And very nice to hear Lucy on the Today programme! Around 8:50 am. Gordo

Agree with Gordo. It would be sensible for event coordinators to get the BBC news piece changed this morning. It would be a lot better to give a link to the on-wiki help. I have plenty of experience creating biographies, but I still had two new biography stubs for women academics put up for deletion this week. The notability guidelines can be tough and difficult to interpret, even very experienced contributors find ourselves debating the meaning of "impact" and "major" for individual cases. BTW If anyone is talking to the BBC In Our Time producer or Melvin Bragg himself, they have an archive of photographs for everyone that appears on the radio programme which seem unpublished apart from use on twitter. It would be great to get the archive released to Commons as only half of the people taking part on Melvin's panels have biographies, and even fewer have illustrated biographies. Oh, and IOT seems to make a point of having academically distinguished women on the panels... Thanks, Fae On 8 December 2016 at 09:30, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote: -- faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

I know Lucy is aware of the connection between comms policy, and training material, since we had a brief exchange about that after the AGM. There is no reason that WMUK shouldn't have creditable training content on its own site, adapted to current needs. Charles

It's possible to follow the edits through the hashtag, at: http://tools.wmflabs.org/hashtags/search/100Womenwiki <http://tools.wmflabs.org/hashtags/search/100Womenwiki> Maybe help interact with the new users there? There are already a few problematic usernames being used... (e.g., User:BBC100) Thanks, Mike

Any chance of getting them to tweak http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38219838 If you create a biography of a living person on Wikipedia you really need to cite a reliable source - such as a BBC article about them. On 8 December 2016 at 10:24, Michael Peel &lt;email(a)mikepeel.net&gt; wrote:

Hello all! On my way from a wiki session in Edinburgh to the BBC session in Glasgow, where m'colleague Ewan is already guiding that team. I provided a training session a week or so ago in preparation for today, but as we all know, the best way to learn is by doing. I'm so excited to be able to help get these missing women into the encyclopaedia. As is my custom, I'll be placing the {{new user article}} template on the talk pages of any articles created by new users today. I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone on this list who is able, to stop by these new articles and help give them the best possible chance at wiki life. (And if needed, lend a hand if we see newbies being bitten.) Yours in encyclopaedia-building-wiki-love, Sara Thomas User:lirazelf Previously Wikimedian in Residence at Museums Galleries Scotland, now free-range. Sent from my iPhone On 8 Dec 2016, at 11:24, Lucy Crompton-Reid <lucy.crompton-reid@wikimedia.org.uk<mailto:lucy.crompton-reid@wikimedia.org.uk>> wrote: Hi all I've added the link to the enwiki help pages on the project meta page, and I'm talking to the BBC about updating the News pages...thanks all! Lucy On 8 December 2016 at 11:00, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com<mailto:werespielchequers@gmail.com>> wrote: Any chance of getting them to tweak http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38219838 If you create a biography of a living person on Wikipedia you really need to cite a reliable source - such as a BBC article about them. On 8 December 2016 at 10:24, Michael Peel <email@mikepeel.net<mailto:email@mikepeel.net>> wrote: It's possible to follow the edits through the hashtag, at: http://tools.wmflabs.org/hashtags/search/100Womenwiki Maybe help interact with the new users there? There are already a few problematic usernames being used... (e.g., User:BBC100) Thanks, Mike On 8 Dec 2016, at 07:49, Lucy Crompton-Reid <lucy.crompton-reid@wikimedia.org.uk<mailto:lucy.crompton-reid@wikimedia.org.uk>> wrote: Hi Gordo This is one of the issues we've been discussing with the BBC all along...the idea being to focus on in person training events where people get a real sense of how to edit and are far less likely to be reverted. Of course the BBC were quite focused on having a large scale call to action...we're hoping to see most engagement at the in person events and we also have people keeping an eye on the hashtag so that we can spot potentially tricky situations. But you're right, it is a concern. Lucy On 8 December 2016 at 09:30, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly@pobox.com<mailto:gordon.joly@pobox.com>> wrote: On 05/12/16 14:41, Lucy Crompton-Reid wrote: Great stuff, but on the BBC News article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38219838 we find "How to create a new profile on Wikipedia" This is really about article creation for new biographic entries. If this is a living person, then one of the most difficult starting points for a new editor. I would think of "new profile" as being a User page. So, going live with a new article and then facing a rapid deletion request is hardly constructive. No mention of a sandbox.... for example. There should be explicit links to extant help, tutorials and other instruction. Gordo _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk<https://wikimedia.org.uk/> -- Lucy Crompton-Reid Chief Executive Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0991 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk -- Lucy Crompton-Reid Chief Executive Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0991 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

