Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
Hello Jon and thank you for the proposal,
I took a look at the Mossi Wikipedia, and indeed it seems that there is a good activity there, ans also the quality of many existing articles is really good. However, there are some points that I think need to be taken into consideration before moving forward:
1- many articles (even the bigger ones) do not have a single reference, and come of them are messy with just big chunks of text or very short (example: Busa, Guure). If these editors will be the future administrators, I think that they really need to be trained before. What do you think?
2- the home page is fully written in English. This probably needs to be fixed before approval?
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
I hope that this feedback is helpful, but so far, well done for the Mossi community!
Best regards,
Anass
في ثلاثاء، 13 يونيو، 2023 في 22:41، كتب Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
ons. 14. juni 2023 kl. 17:29 skrev Anass Sedrati sedranas@gmail.com:
Hello Jon and thank you for the proposal,
I took a look at the Mossi Wikipedia, and indeed it seems that there is a good activity there, ans also the quality of many existing articles is really good. However, there are some points that I think need to be taken into consideration before moving forward:
1- many articles (even the bigger ones) do not have a single reference, and come of them are messy with just big chunks of text or very short (example: Busa, Guure). If these editors will be the future administrators, I think that they really need to be trained before. What do you think?
This is normal for new and emerging Wikipedia editions, and I am very skeptical of judging a new Wikipedia by the standards of well-established Wikipedias that have existed for decades. Of course, it is good to encourage best practices from the beginning, but I feel this is something each community must decide for themselves, if that makes sense.
2- the home page is fully written in English. This probably needs to be fixed before approval?
Ideally, yes, but I don't consider that a blocker for approval. Their current main page is just a "bare-bones" entry for contributors, and I expect they will replace it with a more proper main page once it is created.
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
This edition (and many others) use a standardized infobox template called "Databox" which fetches things from Wikidata automatically. If there are labels in Mossi for the items mentioned in the infoboxes, the Mossi label will be used (well, at least in the created wiki – I haven't checked whether that's implemented for Incubator test wikis, but I think it is). (Side note: I have been thinking of making a gadget for the Norwegian Bokmål Wikipedia that makes it easy to add Norwegian labels directly from the infobox without having to visit Wikipedia. Such a gadget could also be useful for the Incubator.) The Databox template can indeed be a bit big and unwieldy at times, but I think it's still better than nothing. It is also meant to be easy to set up and use without having knowledge about the Lua code that is necessary to make more sophisticated Wikidata templates.
I hope that this feedback is helpful, but so far, well done for the Mossi community!
Best regards,
Anass
في ثلاثاء، 13 يونيو، 2023 في 22:41، كتب Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.com
:
Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- Skickat från Gmail Mobile _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hello Jon and thank you for the details,
Also related to the same subject, I have noticed that two other projects you shared (dga, kus) have exactly the same points. They have also many articles that are about the same people, and use the same structure. I do not know if the three of them were done together or in some collaboration, but it can be worth to check with language experts to make sure that every version is really independent from the other and not that one language is used in all the three.
Otherwise, I agree with your observations related to requirements between established and new wikis, but we need still to ensure that the future admins know at least the basics of references, neutrality, notability and important rules. I assume that there is no onboarding process, but it can be something worth investigating to ensure and good and sustainable wiki.
Best regards,
Anass
في أربعاء، 14 يونيو، 2023 في 17:50، كتب Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
ons. 14. juni 2023 kl. 17:29 skrev Anass Sedrati sedranas@gmail.com:
Hello Jon and thank you for the proposal,
I took a look at the Mossi Wikipedia, and indeed it seems that there is a good activity there, ans also the quality of many existing articles is really good. However, there are some points that I think need to be taken into consideration before moving forward:
1- many articles (even the bigger ones) do not have a single reference, and come of them are messy with just big chunks of text or very short (example: Busa, Guure). If these editors will be the future administrators, I think that they really need to be trained before. What do you think?
This is normal for new and emerging Wikipedia editions, and I am very skeptical of judging a new Wikipedia by the standards of well-established Wikipedias that have existed for decades. Of course, it is good to encourage best practices from the beginning, but I feel this is something each community must decide for themselves, if that makes sense.
2- the home page is fully written in English. This probably needs to be fixed before approval?
Ideally, yes, but I don't consider that a blocker for approval. Their current main page is just a "bare-bones" entry for contributors, and I expect they will replace it with a more proper main page once it is created.
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
This edition (and many others) use a standardized infobox template called "Databox" which fetches things from Wikidata automatically. If there are labels in Mossi for the items mentioned in the infoboxes, the Mossi label will be used (well, at least in the created wiki – I haven't checked whether that's implemented for Incubator test wikis, but I think it is). (Side note: I have been thinking of making a gadget for the Norwegian Bokmål Wikipedia that makes it easy to add Norwegian labels directly from the infobox without having to visit Wikipedia. Such a gadget could also be useful for the Incubator.) The Databox template can indeed be a bit big and unwieldy at times, but I think it's still better than nothing. It is also meant to be easy to set up and use without having knowledge about the Lua code that is necessary to make more sophisticated Wikidata templates.
