User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the following comment and suggestion:
The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.
In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.
It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of information.
I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.
Steven
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You requested comments, so here is mine:
I don't know about the technicalities of creating separate namespaces but in principle, that sounds like a good solution to me. I understand that it means any visitor to the Noongar wikipedia will first see Noongar only, and for translations into English, there would be something like a separate tab or so (like the different dialects at als:wp).
If that's the case, i.e. if I've understood correctly, then I'm fine with that solution.
Cheers, Oliver
On 18-May-18 14:52, Steven White wrote:
User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the following comment and suggestion:
The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.
It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of information.
I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.
Steven
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As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of the Incubator, this should probably be fine.
Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English be needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the knowledge is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is different from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a collection of unreliable information. And maybe it will become a POV fork of the English Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I honestly don't know.
If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be the one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com:
User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the following comment and suggestion:
The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.
In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.
It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of information.
I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.
Steven
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Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
As far as I understand, the English namespace of the Noongar wikipedia is not meant to be a duplication of English wikipedia articles but rather *translations* of Noongar articles for those Noongar whose language skills are not good enough to the Noongar straight away. Reading the corresponding en:wp articles will not help them to understand Noongar any better, so that's why they propose an English namespace at the Noongar wikipedia. I hope I got that right because my support of the English namespace at Noongar wikipedia is resting on that understanding.
Oliver
On 23-May-18 21:28, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of the Incubator, this should probably be fine.
Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English be needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the knowledge is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is different from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a collection of unreliable information. And maybe it will become a POV fork of the English Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I honestly don't know.
If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be the one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com mailto:Koala19890@hotmail.com>:
User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the following comment and suggestion: The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects. In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation. It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of information. I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea. Steven Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom>http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient Virus-free. www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
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That's what I understand as well; what I don't completely is why can't these articles simply be on the English Wikipedia. But again, I'm only saying that I'm puzzled, and I'm not blocking this.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-05-24 9:31 GMT+03:00 Oliver Stegen oliver_stegen@sil.org:
As far as I understand, the English namespace of the Noongar wikipedia is not meant to be a duplication of English wikipedia articles but rather *translations* of Noongar articles for those Noongar whose language skills are not good enough to the Noongar straight away. Reading the corresponding en:wp articles will not help them to understand Noongar any better, so that's why they propose an English namespace at the Noongar wikipedia. I hope I got that right because my support of the English namespace at Noongar wikipedia is resting on that understanding.
Oliver
On 23-May-18 21:28, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of the Incubator, this should probably be fine.
Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English be needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the knowledge is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is different from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a collection of unreliable information. And maybe it will become a POV fork of the English Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I honestly don't know.
If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be the one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com:
User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the following comment and suggestion:
The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.
In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.
It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of information.
I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.
Steven
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Well, I don't see that the English Wikipedia community would necessarily agree to be the repository of another language's translation articles which should never be changed to deviate from the original Noongar articles.
--Oliver
On 24-May-18 08:46, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
That's what I understand as well; what I don't completely is why can't these articles simply be on the English Wikipedia. But again, I'm only saying that I'm puzzled, and I'm not blocking this.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-05-24 9:31 GMT+03:00 Oliver Stegen <oliver_stegen@sil.org mailto:oliver_stegen@sil.org>:
As far as I understand, the English namespace of the Noongar wikipedia is not meant to be a duplication of English wikipedia articles but rather *translations* of Noongar articles for those Noongar whose language skills are not good enough to the Noongar straight away. Reading the corresponding en:wp articles will not help them to understand Noongar any better, so that's why they propose an English namespace at the Noongar wikipedia. I hope I got that right because my support of the English namespace at Noongar wikipedia is resting on that understanding. Oliver On 23-May-18 21:28, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of the Incubator, this should probably be fine. Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English be needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the knowledge is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is different from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a collection of unreliable information. And maybe it will become a POV fork of the English Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I honestly don't know. If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be the one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com <mailto:Koala19890@hotmail.com>>: User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the following comment and suggestion: The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects. In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation. It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of information. I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea. Steven Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <#m_-6532847506915473742_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom>_______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom>
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