Wikipedia-l August 2004

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

96 participants
125 discussions

Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: FW: Wikipedia for Old English
by Adam Bishop 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

I think an Old English Wikipedia sounds interesting (although I don't know very much OE myself), and now that you are also discussing Latin, I wanted to point out a few problems you might encounter (I am an admin on the Latin Wikipedia): Most importantly, you should start off by making some guidelines about what should and should not be included. The Latin wikipedia is pretty old and only recently has there been a concerted effort to give it some direction - I think any new wikipedia in a dead language would benefit from having the rules first. For example, you would (I assume) want to have articles about Anglo-Saxon related topics, but will people also want to write about unrelated subjects? Will the stereotypical Pokemon article be allowed? What form of the language will you use? For Latin, I think we try to be as classical as possible, although there is some medieval and neo-Latin there too. As far as I understand, the 9th century Wessex dialect is the most attested form of Anglo-Saxon, right? Would you accept alternate spelling/grammar found in other dialects (Northumbrian, perhaps)? (As a side note, you would probably also want to specifically state that Old English is not the same as "ye olde English", nor is it Chaucerian or Shakespearian English, as has been mentioned already.) Are there groups who still use Old English, from whom you can draw either contributors or information on where to begin? Is there any information on how to use OE words for modern concepts? For Latin it is fairly easy to find Neo-Latin terms, but what if you want to write about Japan, for example, in OE? I guess my point is, can OE still be used in a meaningful way, or will you be limited by existing vocabulary? I hope these questions/suggestions help, and I hope I can contribute when it is created! Adam Bishop >From: Pierre Abbat <phma(a)phma.hn.org> >Reply-To: wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org >To: wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org >Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: FW: Wikipedia for Old English >Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:40:55 -0400 > >On Thursday 05 August 2004 10:48, Karl Eichwalder wrote: > > "James R. Johnson" <modean52(a)comcast.net> writes: > > > I guess it's like Latin in being a dead language, but just as > > > deserving of a Wiki. > > > > Encyclopedia writer should try to get the facts right before posting. > > Latin is still in use (and it was never dead). And, more important, > > Latin something like a sleeping lingua franca. > >"Dead" referring to a language means "having no native speakers". Unlike Manx, >which died with its last native speaker (but is still in use), Latin died >(but remained in use) when its descendants differentiated sufficiently that >none of them was Latin, which can't be pinpointed as precisely. > >phma >-- >li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa >_______________________________________________ >Wikipedia-l mailing list >Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=ht… Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.

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Small fund-rising improvements.
by Krzysztof Kowalczyk 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

I was just looking on Foundation's fund-rising page and have two comments. 1. I think that "Merchandise" and "Donations" should be separated, similar to what http://www.mozilla.org/ does. I believe more people would visit "Merchandise" or "WikiPedia merchandise" resulting in more sales => more funding. I believe that because in people's minds "donating" and "buying cool stuff" (even if it ultimately leads to funding a good cause) is strongly separated. In more specific terms, things that could be done: * a link to "Merchandise" on main wikipedia.org page, in the nav section, next to "Donations" link * this link goes to a separate page on foundation's website which only deals with merchandise (and not all donations options) In general I think that foundation should study what Mozilla project does for fundraising as they are not larger/more visible project but according to http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=110721 they do much better at getting funding via. t-shirt sales ($15,000.00 for mozilla vs. $460.90 for wikipedia). Things that I think mozilla.org does better: * much nicer web design. No offense, but http://wikimediafoundation.org/fundraising is bad, both functionally (it's hard to read, the copy isn't that great) and visually (compare to http://www.mozillastore.com/products/clothing) * selling t-shirts on open-source conventions (linuxcon/oscon/devday) which is what http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=110721 implies that mozilla foundation is doing (I don't really know, I haven't been there) 2. More t-shirt designs. I think that a design that gives emphasis on personal involvement in the project would be more attractive to people than a generic design with a logo. E.g. designs with teksts such as "I contribute to WikiPedia.org" or "I wrote for Encyclopedia \n wikipedia.org", "I write Encyclopedia articles \n wikipedia.org". I'm not claiming that exactly this wording should be used - I just want to give an example of what I mean (emphasis on contributing/writing for WikiPedia/Encyclopedia). Also, I think that Mozilla's "$50 donation t-shirt" (http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations/50shirt) is a good idea. It could even had a text that says that e.g. "I donated to WikiPedia", "I make Free Encyclopedia possible", "I fund Free Encyclopedia" - something along those lines. Krzysztof Kowalczyk | http://blog.kowalczyk.info

