Thanks indeed. Good luck to all going forward.

Andreas

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Joe Filceolaire filceolaire@gmail.comwrote:

Thanks to all involved. This sounds like a good solution.

Joe On Feb 9, 2013 5:10 PM, "Chris Keating" chris.keating@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

...

Dear all,

I am pleased to announce that Wikimedia UK has reached an agreement with Roger Bamkin and Terence Eden regarding the ownership of QRpedia.

The intellectual property in QRpedia and the qrpedia.org and qrwp.orgdomains will be transferred to Wikimedia UK, which will maintain and support the development of the QRpedia platform for the future. Roger and Terence will act as honorary advisors to Wikimedia UK in this, as well as retaining their moral rights of attribution, but will not receive any financial consideration for this.

I am very pleased we have reached an agreement. I look forward to Wikimedia UK working to support QRpedia's future development. This includes defining our future involvement with the MonmouthpediA and GibraltarpediA projects. A fuller statement will follow.

Regards,

Chris Keating

-- Chris Keating Chair, Wikimedia UK @chriskeating chris.keating@wikimedia.org.uk

Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Charitable Company registered in England and Wales. Registered Company No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT

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On Feb 9, 2013 6:02 PM, "David Gerard" dgerard@gmail.com wrote:

On 9 February 2013 17:41, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:

...

This is great news. Well the fuller announcement include an explanation

of

...

why this took so long? It sounds like a very straightforward

agreement...

You were on the board and don't remember the speed of charities?

Do you realise just how long this has taken?

On 9 Feb 2013, at 18:52, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:

On 9 February 2013 18:39, Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org wrote:

...

Now this has been transferred to Wikimedia UK, would it be possible to remove the access logging on QRpedia to ensure it complies with both the letter and spirit of the WMF privacy policy. I am happy to provide a simple patch to this end as well as a code checkover. It may be sensible to run QRpedia code through WMF formal code review for security checking.

+1 - the WMF privacy rules are harsh compared to many, but readers love them so much they're actually a pretty good model, and I'd like to talk e.g. the RationalWiki Foundation into formally adopting them (we use them informally for a lot of stuff though not all). So this should be considered a useful thing to do that users will love :-)

WMUK doesn't yet have an established privacy policy for its projects (aside from its donor privacy policy) - which is something that should be corrected. However, it's not trivial to turn the WMF's privacy policy into one that WMUK can adopt, due to the differences between the projects that WMF operate vs. those that WMUK operate. Based on the WMF privacy policy, I've set out a draft WMUK privacy policy at: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy This needs further revision, and I'd encourage everyone receiving this email to directly make, or use the talk page to suggest, changes to this draft policy.

Thanks, Mike

On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 20:08, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 9 February 2013 18:39, Tom Morris <tom@tommorris.org (mailto:tom@tommorris.org)> wrote:

...

Now this has been transferred to Wikimedia UK, would it be possible to remove the access logging on QRpedia to ensure it complies with both the letter and spirit of the WMF privacy policy.

Is it possible to do that and retain the aggregated, anonymised statistics which GLAM institutions and others deploying QRpedia find useful? These may be analogous to Wikipedias page view stats.

That seems highly reasonable. The current issue is that the QRpedia database has a complete log of which IPs looked up which pages and when.

(Which is fine, I'm not blaming Roger or Terence. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do with something you are starting. This isn't a security hole or a privacy intrusion, it's a standard thing anyone would do when building a project like this. But now it has reached a point of maturity and is being taken under the wing of WMUK, we need to ensure that it is compliant with the expectations of Wikimedia users.)

We need to anonymise the access data, aggregate it and then delete the non-anonymised, non-aggregated data. I'm happy to fling code around and figure out a way to do this. I've had a look at the existing code and it's easy enough to understand. We could probably do with refactoring some of the code too.

