Hi all, it was great to talk to some of you yesterday at the London meetup, and especially the discussion around trying to better organise those Wikimedians who are also software developers. I think we all agree that some of the tools people have created to edit and improve Wikipedia, Commons etc are really useful, but that they aren't very accessible or user friendly. I think we could make a useful impact if we could organise developers to put their heads together to work on improving and extending the vast array of tools that exist already. To this end, I've started a Slack channel for Wikimedia developers to discuss how we might move forward with the idea. If you would like to be added to the channel to discuss with other Wikimedia developers how to take the idea forward and share what you might already be working on, please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com .
All the best,
John Lubbock Communications Coordinator Wikimedia UK
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
How do I sign up (sign in)?
Gordo
On 14/11/16 18:51, Gordon Joly wrote:
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
How do I sign up (sign in)?
Gordo
I am INTERESTED!
Gordo
I'll send you a link to your email Gordon.
On 14 November 2016 at 18:51, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 14/11/16 18:51, Gordon Joly wrote:
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
How do I sign up (sign in)?
Gordo
I am INTERESTED!
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
If you would like to be added to the channel to discuss with other Wikimedia developers how to take the idea forward and share what you might already be working on, please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
Is this active?
Gordo
I'm lurking on it, but we need more people to join to make it useful. I think there's a critical mass of people it needs so that someone is on there all the time. I'm specifically looking for javascript developers at the moment to help Magnus Manske with a project, so if anyone else wants to join the channel, please send me your email addresses and I'll add you.
John
On 12 January 2017 at 17:01, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
If you would like to be added to the channel to discuss with other Wikimedia developers how to take the idea forward and share what you might already be working on, please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
Is this active?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Hi John,
I'm up for it! pat@pathadley.net
Cheers,
P
On 13 January 2017 at 12:06, John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I'm lurking on it, but we need more people to join to make it useful. I think there's a critical mass of people it needs so that someone is on there all the time. I'm specifically looking for javascript developers at the moment to help Magnus Manske with a project, so if anyone else wants to join the channel, please send me your email addresses and I'll add you.
John
On 12 January 2017 at 17:01, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
If you would like to be added to the channel to discuss with other Wikimedia developers how to take the idea forward and share what you might already be working on, please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
Is this active?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks Pat, I've invited you to the Slack discussion. When we have enough people interested, I'm also looking for someone to take the lead on organising a Wikimedia hackathon, to get people together to work on tools. Please join the slack and we can discuss plans further. If anyone else would like to join the slack channel, just send me you email.
John
On 16 January 2017 at 10:20, Pat Hadley pat@pathadley.net wrote:
Hi John,
I'm up for it! pat@pathadley.net
Cheers,
P
On 13 January 2017 at 12:06, John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I'm lurking on it, but we need more people to join to make it useful. I think there's a critical mass of people it needs so that someone is on there all the time. I'm specifically looking for javascript developers at the moment to help Magnus Manske with a project, so if anyone else wants to join the channel, please send me your email addresses and I'll add you.
John
On 12 January 2017 at 17:01, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 14/11/16 13:42, John Lubbock wrote:
If you would like to be added to the channel to discuss with other Wikimedia developers how to take the idea forward and share what you might already be working on, please reply with your interest and let me know your email address so I can send you an invite to the channel, wikidevsuk.slack.com http://wikidevsuk.slack.com .
Is this active?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Pat Hadley Web developer. Museum geek. pathadley.net @pathadley http://twitter.com/pathadley
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<<
I did ask this question a while back on SLACK....
Is there a good answer?
Gordo
Is there an open source version of slack?
On 16 January 2017 at 15:59, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<<
I did ask this question a while back on SLACK....
Is there a good answer?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
The closest equivalent is IRC, I guess. However, it's a barrier to entry.
See also http://xkcd.com/1782/
*Edward Saperia* Founder Newspeak House http://www.nwspk.com email edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 16 January 2017 at 17:13, Richard Nevell <richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
Is there an open source version of slack?
On 16 January 2017 at 15:59, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<<
I did ask this question a while back on SLACK....
Is there a good answer?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Richard Nevell Project Coordinator Wikimedia UK - sign up to our newsletter http://eepurl.com/cnYOw5 +44 (0) 20 7065 0921 <020%207065%200921>
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
I actually tried to encourage people through here to use IRC a number of months ago but didn't detect much enthusiasm for it. Slack is much easier and more user friendly.
On 16 January 2017 at 17:18, Edward Saperia edsaperia@gmail.com wrote:
The closest equivalent is IRC, I guess. However, it's a barrier to entry.
See also http://xkcd.com/1782/
*Edward Saperia* Founder Newspeak House http://www.nwspk.com email edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 16 January 2017 at 17:13, Richard Nevell <richard.nevell@wikimedia.org. uk> wrote:
Is there an open source version of slack?
