144513 and Scotland No. SC048644. Company Limited by Guarantee, Registration No. 6741827. Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5-11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ https://maps.google.com/?q=5+-+11+Lavington+Street,+London+SE1+0NZ&entry=gmail&source=g . _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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