I'd suggest that it would be best for WMUK to adhere completely with the Foundation's privacy policy (mentally substitute "chapter" and "WMUK" in the relevant places) even if the chapter is not formally bound by the Foundation policy (I'm not a movement policy wonk, I don't know). In addition, not holding on to access logs but only aggregate, anonymised data means that we minimise the potential for problems under the Data Protection Act or wider European data privacy law.

I'd suggest that we resolve these issues as soon as possible. The QRpedia transfer was rather a slow process, it'd be nice if now that the transfer has been agreed, we can make sure that we resolve these kinds of issues in the next week or so (I rather prefer fixing issues when they exist only in my head rather than when people are shouting like maniacs). As I said, I'm happy to provide patches and code review in the next few days.

WMUK staff/trustees: are there any plans for transferring the source code over to Wikimedia infrastructure (Gerrit etc.)?

@Joe, you are ahead of me. Wikidata is a great opportunity to improve the successful hit rate when we don't have a translation in icelandic or whatever. We may not have an article on that Finnish politician but we may well be able to tell you wikidata stuff that would tell you when she was born and died. I think I would like that as a good and quick guide to who she was.

@Tom - The privacy thing is an optimisation but as you say its a finesse to the security which ha/Davids been 3rd party assessed as good. And I thank you Tom particularly as you have been helping the project since its inception.

:@Andy - Attribution? Well of course although though I see in other conversations elsewhere that you should want to hide that you were backing a idea in good faith and assuming that if people said it would be made freely available then they meant it. Thanks very much

@Jennifer - can I buy you a beer? Its so nice to see someone who just likes good news.

I would like to thank all the people who have created the thousands of new articles and welcomed the new users and editors we have found. It rightly belongs to the community.

Roger

On 9 February 2013 23:52, Joe Filceolaire filceolaire@gmail.com wrote:

If we are looking at refactoring code then we should look at eventually moving to wikidata for language links.

Joe On Feb 9, 2013 10:39 PM, "Tom Morris" tom@tommorris.org wrote:

...

On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 20:08, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

On 9 February 2013 18:39, Tom Morris <tom@tommorris.org (mailto:

tom@tommorris.org)> wrote:

...

...

Now this has been transferred to Wikimedia UK, would it be possible to remove the access logging on QRpedia to ensure it complies with both

the

...

...

letter and spirit of the WMF privacy policy.

Is it possible to do that and retain the aggregated, anonymised statistics which GLAM institutions and others deploying QRpedia find useful? These may be analogous to Wikipedias page view stats.

That seems highly reasonable. The current issue is that the QRpedia database has a complete log of which IPs looked up which pages and when.

(Which is fine, I'm not blaming Roger or Terence. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do with something you are starting. This isn't a security hole or a privacy intrusion, it's a standard thing anyone would do when building a project like this. But now it has reached a point of maturity and is being taken under the wing of WMUK, we need to ensure that it is compliant with the expectations of Wikimedia users.)

We need to anonymise the access data, aggregate it and then delete the non-anonymised, non-aggregated data. I'm happy to fling code around and figure out a way to do this. I've had a look at the existing code and it's easy enough to understand. We could probably do with refactoring some of the code too.

I'd suggest that it would be best for WMUK to adhere completely with the Foundation's privacy policy (mentally substitute "chapter" and "WMUK" in the relevant places) even if the chapter is not formally bound by the Foundation policy (I'm not a movement policy wonk, I don't know). In addition, not holding on to access logs but only aggregate, anonymised data means that we minimise the potential for problems under the Data Protection Act or wider European data privacy law.

I'd suggest that we resolve these issues as soon as possible. The QRpedia transfer was rather a slow process, it'd be nice if now that the transfer has been agreed, we can make sure that we resolve these kinds of issues in the next week or so (I rather prefer fixing issues when they exist only in my head rather than when people are shouting like maniacs). As I said, I'm happy to provide patches and code review in the next few days.

WMUK staff/trustees: are there any plans for transferring the source code over to Wikimedia infrastructure (Gerrit etc.)?

-- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/

---

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On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org wrote:

On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 20:08, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

On 9 February 2013 18:39, Tom Morris <tom@tommorris.org (mailto:tom@tommorris.org)> wrote:

...

Now this has been transferred to Wikimedia UK, would it be possible to remove the access logging on QRpedia to ensure it complies with both the letter and spirit of the WMF privacy policy.

Is it possible to do that and retain the aggregated, anonymised statistics which GLAM institutions and others deploying QRpedia find useful? These may be analogous to Wikipedias page view stats.

That seems highly reasonable. The current issue is that the QRpedia database has a complete log of which IPs looked up which pages and when.

(Which is fine, I'm not blaming Roger or Terence. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do with something you are starting. This isn't a security hole or a privacy intrusion, it's a standard thing anyone would do when building a project like this. But now it has reached a point of maturity and is being taken under the wing of WMUK, we need to ensure that it is compliant with the expectations of Wikimedia users.)

We need to anonymise the access data, aggregate it and then delete the non-anonymised, non-aggregated data. I'm happy to fling code around and figure out a way to do this. I've had a look at the existing code and it's easy enough to understand. We could probably do with refactoring some of the code too.

I'd suggest that it would be best for WMUK to adhere completely with the Foundation's privacy policy (mentally substitute "chapter" and "WMUK" in the relevant places) even if the chapter is not formally bound by the Foundation policy (I'm not a movement policy wonk, I don't know). In addition, not holding on to access logs but only aggregate, anonymised data means that we minimise the potential for problems under the Data Protection Act or wider European data privacy law.

... that we resolve these kinds of issues in the next week or so (I rather prefer fixing issues when they exist only in my head rather than when people are shouting like maniacs). As I said, I'm happy to provide patches and code review in the next few days.

i'd highly appreciate this, many thanks tom! and thanks as well for reminding about policies, i suggested a task in the chapters association s task list to make clear(er) in the important policies if they should apply for the movement, and not only for the wmf: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Tasks

rupert.

There seems to be some confusion about QRpedia and QR codes. QRpedia is a site that makes QR codes - it is not the clever bit. The key part is qrwp.org that does the language switching. This can be used as a stand alone service, with QR codes or with NFC or other emerging technologies. A QRWP url can be sent by a Finn to a Korean and they will understand what is being described even though they speak different languages and both are blind.

Whos coming to Coventry?

On 10 February 2013 15:13, Jessica Taylor jessica.s.taylor71@gmail.comwrote:

@ Roger, I do like good news and beer. For beer you can call me Jennifer.

Jess

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:43 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.comwrote:

...

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org wrote:

...

On Saturday, 9 February 2013 at 20:08, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

On 9 February 2013 18:39, Tom Morris <tom@tommorris.org (mailto:

tom@tommorris.org)> wrote:

...

...

...

Now this has been transferred to Wikimedia UK, would it be possible

to

...

...

...

remove the access logging on QRpedia to ensure it complies with both

the

...

...

...

letter and spirit of the WMF privacy policy.

Is it possible to do that and retain the aggregated, anonymised statistics which GLAM institutions and others deploying QRpedia find useful? These may be analogous to Wikipedias page view stats.

That seems highly reasonable. The current issue is that the QRpedia

database has a complete log of which IPs looked up which pages and when.

...

(Which is fine, I'm not blaming Roger or Terence. That's a perfectly

reasonable thing to do with something you are starting. This isn't a security hole or a privacy intrusion, it's a standard thing anyone would do when building a project like this. But now it has reached a point of maturity and is being taken under the wing of WMUK, we need to ensure that it is compliant with the expectations of Wikimedia users.)

...

We need to anonymise the access data, aggregate it and then delete the

non-anonymised, non-aggregated data. I'm happy to fling code around and figure out a way to do this. I've had a look at the existing code and it's easy enough to understand. We could probably do with refactoring some of the code too.

...

