People
of Amical works well and last for obtain hi aims. But sometimes I
cannot allow wondering brings over of the nature of these aims.
Many people out of Spain do not know the real situation of
Catalonia: it is an Autonomous Community with a very high level of
self-government, with it's own parliament, it's own govern, in that the
Catalan is a coofficial language together with the Spanish (notice,
please, that this not an opinion, but the verification of a fact).
Certain sectors of the Catalan society look for other things, and
they 're in his right, naturally. But instead of adapting to the
procedure, they claim that the procedure adapt to them. Probably it is
good to ask ourselves why so many insistence...
I understand that there are allowed to planned chapters (even
chapters in idscussion phase) that they use (with some limit)
the logos and registered trade marks of Wikimedia Foundation. What I do
not understand is that Amical uses indiscriminately, being made pass as
a chapter, when they're rejected expressly by resolution of the
ChapCom...
In Spain we say: " Or all Moors, or all Christians" , in other
words, the procedure must be equal for the whole world, so if not, not
to be just. IMHO.
Marcos (aka Marctaltor)
--- El mar, 1/3/11, Andrew Owens <orderinchaos78@gmail.com> escribió:
De: Andrew Owens <orderinchaos78@gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [Chapters] What to do when a Wikipedia is hostile to chapters?
Para: "Wikimedia Chapters general discussions" <chapters@wikimedia.ch>
Fecha: martes, 1 de marzo, 2011 23:18
That's pretty unfortunate :/ Thanks for sharing that Marcos.
It's
a
shame (and I am being awfully idealistic here) there isn't a way that
we can explain to them that we're not interested in politics but about
growing Wikimedia. If the Aragonese or Catalan communities have funds
through the chapter to do projects which advance the cause of free
knowledge in their own language, and promote their language and culture,
then everyone benefits. But I suspect for some people these things "run
in the blood", so to speak, so the challenges are much greater.
kindest regards
Andrew (WM Australia; personal opinion)
On 2 March 2011 01:52, marcos <tal_tor9@yahoo.es> wrote:
Thank
you for your response. It's true, in Spain we have a problem; not so
much with the catlan speaker people (inside WM - ES they are and they
organize his events in Catalan when they wish it), but with some of the
persons who direct certain groups, with which it is impossible to speak.
You send them words and they throw you stones...pearls like " WM - ES it is a sack of lies " or that some people of WN-ES are "imperlistic" and "cultural genocides". (like in http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna#Wikimedia_Espa.C3.B1a_parla_de_nosaltres )
With them we have lost the hope to speak, because everything
what is not that it exists a chapter WM_CAT for them is not asumible. I
must confess, also, that I have few ones desire of speaking with whom
despises me. In short it is one " with me or against me ". This it is
the problem that arises when the politics is mixed by the free
knowledge ... and if it`s true thatthe politics is a part( of the free
knowledge, the free knowledge must not be politic.
Of course, It is my personal opinion, not WM-ES' official position
Marcos (aka Marctaltor)
--- El mar, 1/3/11, Andrew Turvey <andrewrturvey@googlemail.com> escribió:
De: Andrew Turvey <andrewrturvey@googlemail.com>
Asunto: Re: [Chapters] What to do when a Wikipedia is hostile to chapters?
Para: "Wikimedia Chapters general discussions" <chapters@wikimedia.ch>
Fecha: martes, 1 de marzo, 2011
18:19
Thanks for bring this issue up. I think all chapters, particularly
newly established ones, have to establish their credibility and value
among the Wikimedian communities we are working with. We're lucky in
Britain that our local english-speaking community has shown an
enormous amount of goodwill and support for the chapter, even from
people who aren't involved in our activities.
Minority languages, on the other hand, seem to be a very different
experience. We have made several attempts to engage Welsh-speaking
Wikimedians, for instance, and have had a fairly cool response. The
main reply has been along the lines of "why should we join Wikimedia
UK, I'd rather set up Wikimedia Wales". Of course, minority language
speaking often goes hand in hand with political separatism and we
should be aware of that, even if we aren't part of that perspective.