On 16 January 2017 at 15:59, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<<
I did ask this question a while back on SLACK....
Is there a good answer?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Richard Nevell Project Coordinator Wikimedia UK - sign up to our newsletter http://eepurl.com/cnYOw5 +44 (0) 20 7065 0921 <020%207065%200921>
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
There are a couple of open source alternatives popping up besides irc, one of them rocket.chat.
Rupert
On Jan 16, 2017 6:29 PM, "John Lubbock" john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I actually tried to encourage people through here to use IRC a number of months ago but didn't detect much enthusiasm for it. Slack is much easier and more user friendly.
On 16 January 2017 at 17:18, Edward Saperia edsaperia@gmail.com wrote:
The closest equivalent is IRC, I guess. However, it's a barrier to entry.
See also http://xkcd.com/1782/
*Edward Saperia* Founder Newspeak House http://www.nwspk.com email edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 16 January 2017 at 17:13, Richard Nevell < richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Is there an open source version of slack?
On 16 January 2017 at 15:59, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<<
I did ask this question a while back on SLACK....
Is there a good answer?
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Richard Nevell Project Coordinator Wikimedia UK - sign up to our newsletter http://eepurl.com/cnYOw5 +44 (0) 20 7065 0921 <020%207065%200921>
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
How about Discourse?
"Discourse is the 100% open source discussion platform built for the next decade of the Internet."
Here is the code:
https://github.com/discourse/discourse
Gordo
On 16/01/17 17:18, Edward Saperia wrote:
The closest equivalent is IRC, I guess. However, it's a barrier to entry.
See also http://xkcd.com/1782/
*Edward Saperia* Founder Newspeak House http://www.nwspk.com email mailto:edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 16 January 2017 at 17:13, Richard Nevell <richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk mailto:richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Is there an open source version of slack? On 16 January 2017 at 15:59, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly@pobox.com <mailto:gordon.joly@pobox.com>> wrote: >>Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<< http://wikidevsuk.slack.com I did ask this question a while back on SLACK.... Is there a good answer? Gordo _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk -- Richard Nevell Project Coordinator Wikimedia UK - sign up to our newsletter <http://eepurl.com/cnYOw5> +44 (0) 20 7065 0921 <tel:020%207065%200921> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month). Personally I don't think we need to stretch over backwards to always use an open source option for just communications tools. We don't refuse to use Facebook or Twitter. This is for communications, and whatever makes that easiest is my preferred option.
John
On 16 January 2017 at 21:21, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
How about Discourse?
"Discourse is the 100% open source discussion platform built for the next decade of the Internet."
Here is the code:
https://github.com/discourse/discourse
Gordo
On 16/01/17 17:18, Edward Saperia wrote:
The closest equivalent is IRC, I guess. However, it's a barrier to entry.
See also http://xkcd.com/1782/
*Edward Saperia* Founder Newspeak House http://www.nwspk.com email mailto:edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 16 January 2017 at 17:13, Richard Nevell <richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk mailto:richard.nevell@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Is there an open source version of slack? On 16 January 2017 at 15:59, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly@pobox.com <mailto:gordon.joly@pobox.com>> wrote: >>Why are we not on an Open Source platform?<< http://wikidevsuk.slack.com I did ask this question a while back on SLACK.... Is there a good answer? Gordo _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk -- Richard Nevell Project Coordinator Wikimedia UK - sign up to our newsletter <http://eepurl.com/cnYOw5> +44 (0) 20 7065 0921 <tel:020%207065%200921> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month). Personally I don't think we need to stretch over backwards to always use an open source option for just communications tools. We don't refuse to use Facebook or Twitter. This is for communications, and whatever makes that easiest is my preferred option.
A good point (on FB and Twitter and the rest).
But where there is a open source alternative?
*****
Discourse is the 100% open source discussion platform built for the next decade of the Internet. It works as:
a mailing list a discussion forum a long-form chat room *****
So, download and install?
Gordo
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
**** We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too. ****
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free. I am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
I'm not planning to join because I don't code (though I'm happy to join a channel if you get to a stage where end user or design process feedback is useful) but I would note that asking people to adopt new platforms 'just because they are open source', rather than ones that are used by a lot of people/ a lot of people are already familiar with, is pretty daft when your ultimate goal is to benefit the open source community through the work the channel fosters.
As far as I know, for this type of work, Slack is the go to for most devs. The Foundation use it without issue.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 at 12:24 Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too.