I'd suggest that it would be best for WMUK to adhere completely with

the Foundation's privacy policy (mentally substitute "chapter" and "WMUK" in the relevant places) even if the chapter is not formally bound by the Foundation policy (I'm not a movement policy wonk, I don't know). In addition, not holding on to access logs but only aggregate, anonymised data means that we minimise the potential for problems under the Data Protection Act or wider European data privacy law.

...

... that we resolve these kinds of issues in the next week or so (I

rather prefer fixing issues when they exist only in my head rather than when people are shouting like maniacs). As I said, I'm happy to provide patches and code review in the next few days.

i'd highly appreciate this, many thanks tom! and thanks as well for reminding about policies, i suggested a task in the chapters association s task list to make clear(er) in the important policies if they should apply for the movement, and not only for the wmf: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Tasks

rupert.

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Thanks for the good news. Also, thanks to Roger and Terence for their hard work and willingness to be honorary advisers without pay. Finally, thanks to everyone like Andy who contributed to these projects. It's a testament to how productive WMUK is as part of the Wikimedia movement.

Jess

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.ukwrote:

On 9 February 2013 17:10, Chris Keating chris.keating@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

...

The intellectual property in QRpedia and the qrpedia.org and qrwp.org domains will be transferred to Wikimedia UK, which will maintain and

support

...

the development of the QRpedia platform for the future.

Hooray! Well done, Roger and Terence, and thank you.

...

Roger and Terence will [retain] their moral rights of attribution

I trust that that applies to those of us also credited, on QRpedia.org, for our contributions.

-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

---

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This is something I'm liaising on with the WMF. The original copy was put together jointly between WMF and WMUK and I'm keen that any revisions are accepted by both sides. I'm hopeful that we can get this fixed today.

Thanks,

Stevie

On 9 February 2013 20:40, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

On 9 February 2013 17:10, Chris Keating chris.keating@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

...

The intellectual property in QRpedia and the qrpedia.org and qrwp.org domains will be transferred to Wikimedia UK

It would be a good idea to update < http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2013/02/questions-and-answers-related-to-the-go...

...

ASAP (which I appreciate might mean Monday)

-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

---

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Thank you. While not meaning to be critical (we all seem to be walking on eggshells ATM), I'm surprised that that has less detail that Chris' recent announcement, in that it doesn't say anything of:

"The intellectual property in QRpedia and the qrpedia.org and qrwp.org domains will be transferred to Wikimedia UK, which will maintain and support the development of the QRpedia platform for the future."

Is there a reason for that?

On 11 February 2013 21:40, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

Hello everyone,

Just following this up. I've updated the relevant parts of the Q&A to reflect the agreement that Wikimedia UK has made with Roger Bamkin and Terence Eden, while retaining the integrity of the original. Jay Walsh will be doing the same on the WMF side.

If anyone has any questions please do let me know.

Many thanks,

Stevie

On 11 February 2013 13:21, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

...

This is something I'm liaising on with the WMF. The original copy was put together jointly between WMF and WMUK and I'm keen that any revisions are accepted by both sides. I'm hopeful that we can get this fixed today.

Thanks,

Stevie

On 9 February 2013 20:40, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

...

On 9 February 2013 17:10, Chris Keating chris.keating@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:

...

The intellectual property in QRpedia and the qrpedia.org and qrwp.org domains will be transferred to Wikimedia UK

It would be a good idea to update

http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2013/02/questions-and-answers-related-to-the-governance-review/ ASAP (which I appreciate might mean Monday)

-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

---

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--

Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.

--

Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.

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-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

On 07/06/13 11:28, Chris Keating wrote:

The delay has basically been down to the risk of patent litigation.

Openness gone out the window?

Gordo

hi chris, what will the solution be?

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hi Andreas,

Yes, of course.

The delay has basically been down to the risk of patent litigation.

At least one Wikimedia chapter has received letters from people who purport that QRpedia infringes on various patents.