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Nauruan and this ugly message under each en:article
by Gerard.Meijssen 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

On the Nauruan wikipedia, they call their language Nauruose. On the interlinks it is called Nauruan. (http://na.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauruose) As languages are indicated in the way it is written in that language, I think this should be amended. On en: there is this _ugly_ message like "Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauri_language"" If this must be on each page, have it under the category with at least a blank line above it. The onus of referring to wikipedia is on the site that has copied wikipedia not for us to have this on our pages as well. Thanks, GerardM

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How about distributing fonts ??
by Gerard.Meijssen 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

In some recent messages, it was suggested to distribute OGG code. An equal deserving cause are fonts to obscure (to me) fonts. I have been working on wiktionary and in the process I have had to find fonts for Khmer, Georgian, Cherokee and a few others. I have no clue if I have the best fonts in the ones that I picked/found. By adopting fonts and promoting them, we stimulate the development of fonts, some cannot be had for free afaik like Etruscan. The aim of Wikipedia is to share all the knowledge, this means that the knowledge must be visible. Promoting good free fonts and making them easily available is one way. Thanks, GerardM

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Code 2000
by Peter Jacobi 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Whereas Code 2000 may be a good start to support a lot of scripts, you shouldn't repeat the claim of it being "free". It's shareware. <cite> If you like it and use it after a reasonable evaluation period, you are obliged to register the font by sending me $5 (Five U.S. Dollars, or equivalent in any currency.) Registration Fee Schedule: US$ 5.00 - Single user registration fee US$ 50.00 - Single site registration fee US$100.00 - Server/Web site (embedding) registration fee </cite> In fact it is speculated that James Kass would be able to live a leisurely life if every user would actually pay him. A very complete directory of available fonts is at: http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fonts.html Regards, Peter Jacobi -- NEU: WLAN-Router f�r 0,- EUR* - auch f�r DSL-Wechsler! GMX DSL = superg�nstig & kabellos http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: How about distributing fonts ??
by Gerard.Meijssen 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Timwi wrote: > Roman Maurer wrote: > >> Gerard.Meijssen pravi: >> >>> The aim of Wikipedia is to share all the knowledge, this means >>> that the knowledge must be visible. Promoting good free fonts >>> and making them easily available is one way. >> >> >> As it turn out there are problems with finding good *and* free fonts. > > > There is a good and free font, and I already mentioned how to find it. Google for "Code2000". http://home.att.net/~jameskass/ > > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l > > The Code2000 code is shareware. So it is expected that you pay for the privilige. Wikimedia is free and OGG is free, there are free fonts. There are fonts that for dead languages that are missing from Code2000 like Etruscan. My point was that by hosting the distribution of free fonts, promoting the development of free fonts we would enhance the wikimedia experience exactly like we would do with distributing OGG. Thanks, GerardM ng them easily available is one way. >> >> >> As it turn out there are problems with finding good *and* free fonts. > > > There is a good and free font, and I already mentioned how to find it. Google for "Code2000". http://home.att.net/~jameskass/ > > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l > > The Code2000 code is shareware. So it is expected that you pay for the privilige. Wikimedia is free and OGG is free, there are free fonts. There are fonts that for dead langua

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Lb: Language Questions
by Ewen Caroline 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

