I forgot to mention - I was speaking to someone at the Wikimedia Seminar last Thursday and they mentioned that their sister is a teacher (11-16yos) and often has problems with students using Wikipedia inappropriately (in the sense of repeating things that aren't true). She said it would be useful if we could put together a, say, 5 page guide, on the best way to use Wikipedia.
Does anyone know if there is anything similar already out there and could anyone help out with putting something like this together?
Thanks
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:30 PM, AndrewRT andrewrturvey@googlemail.comwrote:
I forgot to mention - I was speaking to someone at the Wikimedia Seminar last Thursday and they mentioned that their sister is a teacher (11-16yos) and often has problems with students using Wikipedia inappropriately (in the sense of repeating things that aren't true). She said it would be useful if we could put together a, say, 5 page guide, on the best way to use Wikipedia.
Does anyone know if there is anything similar already out there and could anyone help out with putting something like this together?
Thanks
This[1] and this[2] look quite good.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Researching_with_Wikipedia 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_use
--Majorly
On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 08:30 -0800, AndrewRT wrote:
I forgot to mention - I was speaking to someone at the Wikimedia Seminar last Thursday and they mentioned that their sister is a teacher (11-16yos) and often has problems with students using Wikipedia inappropriately (in the sense of repeating things that aren't true). She said it would be useful if we could put together a, say, 5 page guide, on the best way to use Wikipedia.
Does anyone know if there is anything similar already out there and could anyone help out with putting something like this together?
Eleven through sixteen is a broad range. I know there's several project administrators fall in that group but...
For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted.
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted.
Wikipedia for Schools is about censoring Wikipedia. It doesn't make it any easier to do good research.
On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 16:48 +0000, Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted.
Wikipedia for Schools is about censoring Wikipedia. It doesn't make it any easier to do good research.
Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio?
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio?
Personally, I am very sceptical that such things are harmful to children. However, that is irrelevant. The question was about helping students use Wikipedia more effectively by correctly determining the reliability of different claims. Wikipedia for Schools doesn't help with that so it not a helpful suggestion.
On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 17:13 +0000, Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio?
Personally, I am very sceptical that such things are harmful to children. However, that is irrelevant. The question was about helping students use Wikipedia more effectively by correctly determining the reliability of different claims. Wikipedia for Schools doesn't help with that so it not a helpful suggestion.
I agree with you about being sceptical of such "moral outrage". When I was that age it was the prissy parents whinging about kids looking up "penis" in the dictionary. ;-)
However, kids that age are smart enough to work from Wikipedia for schools (vetted and dumbed down) to comparing with Wikipedia and seeing why certain information is taken out or considered dubious.
Perhaps one of the most important "sum of all knowledge" aspects Wikipedia can offer is an ability to be appropriately sceptical. A good transition through the education system does that; you start with the basics and work up to real research work where you need to recognise a significant or credible report.
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
However, kids that age are smart enough to work from Wikipedia for schools (vetted and dumbed down) to comparing with Wikipedia and seeing why certain information is taken out or considered dubious.
As far as I know, Wikipedia for Schools doesn't attempt to remove dubious information. It just chooses information relevant to the National Curriculum - it's all about relevance, not reliability.
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 16:48 +0000, Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcneil@wikinewsie.org:
For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted.
Wikipedia for Schools is about censoring Wikipedia. It doesn't make it any easier to do good research.
Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio?
Since most people will recommend a search engine of some type at some point it is a fairly common activity.
AndrewRT wrote:
I forgot to mention - I was speaking to someone at the Wikimedia Seminar last Thursday and they mentioned that their sister is a teacher (11-16yos) and often has problems with students using Wikipedia inappropriately (in the sense of repeating things that aren't true). She said it would be useful if we could put together a, say, 5 page guide, on the best way to use Wikipedia.
Does anyone know if there is anything similar already out there and could anyone help out with putting something like this together?
There are actually several issues. Two major ones are covered by "How Wikipedia Works", which is under the GFDL. Online you can find
http://howwikipediaworks.com/ch04.html: Chapter 4. Understanding and Evaluating an Article
A number of reviewers singled out this chapter as containing original material about article evaluation, which is one topic a teacher would be interested in.
http://howwikipediaworks.com/apb.html : Appendix B. Wikipedia for Teachers
1. Wikipedia as a Classroom Reference Resource 2. Guiding Student Use of Wikipedia 3. Assigning Wikipedia Editing
More conventional things about citation, in particular.
If a school student is misled by Wikipedia, there are of course several possible causes: Wikipedia is wrong; the student is misreading by being superficial about what is said, or is summarising inaccurately; or material is being taken out of context (for example neutrality being affected by selective quotation).
It should be possible to hit the highlights over five pages. What would be really valuable would be to have some feedback, to have an idea how it goes with school students of various age groups (e.g. GCSE, A-level classes), and what the key points are for them. For 11 to 16, there should probably be plenty of emphasis on the presence and style of references, and accuracy in reading what is written; the language used is usually not pitched to the reading age at the lower end of that age group.
Charles
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