We do not believe this is the case and do not believe the probability of being involved in actual litigation is high. However if it did happen it could be very costly.

So we have been taking advice on how to deal with this risk, and have reached a solution which will work. Roger and Terence have been very patiently waiting for this to be sorted out - apologies to them, and everyone else waiting for an outcome, for the delay.

Chris

Thanks, Chris.

A.

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More than willing to talk but there is nothing to say I'm afraid. We missed the occasion of GLAMwiki and the AGM. I am told that WMUK managed to form a company but the trustee who had created the agreements left the board at the AGM. Doug will be missed.

QRpedia is much more relevant to Freopedia, Joburgpedia and Gibraltarpedia. Over a thousand new articles, lots of plaques and new editors working on articles in new languages. Our third Featured article of the day in the next few days and the second QRpedia inspired project should make 1,000 articles next month.

The work at Walsal looks very impressive and there is work in Monmouthshire as well so progress is being made by lots of people.

R

On 24 June 2013 19:56, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:

Following up on this from earlier this month - it still appears that there is a delay in the transfer of the domain. Chris, Jon or Roger, please could you give an update? Thanks.

On 8 June 2013 09:48, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:

...

hi chris, what will the solution be?

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Chris Keating <

chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

...

Hi Andreas,

Yes, of course.

The delay has basically been down to the risk of patent litigation.

At least one Wikimedia chapter has received letters from people who purport that QRpedia infringes on various patents.

We do not believe this is the case and do not believe the probability

of

...

...

being involved in actual litigation is high. However if it did happen

it

...

...

could be very costly.

So we have been taking advice on how to deal with this risk, and have reached a solution which will work. Roger and Terence have been very patiently waiting for this to be sorted out - apologies to them, and everyone else waiting for an outcome, for the delay.

Chris

Thanks, Chris.

A.

-- Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone

Rupert,

I don't want to pre-empt others with deeper knowledge ot what is happening but the company was set up to hold QRpedia to offer WMUK extra protection in case there were any litigious issues from outsiders who sometimes come after bits of software. e.g. a South African company made a claim they had invented QRPedia a while back!

Our trustee dealing with this, Saad Choudri, is finalising the details but it is such a slow process.

Jon

On 25 June 2013 08:22, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

Why did wmuk form a company?

Rupert Am 24.06.2013 22:38 schrieb "Roger Bamkin" roger@bamkin.org.uk:

...

More than willing to talk but there is nothing to say I'm afraid. We missed the occasion of GLAMwiki and the AGM. I am told that WMUK managed to form a company but the trustee who had created the agreements left the board at the AGM. Doug will be missed.

QRpedia is much more relevant to Freopedia, Joburgpedia and Gibraltarpedia. Over a thousand new articles, lots of plaques and new editors working on articles in new languages. Our third Featured article of the day in the next few days and the second QRpedia inspired project should make 1,000 articles next month.

The work at Walsal looks very impressive and there is work in Monmouthshire as well so progress is being made by lots of people.

R

On 24 June 2013 19:56, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:

...

Following up on this from earlier this month - it still appears that there is a delay in the transfer of the domain. Chris, Jon or Roger, please could you give an update? Thanks.

On 8 June 2013 09:48, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:

...

hi chris, what will the solution be?

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Chris Keating <

chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

...

Hi Andreas,

Yes, of course.

The delay has basically been down to the risk of patent litigation.

At least one Wikimedia chapter has received letters from people who purport that QRpedia infringes on various patents.

We do not believe this is the case and do not believe the

probability of

...

...

being involved in actual litigation is high. However if it did

happen it

...

...

could be very costly.

So we have been taking advice on how to deal with this risk, and have reached a solution which will work. Roger and Terence have been very patiently waiting for this to be sorted out - apologies to them, and everyone else waiting for an outcome, for the delay.

Chris

Thanks, Chris.

A.

-- Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone

-- Roger Bamkin *+44 (0) 771 9790901* 01332 702993

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