I hope that this feedback is helpful, but so far, well done for the Mossi community!
Best regards,
Anass
في ثلاثاء، 13 يونيو، 2023 في 22:41، كتب Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.com
:
Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- Skickat från Gmail Mobile _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Tiõrv!
If the labels are in Mossi, they should show up in Mossi even in the incubator since the Skolt Saami ones show up in the incubator in Skolt when they exist:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/sms/L%C3%A4%C3%A4%CA%B9ddj%C3%A2nnam [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/T%C3%B6%C3%B6l%C3%...]https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/sms/L%C3%A4%C3%A4%CA%B9ddj%C3%A2nnam Lääʹddjânnam - Wp/sms - Wikimedia Incubatorhttps://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/sms/L%C3%A4%C3%A4%CA%B9ddj%C3%A2nnam incubator.wikimedia.org It can look pretty ugly though when only some of them are translated as can be seen from the text "jiõččnaž valdia, valdia, unitary state, valdia Nuõrtimiâr reeddast, OECD-valdia" under the photo. But I think these are things that are easily fixable (preferably by translating than by hiding the untranslated labels and descriptions).
I've added a lot of properties that are pointless to show on the blacklist for smswp; perhaps more of them could be added to the general databox template.
By the way, one of the things I like most about the databox template is that the projects it is used on don't have to each find a contributor or two to spend a lot of time learning to create a template like it. One template and it works across projects (as well as it can when thing aren't always (yet) translated into each language).
d. Kimberli ________________________________ From: Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2023 6:49 PM To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Mossi Wikipedia
ons. 14. juni 2023 kl. 17:29 skrev Anass Sedrati <sedranas@gmail.commailto:sedranas@gmail.com>: Hello Jon and thank you for the proposal,
I took a look at the Mossi Wikipedia, and indeed it seems that there is a good activity there, ans also the quality of many existing articles is really good. However, there are some points that I think need to be taken into consideration before moving forward:
1- many articles (even the bigger ones) do not have a single reference, and come of them are messy with just big chunks of text or very short (example: Busa, Guure). If these editors will be the future administrators, I think that they really need to be trained before. What do you think?
This is normal for new and emerging Wikipedia editions, and I am very skeptical of judging a new Wikipedia by the standards of well-established Wikipedias that have existed for decades. Of course, it is good to encourage best practices from the beginning, but I feel this is something each community must decide for themselves, if that makes sense.
2- the home page is fully written in English. This probably needs to be fixed before approval?
Ideally, yes, but I don't consider that a blocker for approval. Their current main page is just a "bare-bones" entry for contributors, and I expect they will replace it with a more proper main page once it is created.
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
This edition (and many others) use a standardized infobox template called "Databox" which fetches things from Wikidata automatically. If there are labels in Mossi for the items mentioned in the infoboxes, the Mossi label will be used (well, at least in the created wiki – I haven't checked whether that's implemented for Incubator test wikis, but I think it is). (Side note: I have been thinking of making a gadget for the Norwegian Bokmål Wikipedia that makes it easy to add Norwegian labels directly from the infobox without having to visit Wikipedia. Such a gadget could also be useful for the Incubator.) The Databox template can indeed be a bit big and unwieldy at times, but I think it's still better than nothing. It is also meant to be easy to set up and use without having knowledge about the Lua code that is necessary to make more sophisticated Wikidata templates.
I hope that this feedback is helpful, but so far, well done for the Mossi community!
Best regards,
Anass
في ثلاثاء، 13 يونيو، 2023 في 22:41، كتب Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.commailto:jhsoby@gmail.com>: Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org -- Skickat från Gmail Mobile _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby
בתאריך יום ד׳, 14 ביוני 2023 ב-18:29 מאת Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello Jon and thank you for the proposal,
I took a look at the Mossi Wikipedia, and indeed it seems that there is a good activity there, ans also the quality of many existing articles is really good. However, there are some points that I think need to be taken into consideration before moving forward:
1- many articles (even the bigger ones) do not have a single reference, and come of them are messy with just big chunks of text or very short (example: Busa, Guure). If these editors will be the future administrators, I think that they really need to be trained before. What do you think?
It's true, and it happens in many languages. There has never been a strict rule about this in the Language committee. Here's my practice: I don't want to enforce it or turn it into a blocker for approval. The most important thing for me is the ability to write the prose of the articles with some very basic formatting—links, headings, and not much more. This is the most important ability that involves *language*, and we are the *language* committee.
