This is the sort of discussion that should be had on-wiki, just to arrive at some clarity about the fundamental issues.
I have raised the topic on Jimbo's talk page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Replacing_OTRS_with_a_com...
Andreas
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.comwrote:
On 3 October 2012 12:51, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 3 October 2012 12:26, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
(starting a new topic as this is a little wider than the original
thread,
hope that is OK)
I think it is clear that just letting OTRS handle it doesn't really work and people need more support than just an email address they can send things to and get back a lecture on Wikipedia policy and procedure,
Well, respectfully I disagree - at least in part.
OTRS very often works. It is because of the work of OTRS volunteers
there
aren't more news articles featuring prominent people who have had
little or
no success with Wikipedia!
Sorry, I shouldn't have said it doesn't work. I should have said it often doesn't work. It often does, but there are plenty of times when it doesn't. Don't forget the large number of cases which don't even get as far as someone emailing OTRS because they don't know how to do that.
Sure, that's an issue. I see where you are coming from (the Roth issue in large part stemmed from the fact that they ended up contacting the wrong place entirely!).
and judging by the number of attempts we see at setting up for-profit consultancy services for this, it would appear there is a market. (I think there is probably a market of companies and individuals that would be happier paying even if they could get the same thing done for free, just because they feel more confident in a paid service.)
The problem with this approach is that if you enter into a monetary contract with someone they have more expectation of a result. I'm not shouting down the idea outright - but it is much harder to turn around
to
someone and say "I'm sorry, but this content can't be changed" when
they are
paying you to do that... :D
It's a issue, certainly, but as long as you are completely clear about what it is you are doing I think it can work. The key would be to have an initial meeting where the client explains what it is they want to achieve and you tell them whether that is actually within Wikipedia policy. If it isn't, then you don't take it any further. You would only actually try and get changes made if you think there is a good chance of success. (Whether than initial meeting would be chargable or not, I don't know - that's a detail to be worked out.)
Yes, I suppose.
It's not so easy as that, though, speaking as an OTRS regular. One of two things can happen with regularity; a seemingly innocuous issue gets blown up by editors for no apparent reason, which leads to dramaz. Or, the initial concerns appear quite OK, but once you get onboard discussing with them it turns out they are more complex and fundamental.
I'm also concerned that the target market consists of mainly two types of client:
- One that wants to rewrite large portions of the article
- One that wants very minor issues fixed ("Please correct this logo", "Our
CEO has changed", "that source refers to someone else!") etc.
Having an upfront meeting with the latter is not worth it, as this will likely take longer than resolving the issue. And the former represents the minefield I mentioned.
I also suspect that the En.Wiki community would reject anyone being able to do any substantive work on articles under such a scheme.
That sort of thing could be done as well, but I doubt many people want to learn how to navigate the minefield that is Wikipedia just in order to fix a few errors in an article. They just want to pay someone to sort it out.
I am actually thinking along those lines... I'm not talking about editor recruitment type things.
But more "hi everyone, these are the Wikipedia policies, and why we have them" and then let them loose with a room full of editors who can sit and work through specific issues. With the benefit that everyone is at educated in at least the rudiments of policy.
Tom
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