My approach and advice
would always be to try, try and try again. Of
course there is a line, and if that line is crossed repeatedly you
would be right to challenge it. Maybe not now, though - it would be
easier after you have some solid acheivements under your belt and have
more influence locally.
However, can I bring to your attention another issue regarding
Wikimedia Espana. The terms "Wikimedia" and "Wikipedia" are
trademarked words by the Wikimedia Foundation and may only be used
with permission. I imagine the situation in Spain is the same as in
Britain, that only the recognised chapter, Wikimedia Espana, has
permission to use that trademark.
I've recently noticed that Amical, the association of Catalan speaking
Wikimedians, is organising a "GLAM-WIKI" conference in Barcelona on
March 23rd. It's great that they're doing this event, and it shouldn't
be discouraged. However, they seem to be advertising the
event,
particularly through facebook and twitter, using the name "Wikimedia
CAT". This seems unacceptable, and now that we have an official
Wikimedia chapter covering Catalonia, unnecessary.
For the sake of all Wikimedia chapters everywhere, could you
investigate and take action to correct this situation.
Regards,
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:34 PM, M <kewlshrink@yahoo.es> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the many thoughtful responses. :) Apparently,
it's not as unique a situation as might be expected. Unfortunately.
>
>
It is interesting that several people here place the responsibility
entirely on the chapter (find someone from the community to post there,
do wikimeetups, do other activities -you do realise that all these imply
reaching out, kinda difficult if you're not allowed to!). And that even
if no one
here has even suggested that what happened at an.wiki is acceptable
on-wiki behavior towards other wikipedians who happen to support a
chapter.
>
> It does make one wonder if the people that
support chapters, unknowingly, perhaps out of fear of being shown as the
terrible demons (roar!) that only wish to control Wikipedia, tend to
allow "abusive" (for lack of a better word) on-wiki conducts that they'd
never stand for in any other wiki situations.
>
> I'm just thinking out loud. :) I do have in mind how
Wikimedia Argentina was for all intents and purposes banned from the
Spanish Wikipedia VP. Now this. And apparently other chapters have met
similar (invisible? psychological?) barriers when trying to reach out to
the communities.
>
> I'm all for the zen approach, but even at the expense of allowing such barriers to perpetuate?
>
> Cheers,
>
> María
>
> PD: Siska, nice last paragraph
xD
>
> Mensaje enviado desde mi iTouch
>
> El 28/02/2011, a las 11:17, Siska Doviana <siska.doviana@wikimedia.or.id> escribió:
>
>> Hullo M,
>> It's not new. I remember at one time Wikimedia Indonesia is denied a
>> site notice for announcing an ICT Conference by the government where
>> WMID receives a charity "room" and computer for free to train public
>> on how to write wikipedia. Since they deny notice, only 7 people show
>> up, in a room with the capacity of 40. Last year, with the site
>> notice, around 100 people show up in two days.
>> They way we handle it, we chill, I personally know it is going to have
>> a low turn out. The admin (one that deny site notice) show up to this
>> event, and since I was in another
city when getting this report. I
>> emailed everyone and pointed out to the member that the attitude of
>> INSIST on independency between chapter and wikipedia is okay but
>> costly. Namely it can cost (WMID) not getting a room for next year
>> because our low audience turn out.
>>
>> Stupid is what stupid does, don't contradict, play along and kick ass.
>> It usually achieve better result.
>>
>> --
>> Siska Doviana | Direktur Eksekutif (Executive Director) 2011-2012
>> Wikimedia Indonesia
>> Cell. +62 816 484 5052
>> ~~~~
>> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan:
>> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chapters mailing list
>> Chapters@wikimedia.ch
>> http://lists.wikimedia.ch/listinfo/chapters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chapters mailing list
> Chapters@wikimedia.ch
> http://lists.wikimedia.ch/listinfo/chapters
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