Estavam discutindo sobre Wikipedia vs Capitulo, em relação a catalã, e
Wikimedia Es, e ela *colocou fora do contexto*, por isso não coloquei o
contexto, não era necessário, mas eu o coloquei abaixo. Você está sendo
ingenua, o "i have same question" não tem nada nexo, e se você conhecesse a
Béria saberia que ela gosta de fuder, e você pode ver no meta como ela
gosta, não há referência nenhuma sobre o capítulo local na página da
Wikimedia Brasil.
Se procurar, no primeiro Campus Party que nós participamos, para garantimos
a nossa entrada com direito a dormir no local e entrada, só deveríamos
enviar nossos dados, mesmo a Béria se mostrando contrária as nossas opiniões
naquela época, ela se prontificou em fazer e aceitamos ( a mesma ingenuidade
sua), em resumo, ela não enviou, sem dar explicações, tendo acesso a
internet, pois continuava a editar na Pedia-pt, e não houve se quer um
"desculpe".
Ao Fabio, ela ainda está na lista mesmo sendo contrária ao Movimento desde
2008, mas veja se a nossa opinião está nessa página:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil
E ao João, eu faço coisas, quando você foi fazer algo? Quando você foi
realizar um evento? Não é reclamação é um pedido de expulsão ou sanção.
E ai Cecília, você teve a resposta da Béria no outro email, sobre a outra
coisa que ela fez e essa não foi justificada, qual a sua opinião? Ela não
fez nada pelas costas? "Falar" com o Brasil não foi bem o que ela fez. E
ainda está bem excluso, quem do ChapCom? Quem do "Brasil"? Se ela está em
Portugal e se porta como se Brasil fosse merda, porque a opinião dela vale?
E pior, porque a opinião dela vale mais do que a de todos os outros? Manda
uma resposta show pra isso.
Hi all,
I just learned today of a very disturbing piece of news. Apparently, in
an.wikipedia.org, users cannot post Chapter-related news, as they are
considered spam. From what I have been able to find out, on February 18th,
user:Millars posted a message on the talk page of Wikipedia:Embaxata
(Wikipedia:Embassy), about the creation of Wikimedia España.[1] It made
sense as people from an.wikipedia had previously shown an interest on the
development of this chapter.
This message was immediately undone by an admin, user:Manuel Trujillo
Berges, on the grounds of it being spam.[2] Another user, user: Elisardojm,
undid that contribution and restored the message,[3] and again user:Manuel
Trujillo Berges undid it.[4] Not only that, he also blocked user:Elisadorjm
three days for spam (without even one warning).[5] User:Millars asked for
the opinion of another admin as he disagreed on both the block and the
characterization of the news about this new chapter as being spam, receiving
in return a response that basically said that other admins are not going to
contradict user:Manuel Trujillo Berges's decision.[6]
Following this, user:Manuel Trujillo Berges has stated unambiguosly that
members of this (or any, I guess, but he especifically mentioned WMES)
chapter will be indefinitely blocked if they try to "spam" or "troll"
again
with chapter news.[7][8]
We're the new chapter in the block, but my guess is, surely other chapters
have faced similar situations in the past? What is the consensus here?
Because you can see that admins at an. will not budge on this one. How
should this be treated? How have you dealt with these kind of situations
before (people that don't believe chapters are good for anything, and are in
fact quite hostile to them)? Lots of patience and a steward now and then? :)
I'd appreciate your insights.
María
Wikimedia España
[1]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_Wikipedia:Embaixat…
[2]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_Wikipedia:Embaixat…
[3]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_Wikipedia:Embaixat…
[4]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_Wikipedia:Embaixat…
[5]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Espezial:Rechistro&type=block…
[6]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_usuario%3AMillars&…
[7]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_usuario:Willtron&a…
[8]
http://an.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Descusi%C3%B3n_usuario%3AElisardo…
[...]
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: M <kewlshrink(a)yahoo.es>
Date: 2 March 2011 13:03
Subject: Re: [Chapters] Rights of "no-chapters" (was: What to do when a
Wikipedia is hostile to chapters?)