Hi, I have a question: How do you get the whole Wiki interface in your language (so that it doesn't say "Main Page" but "Haaptsäit" for ex. in the menus) ? I translated the language.php from the french version because I thought this was it but apparently not. Can anyone help ? :) Oh and we still need a Logo. It has been requested for quite some time now but no one seems to be working on it so far. How long does that usually take ? Thanks a lot :-) Caroline aka Briséis, http://lb.wikipedia.org

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Obnoxious art galleries...
by Robert Graham Merkel 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 04:41:09AM +0000, wikipedia-l-request(a)Wikimedia.org wrote: > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:38:28 -0700 > From: "Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales" <jwales(a)wikia.com> > Subject: [Wikipedia-l] [bhorrocks(a)npg.org.uk: National Portrait > Gallery images on Wikipedia website] > To: wikipedia-l(a)wikimedia.org, wikien-l(a)wikimedia.org > Message-ID: <20040804043828.GM23467(a)wikia.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > It would please me greatly to be able to respond that their claims are > preposterous. Shall we research this carefully? > I don't know about UK law, but the National Gallery of Victoria in Australia (with the shared legal tradition I believe the copyright laws are similar) seems to believe that they own the rights to any photographs of the artworks they own, even if the artworks themselves are in the public domain. You will note the copyright notice on this Australian website: http://www.artistsfootsteps.com/html/Artists_mccubbin.htm This is despite the fact that McCubbin died in 1917. I have been meaning to get around to making further enquiries into this in the Australian context, but haven't got around to it. Given this enquiry, it just got moved up my priority list. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Merkel robert.merkel(a)benambra.org http://benambra.org This is a non-story. Pakistan is our ally in the war against terrorism. They're the good guys. Nuclear weapons in the hands of the good guys are NOT WMD's. Now if it were learned that Saddam had access to designs for constructing paper airplanes, THAT would be front page news. --Beth, poster at http://atrios.blogspot.com, 31/1/2003, in response to low-prominence media reports of an Israeli national arrested for selling US nuclear technology to Pakistan. --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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(unicode) templates in chess table
by Roman Maurer 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

Hello! I have a problem encoding the chess table in Slovene Wikipedia: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uporabnik:Romanm/%C5%A0ahovska_deska The upper-right version is twice-templated and subject to my question since it is not working, the lower version does not use main template and is there only for comparision. The idea is to have [[Template:Chess_Position]] and use it like follows: {{Chess_Position|white=white |black=lightgray |a1= ... other initialisations |h8= |h8=template for black knight |g7=template for black king |f7=template for white pawn |e5=template for white king |h4=template for white queen}} I was using direct unicode characters instead of chess-piece templates, but Internet Explorer users complained that they cannot see the characters and they appeared in background color in Mozilla (*), so I switched to templates that should display picture on the background. But this does not work! Any hints where did I go wrong? * Version with Unicode characters: http://sl.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Uporabnik:Romanm/%C5%A0ahovska_d… -- Pozdrav, Roman

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Approaching galleries (was: Obnoxious art galleries...)
by Robert Graham Merkel 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 10:28:28AM +0000, Andre Engels wrote: > > I agree. It would also be good to have a discussion going with a gallery > like this - what about offering them a link for each work of 'theirs' that's > on our site. Problem is of course the GNU/FDL - as we do not believe them to > be copyright holders, we cannot require of downstream users to keep that > kind of thing. > I've tried this with a major Australian art gallery. Their multimedia guy was very excited about the possibility of releasing "web-sized" images of PD works and seeing them used in the web's best encyclopedia. I got the distinct impression that the higher-ups weren't, and are still pretty clueless about this sort of thing. Still, just because *one* gallery didn't go for it, doesn't mean every gallery will knock us back. I'm considering contacting one of the *other* major galleries and pointing out to them the benefits of having the works *they* have of famous Australian artists in the Wikipedia, rather than the gallery that knocked us back :) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Merkel robert.merkel(a)benambra.org http://benambra.org The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair. --Douglas Adams, "Mostly Harmless" --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Wikipedia-l August 2004