On 08/12/16 12:01, Sara Thomas wrote: Which then expands to.... ****************************************** This is an article recently created by a new user. More editing may be needed to meet standards, but please be courteous and assume good faith, and consider leaving a constructive message on the creator's talk page if large changes need to be made. This template should be removed once the page has been reviewed by someone other than its creator. If you are the article's creator, you can seek feedback on your new article. ****************************************** :-) Gordo

Thanks Jonathan, that's a great idea! At the training events we are of course reinforcing the need for appropriate secondary sources, and lots of preparation work has been done by Roger and other Women in Red editors, Stuart Prior at Wikimedia UK and BBC staff to create lists of women to be added - with sources - on the resources section of the meta page: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK/Events/BBC_100_Women_Resources On the 'how to' video that the BBC made - basic as it undoubtedly is - finding sources is point 4. Of course, this important point may get lost in the ether so any support from the community in keeping articles up and improving them would be HUGELY appreciated! All best Lucy On 8 December 2016 at 12:56, WereSpielChequers &lt;werespielchequers(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Lucy Crompton-Reid Chief Executive Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0991 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

An interesting question that could do with a speedy response (and maybe a copyright release email from the BBC to OTRS) has been posted at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:100_Women_(BBC)#Is_it_not_a_copyright_vi… Thanks, Mike

Hi all There does seem to be some disagreement as to whether copyright is actually an issue in the case of the list of 100 women. I will be doing quite a lot of follow up with the BBC over the next few weeks so am happy to add this to my list of things to discuss, however I will try to seek legal clarity on this question first. Thanks Lucy On 8 December 2016 at 23:18, Gordon Joly &lt;gordon.joly(a)pobox.com&gt; wrote: -- Lucy Crompton-Reid Chief Executive Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0991 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

Thanks Fae, this is super helpful! By 'legal clarity' I meant 'will talk to people in the community who know more about this than I do', rather than 'see a lawyer' :) Will follow up early next week. Cheers Lucy On 9 December 2016 at 10:13, Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Lucy Crompton-Reid Chief Executive Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0991 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 9 December 2016 at 10:49, Richard Nevell &lt;richard.nevell(a)wikimedia.org.uk&gt; wrote: I don't think that the issue was ever mentioned by anyone. In cases like [[A History of the World in 100 Objects]], [[Our Top Ten Treasures]], and [[Britain's Secret Treasures]] the lists are notable and of public interest because they have been featured in TV programmes, and it is impossible to write an article on the subject without giving the listed objects. To not list the items would be an extreme disservice to our readers, and would not be any benefit to the original compilers of the lists. Personally, I think that in such cases and for 100 women where no-one is claiming the list as their intellectual property we should not be overzealous in protecting imaginary copyright concerns. I hope that for 100 women common sense will prevail over legalistic arguments. Andrew [[User:BabelStone]]

On 09/12/16 11:10, Andrew West wrote: And radio too! :-) Gordo

I've just gone ahead and closed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Laura_Coryton as keep. In a sense the BBC is gaming the system by writing out loud that Laura Coryton doesn't have an article but should be, because the article itself then becomes a reliable source which pushes the subject up a notch on the notability scale. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/96d9abef-b668-42b7-a3bd-6305c42b5ff9 But on the AfD itself, few comments were raised about the BBC article's effect on this AfD. While I will never know how many of those unsubstantiated "keep because I think this article meets the inclusion guideline" comments were swayed by the BBC campaign, it seems that very few people thought the BBC campaign directly affected the notability of these women. I hope these observations will be useful for future BBC/WMUK collaborations. Deryck (with his en.wp admin hat on) On 10 December 2016 at 21:48, Gordon Joly &lt;gordon.joly(a)pobox.com&gt; wrote:

There are kind of two points: *WP doesn't work on a concept of "prominence", beyond the Main Page, while the media work with little else. *Gaming the usual concepts around notability is self-defeating, but prompting research that is less superficial is the opposite. Charles

The editors in London who had editor support did very well. We trained lots of very bright people. I know that we've had dozens in other languages and we had newbies in London creating two good articles. A link to the detail might have been a catch all but we no have a bare Edit button above every article. I suspect this is the biggest in person editathon... Have there been others? On 8 Dec 2016 10:24 am, "Michael Peel" &lt;email(a)mikepeel.net&gt; wrote:

Dear all In the next few days I will be emailing more formal thanks to lots of people involved in the events within the UK and further afield, but I've just arrived home and before I open the wine I wanted to say how grateful I am for so many people's time, energy, expertise and good humour today and in the run up to today. More anon. All best Lucy On 8 December 2016 at 20:24, Sara Thomas &lt;sa.thomas(a)live.com&gt; wrote: -- Lucy Crompton-Reid Chief Executive Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0991 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*