To: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions <chapters(a)wikimedia.ch>
...I actually thought they had been (finally) approved. That is not the
case??
María
I have the same question about the self named "Wikimedia Brasil" (real name:
Multirões pelo Conhecimento Livre). Why WMF allow those people to act and
talk in their name?
_____
*Béria Lima*
Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt/>
(351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer.*
2011/3/2 marcos <tal_tor9(a)yahoo.es>
People of Amical works well and last for obtain hi
aims. But sometimes I
cannot allow wondering brings over of the nature of these aims.
Many people out of Spain do not know the real situation of Catalonia: it is
an Autonomous Community with a very high level of self-government, with it's
own parliament, it's own govern, in that the Catalan is a coofficial
language together with the Spanish (notice, please, that this not an
opinion, but the verification of a fact).
Certain sectors of the Catalan society look for other things, and they 're
in his right, naturally. But instead of adapting to the procedure, they
claim that the procedure adapt to them. Probably it is good to ask ourselves
why so many insistence...
I understand that there are allowed to planned chapters (even chapters in
idscussion phase) that they use (with some limit) the logos and registered
trade marks of Wikimedia Foundation. What I do not understand is that Amical
uses indiscriminately, being made pass as a chapter, when they're rejected
expressly by resolution of the ChapCom...
In Spain we say: " Or all Moors, or all Christians" , in other words, the
procedure must be equal for the whole world, so if not, not to be just.
IMHO.
Marcos (aka Marctaltor)
--- El *mar, 1/3/11, Andrew Owens <orderinchaos78(a)gmail.com>* escribió:
De: Andrew Owens <orderinchaos78(a)gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [Chapters] What to do when a Wikipedia is hostile to chapters?
Para: "Wikimedia Chapters general discussions" <chapters(a)wikimedia.ch>
Fecha: martes, 1 de marzo, 2011 23:18
That's pretty unfortunate :/ Thanks for sharing that Marcos.
It's a shame (and I am being awfully idealistic here) there isn't a way
that we can explain to them that we're not interested in politics but about
growing Wikimedia. If the Aragonese or Catalan communities have funds
through the chapter to do projects which advance the cause of free knowledge
in their own language, and promote their language and culture, then everyone
benefits. But I suspect for some people these things "run in the blood", so
to speak, so the challenges are much greater.
kindest regards
Andrew (WM Australia; personal opinion)
On 2 March 2011 01:52, marcos <tal_tor9(a)yahoo.es> wrote:
Thank you for your response. It's true, in Spain we have a problem; not so
much with the catlan speaker people (inside WM - ES they are and they
organize his events in Catalan when they wish it), but with some of the
persons who direct certain groups, with which it is impossible to speak. You
send them words and they throw you stones...pearls like " WM - ES it is a
sack of lies " or that some people of WN-ES are "imperlistic" and
"cultural
genocides". (like in
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna#Wikimedia_Espa.C3.B…)
With them we have lost the hope to speak, because everything what is not
that it exists a chapter WM_CAT for them is not asumible. I must confess,
also, that I have few ones desire of speaking with whom despises me. In
short it is one " with me or against me ". This it is the problem that
arises when the politics is mixed by the free knowledge ... and if it`s
true thatthe politics is a part( of the free knowledge, the free knowledge
must not be politic.
Of course, It is my personal opinion, not WM-ES' official position
Marcos (aka Marctaltor)
--- El *mar, 1/3/11, Andrew Turvey <andrewrturvey(a)googlemail.xn--com>*escribi-9rbcribió:
De: Andrew Turvey <andrewrturvey(a)googlemail.com>
Asunto: Re: [Chapters] What to do when a Wikipedia is hostile to chapters?
Para: "Wikimedia Chapters general discussions" <chapters(a)wikimedia.ch>
Fecha: martes, 1 de marzo, 2011 18:19
Thanks for bring this issue up. I think all chapters, particularly
newly established ones, have to establish their credibility and value
among the Wikimedian communities we are working with. We're lucky in
Britain that our local english-speaking community has shown an
enormous amount of goodwill and support for the chapter, even from
people who aren't involved in our activities.