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free. I am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
The other thing is that we have already started using Slack in the office for chat, and I have another slack channel for the Kurdish Wikipedia Project, so I've already gone down this path a bit of a way and to back out and start again because something else is open source would be quite disruptive for other work I'm doing. I'm trying to organise developers to come to one place to discuss this, and I've chosen Slack because it's easy and lots of people use it. I appreciate that it might not be ideal for some people, but I really can't spare the time and effort to start this all again from scratch.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 13:19, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not planning to join because I don't code (though I'm happy to join a channel if you get to a stage where end user or design process feedback is useful) but I would note that asking people to adopt new platforms 'just because they are open source', rather than ones that are used by a lot of people/ a lot of people are already familiar with, is pretty daft when your ultimate goal is to benefit the open source community through the work the channel fosters.
As far as I know, for this type of work, Slack is the go to for most devs. The Foundation use it without issue.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 at 12:24 Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too.
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free. I am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
I'm still trying to understand why UK-based Wikimedia developer discussions have to be on a closed forum.
As an example, with global discussions around issues or changes on Phabricator, a key benefit is that it is easy to link to these discussions and information on-wiki so that anyone can review them, not just those that have set up accounts on Phabricator. Encouraging wiki-project developers to join an invite-only channel to discuss changes to their open projects behind closed doors, appears to force a contradiction in values and remain an ethical barrier for potential contributors.
At the point where any development might change Wikimedia projects, whatever was done on a closed forum would have to be presented publicly. Even abandoned ideas benefit the community by adding to our store of common knowledge, if the discussions are available for future reference rather than held in closed archives.
Fae
On 17 January 2017 at 14:51, John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
The other thing is that we have already started using Slack in the office for chat, and I have another slack channel for the Kurdish Wikipedia Project, so I've already gone down this path a bit of a way and to back out and start again because something else is open source would be quite disruptive for other work I'm doing. I'm trying to organise developers to come to one place to discuss this, and I've chosen Slack because it's easy and lots of people use it. I appreciate that it might not be ideal for some people, but I really can't spare the time and effort to start this all again from scratch.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 13:19, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not planning to join because I don't code (though I'm happy to join a channel if you get to a stage where end user or design process feedback is useful) but I would note that asking people to adopt new platforms 'just because they are open source', rather than ones that are used by a lot of people/ a lot of people are already familiar with, is pretty daft when your ultimate goal is to benefit the open source community through the work the channel fosters.
As far as I know, for this type of work, Slack is the go to for most devs. The Foundation use it without issue.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 at 12:24 Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too.
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free. I am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
I never said they 'had to be' on a closed forum. I presented the idea a while ago, didn't get much feedback from anyone, and had already started using Slack in the office, so I just created another channel. If you would like to create a different channel for developers and have a separate lot of discussions elsewhere, there's nothing stopping you. I have only offered to try to coordinate the work of developers, and the door's open for those who want to participate.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 15:34, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
I'm still trying to understand why UK-based Wikimedia developer discussions have to be on a closed forum.
As an example, with global discussions around issues or changes on Phabricator, a key benefit is that it is easy to link to these discussions and information on-wiki so that anyone can review them, not just those that have set up accounts on Phabricator. Encouraging wiki-project developers to join an invite-only channel to discuss changes to their open projects behind closed doors, appears to force a contradiction in values and remain an ethical barrier for potential contributors.
At the point where any development might change Wikimedia projects, whatever was done on a closed forum would have to be presented publicly. Even abandoned ideas benefit the community by adding to our store of common knowledge, if the discussions are available for future reference rather than held in closed archives.
Fae
On 17 January 2017 at 14:51, John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
The other thing is that we have already started using Slack in the office for chat, and I have another slack channel for the Kurdish Wikipedia Project, so I've already gone down this path a bit of a way and to back
out
and start again because something else is open source would be quite disruptive for other work I'm doing. I'm trying to organise developers to come to one place to discuss this, and I've chosen Slack because it's
easy
and lots of people use it. I appreciate that it might not be ideal for
some
people, but I really can't spare the time and effort to start this all
again
from scratch.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 13:19, Katherine Bavage <
katherine.bavage@gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm not planning to join because I don't code (though I'm happy to join
a
channel if you get to a stage where end user or design process feedback
is
useful) but I would note that asking people to adopt new platforms 'just because they are open source', rather than ones that are used by a lot
of
people/ a lot of people are already familiar with, is pretty daft when
your
ultimate goal is to benefit the open source community through the work
the
channel fosters.
As far as I know, for this type of work, Slack is the go to for most
devs.
The Foundation use it without issue.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 at 12:24 Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free
and
then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too.
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free. I am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks.
On 17 Jan 2017 15:50, "John Lubbock" john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I never said they 'had to be' on a closed forum. I presented the idea a while ago, didn't get much feedback from anyone, and had already started using Slack in the office, so I just created another channel. If you would like to create a different channel for developers and have a separate lot of discussions elsewhere, there's nothing stopping you. I have only offered to try to coordinate the work of developers, and the door's open for those who want to participate.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 15:34, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
I'm still trying to understand why UK-based Wikimedia developer discussions have to be on a closed forum.
