There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that the proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments by Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion by Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this:
* Reject and close this current proposal. * Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules for nahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it. * When you do this, it would be best if someone had at least a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute. * Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the "major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate. * Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in his contributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop. * See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speaking contributors.
Respectfully, Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlookhttp://aka.ms/weboutlook
Thanks, Steven - I applaud your wrestling with possible next steps and your proposal of a general RfC page on Meta. Alas!, I don't have enough Spanish to represent LangCom there. Maybe Maor Malul? (the only native Spanish speaker among us)
Fwiw, Oliver
On 16-Oct-17 19:43, Steven White wrote:
There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that the proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments by Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion by Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this:
- Reject and close this current proposal.
- Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules for nahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it. o When you do this, it would be best if someone had at least a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute. o Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the "major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate. o Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in his contributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop.
- See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speaking contributors.
Respectfully, Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
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I'm more than happy to do it, but I have experienced Marrovi's behavior in the Spanish Wikipedia, where he has been permanently blocked, and in the Ladino Wikipedia, where he was doing the same thing (and in my opinion, still does) and I do not trust him; I am even thinking it is time for a Global Ban -the value of his contributions are reduced to almost zero with his attitude towards other contributors and making his own rules on every project he has worked on, as you can see on each one of the four wikis he has been permanently banned from.
I'd rather contact WMMX to see how more Nahuatl speakers can be recruited and in the meantime, encourage the current nahwiki community to improve the contents of the project, discussing it on Meta.
Thanks,
M
On 16/10/2017 8:59 p.m., Oliver Stegen wrote:
Thanks, Steven - I applaud your wrestling with possible next steps and your proposal of a general RfC page on Meta. Alas!, I don't have enough Spanish to represent LangCom there. Maybe Maor Malul? (the only native Spanish speaker among us)
Fwiw, Oliver
On 16-Oct-17 19:43, Steven White wrote:
There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that the proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments by Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion by Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this:
- Reject and close this current proposal.
- Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules for nahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it. o When you do this, it would be best if someone had at least a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute. o Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the "major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate. o Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in his contributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop.
- See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speaking contributors.
Respectfully, Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlook http://aka.ms/weboutlook
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If a non-native speaker is screwing up wikipedias, he should not be allowed to continue.
On 17 Oct 2017, at 07:57, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:
I'm more than happy to do it, but I have experienced Marrovi's behavior in the Spanish Wikipedia, where he has been permanently blocked, and in the Ladino Wikipedia, where he was doing the same thing (and in my opinion, still does) and I do not trust him; I am even thinking it is time for a Global Ban -the value of his contributions are reduced to almost zero with his attitude towards other contributors and making his own rules on every project he has worked on, as you can see on each one of the four wikis he has been permanently banned from.
I'd rather contact WMMX to see how more Nahuatl speakers can be recruited and in the meantime, encourage the current nahwiki community to improve the contents of the project, discussing it on Meta.
Thanks, M
On 16/10/2017 8:59 p.m., Oliver Stegen wrote:
Thanks, Steven - I applaud your wrestling with possible next steps and your proposal of a general RfC page on Meta. Alas!, I don't have enough Spanish to represent LangCom there. Maybe Maor Malul? (the only native Spanish speaker among us)
Fwiw, Oliver
On 16-Oct-17 19:43, Steven White wrote:
There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that the proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments by Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion by Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this: • Reject and close this current proposal. • Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules for nahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it. • When you do this, it would be best if someone had at least a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute. • Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the "major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate. • Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in his contributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop. • See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speaking contributors.
Respectfully, Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlook
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Langcom mailing list
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-- "Jülüjain wane mmakat ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain." Maor Malul Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 | www.wikimedia.org.ve Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee Phone: +972-52-4869915 Twitter: @maor_x _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
Hoi, Halleluja !! Thanks, GerardM
On 17 October 2017 at 13:43, Michael Everson everson@evertype.com wrote:
If a non-native speaker is screwing up wikipedias, he should not be allowed to continue.
