I noticed the discussion previously about the type of organisation.
I understand Wiki v1 was a Company Limited by Guarantee and this proved to be a bit too onerous. (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/ea5e233643cbe7a39d43af65930f34fa/compdetai... shows the accounts and annual return were never filed)
As someone else has noted the Charitable Incorporated Organisation which simplified the admin side a little bit is not yet available.
The alternative is just set up as an unincorporated association. More details are here:
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc22.asp#9
The main problem with this is unlimited liabilities - if you are a member of the association and the association has a dispute with, say a venue, they could sue any member of the association as they would be jointly and severally liable.
Has this been considered before?
Andrew
On Wed, September 3, 2008 14:44, Andrew Turvey wrote:
I noticed the discussion previously about the type of organisation.
I understand Wiki v1 was a Company Limited by Guarantee and this proved to be a bit too onerous. (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/ea5e233643cbe7a39d43af65930f34fa/compdetai... shows the accounts and annual return were never filed)
As it happens, I spoke with Companies House this afternoon and they acknowledge that annual returns *were* filed, however many other records (inc. the registered Directors) are incorrect. So far as I was told at the time these changes were advised to CoHse using their web interface and, it seems to me, there is a fault in that system. Either way the company is presently being wound up and the process should complete by November (notices have to be published, etc, hence the delay)
The main problem with this is unlimited liabilities - if you are a member of the association and the association has a dispute with, say a venue, they could sue any member of the association as they would be jointly and severally liable.
Yes, and quickly set aside. When v1 was setting up we envisaged some substantial donations being made to WMUK and I don't see that being any less likely this time around. As a general rule, companies don't like giving money to unincorporated individuals as there is a whole lot of risk; they want a 'body corporate' which has to be public about everything where an unincorporated association can keep just about everything private.
Alison (still WMUK for the time being!)
The main problem with this is unlimited liabilities - if you are a member of the association and the association has a dispute with, say a venue, they could sue any member of the association as they would be jointly and severally liable.
Yes, and quickly set aside. When v1 was setting up we envisaged some substantial donations being made to WMUK and I don't see that being any less likely this time around. As a general rule, companies don't like giving money to unincorporated individuals as there is a whole lot of risk; they want a 'body corporate' which has to be public about everything where an unincorporated association can keep just about everything private.
Yes, we've also considered it and quickly set it aside, for much the same reasons and others. The fact that the board could be held liable for pretty much everything is an issue, as is the fact that any contract with the association would actually be a contract with the members of the board personally - would the WMF even want to sign the trademark agreement with individual Wikimedians (I'm not sure what happens with contracts like that if there's a change of board, but it can't be as simple as with an incorporated charity where there is no issue whatsoever)? Also, if we're as successful as we hope to be in the long term, there's a possibility of hiring staff which works much better if we're incorporated (if it's even possible otherwise). An unincorporated charity cannot own land, although I doubt that will be an issue (if we want an office, we'll most likely rent one).
Basically, associations work best for small charities that never expect to grow and have an extremely limited said of aims (the local school's parents-teachers association, say). That's not us.
BTW, Alison, since you've been talking to Companies House, I take it things are moving forward with the winding up. Do you have a timetable for that? While it's not essential, it would be great if the old chapter was completely gone by the time we get to the stage of wanting to sign an agreement with WMF (a couple of months yet at least, I would expect).
2008/9/3 Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com:
Yes, and quickly set aside. When v1 was setting up we envisaged some substantial donations being made to WMUK and I don't see that being any less likely this time around. As a general rule, companies don't like giving money to unincorporated individuals as there is a whole lot of risk; they want a 'body corporate' which has to be public about everything where an unincorporated association can keep just about everything private.
Yeah. Basically, the desired goal is an organisation that is a registered charity and can accept (a) tax-deductible donations (b) GIFT AID!
That's what you want. All else is to get to that goal. Anything that doesn't get to that goal, you should probably be doing something other than.
WER was not the right vehicle for this (despite much pushing uphill) and so it dies. Oh well, another entry in the corporate graveyard. That this coincided with complete burnout from all involved is in fact coincidence, but hey. Whatever can be got to work.
- d.
At 07:03 +0100 5/9/08, David Gerard wrote:
2008/9/3 Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com:
Yes, and quickly set aside. When v1 was setting up we envisaged some substantial donations being made to WMUK and I don't see that being any less likely this time around. As a general rule, companies don't like giving money to unincorporated individuals as there is a whole lot of risk; they want a 'body corporate' which has to be public about everything where an unincorporated association can keep just about everything private.
Yeah. Basically, the desired goal is an organisation that is a registered charity and can accept (a) tax-deductible donations (b) GIFT AID!
That's what you want. All else is to get to that goal. Anything that doesn't get to that goal, you should probably be doing something other than.
WER was not the right vehicle for this (despite much pushing uphill) and so it dies. Oh well, another entry in the corporate graveyard. That this coincided with complete burnout from all involved is in fact coincidence, but hey. Whatever can be got to work.
- d.
To date, no funds have been raised in the UK, with or without the income tax recovered. Hence, fund raising over the past two years was all USA based.
Gordo
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org