As an example, with global discussions around issues or changes on Phabricator, a key benefit is that it is easy to link to these discussions and information on-wiki so that anyone can review them, not just those that have set up accounts on Phabricator. Encouraging wiki-project developers to join an invite-only channel to discuss changes to their open projects behind closed doors, appears to force a contradiction in values and remain an ethical barrier for potential contributors.
At the point where any development might change Wikimedia projects, whatever was done on a closed forum would have to be presented publicly. Even abandoned ideas benefit the community by adding to our store of common knowledge, if the discussions are available for future reference rather than held in closed archives.
Fae
On 17 January 2017 at 14:51, John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
The other thing is that we have already started using Slack in the
office
for chat, and I have another slack channel for the Kurdish Wikipedia Project, so I've already gone down this path a bit of a way and to back
out
and start again because something else is open source would be quite disruptive for other work I'm doing. I'm trying to organise developers
to
come to one place to discuss this, and I've chosen Slack because it's
easy
and lots of people use it. I appreciate that it might not be ideal for
some
people, but I really can't spare the time and effort to start this all
again
from scratch.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 13:19, Katherine Bavage <
katherine.bavage@gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm not planning to join because I don't code (though I'm happy to
join a
channel if you get to a stage where end user or design process
feedback is
useful) but I would note that asking people to adopt new platforms
'just
because they are open source', rather than ones that are used by a lot
of
people/ a lot of people are already familiar with, is pretty daft when
your
ultimate goal is to benefit the open source community through the work
the
channel fosters.
As far as I know, for this type of work, Slack is the go to for most
devs.
The Foundation use it without issue.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 at 12:24 Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com
wrote:
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free
and
then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too.
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free.
I
am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Back in the day (a few years ago) there was a UK tech mailing list. Sadly it became disused. Things were also posted on the WMUK wiki - again, sadly, those pages are now disused. They were nice while they lasted.
Thanks, Mike
On 17 Jan 2017, at 13:34, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
I'm still trying to understand why UK-based Wikimedia developer discussions have to be on a closed forum.
As an example, with global discussions around issues or changes on Phabricator, a key benefit is that it is easy to link to these discussions and information on-wiki so that anyone can review them, not just those that have set up accounts on Phabricator. Encouraging wiki-project developers to join an invite-only channel to discuss changes to their open projects behind closed doors, appears to force a contradiction in values and remain an ethical barrier for potential contributors.
At the point where any development might change Wikimedia projects, whatever was done on a closed forum would have to be presented publicly. Even abandoned ideas benefit the community by adding to our store of common knowledge, if the discussions are available for future reference rather than held in closed archives.
Fae
On 17 January 2017 at 14:51, John Lubbock <john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk mailto:john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
The other thing is that we have already started using Slack in the office for chat, and I have another slack channel for the Kurdish Wikipedia Project, so I've already gone down this path a bit of a way and to back out and start again because something else is open source would be quite disruptive for other work I'm doing. I'm trying to organise developers to come to one place to discuss this, and I've chosen Slack because it's easy and lots of people use it. I appreciate that it might not be ideal for some people, but I really can't spare the time and effort to start this all again from scratch.
John
On 17 January 2017 at 13:19, Katherine Bavage <katherine.bavage@gmail.com mailto:katherine.bavage@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not planning to join because I don't code (though I'm happy to join a channel if you get to a stage where end user or design process feedback is useful) but I would note that asking people to adopt new platforms 'just because they are open source', rather than ones that are used by a lot of people/ a lot of people are already familiar with, is pretty daft when your ultimate goal is to benefit the open source community through the work the channel fosters.
As far as I know, for this type of work, Slack is the go to for most devs. The Foundation use it without issue.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 at 12:24 Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 17/01/17 00:38, John Lubbock wrote:
It costs a lot of money, as far as I can see (it says Try for Free and then takes you to a page where it asks you to pay $100 a month).
We wrote Discourse, and we can host it for you, too.
Yes, that is a hosting option. You can download and install for free. I am suggesting WMUK host the code on their own server...
Gordo
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Funny how my question about open source alternatives was not answered in Slack, but has prompted several responses in this email list....
Gordo
On 17 January 2017 at 20:11 Gordon Joly <gordon.joly@pobox.com> wrote: Funny how my question about open source alternatives was not answered in Slack, but has prompted several responses in this email list....
Ha-ha or peculiar? The old chestnut that WMUK should be using open-source, well, because ... I'd hoped we'd laid to rest.
Charles
On 17/01/17 20:11, Gordon Joly wrote:
Funny how my question about open source alternatives was not answered in Slack, but has prompted several responses in this email list....
Gordo
This from 2016....
https://ux.useronboard.com/slack-i-m-breaking-up-with-you-54600ace03ea#.78r3...
Old news.
Gordo
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