On 17 Oct 2017, at 07:57, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:
I'm more than happy to do it, but I have experienced Marrovi's behavior
in the Spanish Wikipedia, where he has been permanently blocked, and in the Ladino Wikipedia, where he was doing the same thing (and in my opinion, still does) and I do not trust him; I am even thinking it is time for a Global Ban -the value of his contributions are reduced to almost zero with his attitude towards other contributors and making his own rules on every project he has worked on, as you can see on each one of the four wikis he has been permanently banned from.
I'd rather contact WMMX to see how more Nahuatl speakers can be
recruited and in the meantime, encourage the current nahwiki community to improve the contents of the project, discussing it on Meta.
Thanks, M
On 16/10/2017 8:59 p.m., Oliver Stegen wrote:
Thanks, Steven - I applaud your wrestling with possible next steps and
your proposal of a general RfC page on Meta. Alas!, I don't have enough Spanish to represent LangCom there. Maybe Maor Malul? (the only native Spanish speaker among us)
Fwiw, Oliver
On 16-Oct-17 19:43, Steven White wrote:
There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that the
proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments by
Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion by
Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this:
• Reject and close this current proposal. • Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules fornahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it.
• When you do this, it would be best if someone had atleast a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute.
• Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the"major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate.
• Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in hiscontributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop.
• See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speakingcontributors.
Respectfully, Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlook
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Langcom mailing list
Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
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Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
-- "Jülüjain wane mmakat ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua
junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain."
Maor Malul Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
www.wikimedia.org.ve
Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee Phone: +972-52-4869915 Twitter: @maor_x _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
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Hola,
WRT a global ban, as suggested by Maor X, that was already attempted (not on my PC, cannot link sorry). However it didn't succeed, partly because it may have been poorly argumented and it was started by person who was seen as too involved with him IMHO. On the other hand Marrovi clogged that RfC with crap, and continues to do so on the talk page, which distracted people. I feel a new request could be attempted, as several people already has complained about him.
I also agree with Mr. Everson and Mr. Meijssen, although I'd say that be it native speaker or not, if you are damaging a project, you should not be allowed to continue.
Regards, M.
El El mar, 17 oct 2017 a las 14:02, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> escribió:
Hoi, Halleluja !! Thanks, GerardM
On 17 October 2017 at 13:43, Michael Everson everson@evertype.com wrote:
If a non-native speaker is screwing up wikipedias, he should not be allowed to continue.
On 17 Oct 2017, at 07:57, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:
I'm more than happy to do it, but I have experienced Marrovi's behavior
in the Spanish Wikipedia, where he has been permanently blocked, and in the Ladino Wikipedia, where he was doing the same thing (and in my opinion, still does) and I do not trust him; I am even thinking it is time for a Global Ban -the value of his contributions are reduced to almost zero with his attitude towards other contributors and making his own rules on every project he has worked on, as you can see on each one of the four wikis he has been permanently banned from.
I'd rather contact WMMX to see how more Nahuatl speakers can be
recruited and in the meantime, encourage the current nahwiki community to improve the contents of the project, discussing it on Meta.
Thanks, M
On 16/10/2017 8:59 p.m., Oliver Stegen wrote:
Thanks, Steven - I applaud your wrestling with possible next steps and
your proposal of a general RfC page on Meta. Alas!, I don't have enough Spanish to represent LangCom there. Maybe Maor Malul? (the only native Spanish speaker among us)
Fwiw, Oliver
On 16-Oct-17 19:43, Steven White wrote:
There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that
the proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments
by Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion
by Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this:
• Reject and close this current proposal. • Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules fornahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it.
• When you do this, it would be best if someone had atleast a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute.
• Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the"major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate.
• Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in hiscontributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop.
• See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speakingcontributors.
Respectfully, Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlook
Virus-free. www.avg.com
Langcom mailing list
Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
Langcom mailing list
Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
-- "Jülüjain wane mmakat ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua
junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain."
Maor Malul Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
www.wikimedia.org.ve
Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee Phone: +972-52-4869915 Twitter: @maor_x _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
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