Minority languages, on the other hand, seem to be a very different
experience. We have made several attempts to engage Welsh-speaking
Wikimedians, for instance, and have had a fairly cool response. The
main reply has been along the lines of "why should we join Wikimedia
UK, I'd rather set up Wikimedia Wales". Of course, minority language
speaking often goes hand in hand with political separatism and we
should be aware of that, even if we aren't part of that perspective.
My approach and advice would always be to try, try and try again. Of
course there is a line, and if that line is crossed repeatedly you
would be right to challenge it. Maybe not now, though - it would be
easier after you have some solid acheivements under your belt and have
more influence locally.
However, can I bring to your attention another issue regarding
Wikimedia Espana. The terms "Wikimedia" and "Wikipedia" are
trademarked words by the Wikimedia Foundation and may only be used
with permission. I imagine the situation in Spain is the same as in
Britain, that only the recognised chapter, Wikimedia Espana, has
permission to use that trademark.
I've recently noticed that Amical, the association of Catalan speaking
Wikimedians, is organising a "GLAM-WIKI" conference in Barcelona on
March 23rd. It's great that they're doing this event, and it shouldn't
be discouraged. However, they seem to be advertising the event,
particularly through facebook and twitter, using the name "Wikimedia
CAT". This seems unacceptable, and now that we have an official
Wikimedia chapter covering Catalonia, unnecessary.
For the sake of all Wikimedia chapters everywhere, could you
investigate and take action to correct this situation.
Regards,
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:34 PM, M <kewlshrink(a)yahoo.es> wrote:
Thanks everyone for the many thoughtful
responses. :) Apparently, it's
not as unique a situation as might be expected.
Unfortunately.
It is interesting that several people here place the responsibility
entirely on
the chapter (find someone from the community to post there, do
wikimeetups, do other activities -you do realise that all these imply
reaching out, kinda difficult if you're not allowed to!). And that even if
no one here has even suggested that what happened at an.wiki is acceptable
on-wiki behavior towards other wikipedians who happen to support a chapter.
It does make one wonder if the people that support chapters, unknowingly,
perhaps
out of fear of being shown as the terrible demons (roar!) that only
wish to control Wikipedia, tend to allow "abusive" (for lack of a better
word) on-wiki conducts that they'd never stand for in any other wiki
situations.
I'm just thinking out loud. :) I do have in mind how Wikimedia Argentina
was
for all intents and purposes banned from the Spanish Wikipedia VP. Now
this. And apparently other chapters have met similar (invisible?
psychological?) barriers when trying to reach out to the communities.
I'm all for the zen approach, but even at the expense of allowing such
barriers to perpetuate?
Cheers,
María
PD: Siska, nice last paragraph xD
Mensaje enviado desde mi iTouch
El 28/02/2011, a las 11:17, Siska Doviana <siska.doviana(a)wikimedia.or.id>
escribió:
Hullo M,
It's not new. I remember at one time Wikimedia Indonesia is denied a
site notice for announcing an ICT Conference by the government where
WMID receives a charity "room" and computer for free to train public
on how to write wikipedia. Since they deny notice, only 7 people show
up, in a room with the capacity of 40. Last year, with the site
notice, around 100 people show up in two days.
They way we handle it, we chill, I personally know it is going to have
a low turn out. The admin (one that deny site notice) show up to this
event, and since I was in another city when getting this report. I
emailed everyone and pointed out to the member that the attitude of
INSIST on independency between chapter and wikipedia is okay but
costly. Namely it can cost (WMID) not getting a room for next year
because our low audience turn out.
Stupid is what stupid does, don't contradict, play along and kick ass.
It usually achieve better result.
--
Siska Doviana | Direktur Eksekutif (Executive Director) 2011-2012
Wikimedia Indonesia
Cell. +62 816 484 5052
~~~~
Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan:
http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
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