Having good references in an encyclopedia written by self-selected volunteers is, generally, a good thing. This understanding developed in Wikipedias in the big languages in the mid-2000s, because there was no other way to keep them reliable and to keep the arguments about facts to a minimum (eliminating them completely is, evidently, impossible).
However, I don't want to *enforce* the rules of the Wikipedia in English, German, Russian, etc., on Wikipedias that are just beginning. I only want to suggest them as a good idea, and to let each community develop the details.
Perhaps a minimal global policy for referencing could be developed. However, it probably shouldn't be done by the Language committee, but by some other cross-language body.
And *some* short and low-quality articles are also not a blocker. If there were *a lot* of those, then maybe I'd have doubts, but in this case, I wouldn't call it "a lot".
2- the home page is fully written in English. This probably needs to be
fixed before approval?
Lol, it's one of those main pages that I create just so that the project will have *some* main page :)
Editing main pages is excruciatingly difficult, in all languages. As I've written above, the most important thing for me is the language of the articles. The *look* of the main page is less important. The language is, but this one is very short, and I asked them to translate it. So, not a serious blocker.
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
Sigh. It's also correct, and also not a blocker. But this is a demonstration of a few things I've been telling everyone for years: 1. People in pretty much all languages want infoboxes. 2. Copying intricate infoboxes from English, French, or Russian is terribly difficult. 3. Copying the {{Databox}} is easier, so even if the result is less satisfying than what the boxes in English or French provide, 4. There must be a global repository of templates so that it would be easy to share them. Just in case someone hasn't already seen my proposal about it, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Global_templates/Proposed_specification,_shor...
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic
because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
Sigh. It's also correct, and also not a blocker. But this is a demonstration of a few things I've been telling everyone for years:
- People in pretty much all languages want infoboxes.
- Copying intricate infoboxes from English, French, or Russian is
terribly difficult. 3. Copying the {{Databox}} is easier, so even if the result is less satisfying than what the boxes in English or French provide, 4. There must be a global repository of templates so that it would be easy to share them. Just in case someone hasn't already seen my proposal about it, see
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Global_templates/Proposed_specification,_shor...
... And, just as I was writing this, someone sent me this thing: "I am currently developing Wikipedia for Betawi on Incubator. But, there are still a lot of missing templates. I have an intention to solve this. What are the templates that should be made on our incubator page? Thanks."
(See https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=User_talk:Bangrapip&oldid=116615... at the bottom.)
I get such questions so frequently that I started making a list at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Amire80/Requests_for_template_support . That list is VERY far from being complete.
Hello all,
Thank you very much for your insights, emerging from your big experience and expertise in the area. I like the approach and that we should be more encouraging (and do not have a specific problem with accepting the suggested projects). What we might need to think about would be if we should have some grading templates or global policies that need to be drafted (maybe not by the Langcom, but we should transmit the idea to those that we think shall do it). What do you think?
Best regards,
Anass
On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:54 AM Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic
because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b) none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is also something the editors need probably to look into?
Sigh. It's also correct, and also not a blocker. But this is a demonstration of a few things I've been telling everyone for years:
- People in pretty much all languages want infoboxes.
- Copying intricate infoboxes from English, French, or Russian is
terribly difficult. 3. Copying the {{Databox}} is easier, so even if the result is less satisfying than what the boxes in English or French provide, 4. There must be a global repository of templates so that it would be easy to share them. Just in case someone hasn't already seen my proposal about it, see
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Global_templates/Proposed_specification,_shor...
... And, just as I was writing this, someone sent me this thing: "I am currently developing Wikipedia for Betawi on Incubator. But, there are still a lot of missing templates. I have an intention to solve this. What are the templates that should be made on our incubator page? Thanks."
(See https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=User_talk:Bangrapip&oldid=116615... at the bottom.)
I get such questions so frequently that I started making a list at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Amire80/Requests_for_template_support . That list is VERY far from being complete.
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
No objection from me.
Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:41 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.com
:
Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
When pages are randomly sampled, it is thought that there are pages that need improvement, but I do not think this is a big problem in approval. If there are no language issues with this project, I think there is no problem.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 6월 20일 (화) 오전 6:20, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
No objection from me.
Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:41 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby < jhsoby@gmail.com>:
Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I think this one is ready to move forward. However, we need external validation. Maybe Amir or Tochi have some contacts we could ask?
tor. 22. juni 2023 kl. 08:27 skrev Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com:
When pages are randomly sampled, it is thought that there are pages that need improvement, but I do not think this is a big problem in approval. If there are no language issues with this project, I think there is no problem.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_-5845026178967087125_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 6월 20일 (화) 오전 6:20, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
No objection from me.
Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:41 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby < jhsoby@gmail.com>:
Hi all,
I would like to propose the approval of the Mooré/Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos) [1]. The activity has been stable for several months [2], and the translation of the most important messages is done [3].
We will, however, need verification. I'm sure Sadik can help find someone to verify it.
[1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos [2] https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&... [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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