Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
* What is a concept? A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Hi all,
I’m on the other side of things - I think it would be good to simplify our branding, and ‘Wikipedia’ is the obvious brand to go with. I’d love to see us talking about ‘Wikipedia Data’, and ‘Wikipedia Media, etc. (maybe with obvious cross-wiki tabs at the top of the projects!), without the confusion of ‘Wikileaks’, ‘Wikia’, etc. I don’t think that a yes/no Meta RfC on this project right now would help, as there would be an obvious knee-jerk reaction.
I also don’t think that the ‘brandingwikipedia’ website helps, though. If you want to ask the general public about Wikipedia branding, it makes sense - you can just click ‘like’ to the suggested tags and maybe leave a comment, and that’s it. However, that’s not how the Wikimedia community works, and that’s the population that you need to convince.
If you want this to work, then I think there’s two ways to go: start discussions on-wiki about the pros and cons, provide data in response to questions and emotional responses, and help the community reach a consensus with you about the way forward; or just go ahead and make the change, weather the reactions, and see what happens. I suspect only one of those approaches would work in the long-run, but either would be better than having off-wiki processes and then claiming that they have consensus. Of course, you can try an approach with one Wikimedia project at a time, and see how it goes.
Thanks, Mike
On 13 Mar 2020, at 18:12, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Although Mike and I have differences of opinion about centralizing on the "Wikipedia" brand, one way in which I agree with Mike is that there are ways to have branding discussions that are not themselves controversial. Even if consensus was not reached, I for one would be more accepting of the process.
Some departments in WMF seem to be more on board with regards to process than others. In particular, I think that Audiences these days generally does a good job, and also I like Tech News.
Outside of WMF, the Wikidata team at WMDE produces very informative newsletters each week. They seem to do good work without spending money on outside consultants.
So, why all of these issues in WMF Communications? I don't get it.
We just had an RfC on Meta which gave 90% opposes. I do not see how any serious rebranding discussions could still be happening after this result has become apparent. For me personally, the question is closed at least for several years.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 8:48 PM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Although Mike and I have differences of opinion about centralizing on the "Wikipedia" brand, one way in which I agree with Mike is that there are ways to have branding discussions that are not themselves controversial. Even if consensus was not reached, I for one would be more accepting of the process.
Some departments in WMF seem to be more on board with regards to process than others. In particular, I think that Audiences these days generally does a good job, and also I like Tech News.
Outside of WMF, the Wikidata team at WMDE produces very informative newsletters each week. They seem to do good work without spending money on outside consultants.
So, why all of these issues in WMF Communications? I don't get it.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I, for one, welcome Wikipedia Dictionary, Wikipedia Source, Wikipedia Species, Wikipedia Commons.
Why is it, though, that others go the other way? like American Airlines subordinating to AMR, Google to Alphabet. Citibank went in a direction the opposite of the way that WMF is going, with Citi becoming a prefix with multiple uses.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:48 PM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Although Mike and I have differences of opinion about centralizing on the "Wikipedia" brand, one way in which I agree with Mike is that there are ways to have branding discussions that are not themselves controversial. Even if consensus was not reached, I for one would be more accepting of the process.
Some departments in WMF seem to be more on board with regards to process than others. In particular, I think that Audiences these days generally does a good job, and also I like Tech News.
Outside of WMF, the Wikidata team at WMDE produces very informative newsletters each week. They seem to do good work without spending money on outside consultants.
So, why all of these issues in WMF Communications? I don't get it.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Perhaps you do, but do the volunteer communities of the projects you would like to rename share this enthusiasm? Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dennis During Sent: 14 March 2020 00:20 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
I, for one, welcome Wikipedia Dictionary, Wikipedia Source, Wikipedia Species, Wikipedia Commons.
Why is it, though, that others go the other way? like American Airlines subordinating to AMR, Google to Alphabet. Citibank went in a direction the opposite of the way that WMF is going, with Citi becoming a prefix with multiple uses.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:48 PM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Although Mike and I have differences of opinion about centralizing on the "Wikipedia" brand, one way in which I agree with Mike is that there are ways to have branding discussions that are not themselves controversial. Even if consensus was not reached, I for one would be more accepting of the process.
Some departments in WMF seem to be more on board with regards to process than others. In particular, I think that Audiences these days generally does a good job, and also I like Tech News.
Outside of WMF, the Wikidata team at WMDE produces very informative newsletters each week. They seem to do good work without spending money on outside consultants.
So, why all of these issues in WMF Communications? I don't get it.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we operate, or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz, little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong, and they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pine W Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we operate, or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz, little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong, and they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pine W Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship with the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they start making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community first untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the 2030 strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible not to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we operate, or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz, little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong, and they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship with the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they start making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community first untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the 2030 strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible not to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz, little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, The fact that it is considered major enough to address how Snøhetta became blocked on English Wikipedia is ok. What is also does is confirm the bias towards English Wikipedia. I am pretty sure that in the briefing of Snøhetta personnel it was NOT mentioned that other projects may have different policies, they substantially differ.
For me this whole process seems like a traintrack leading to a train wreck. Wikipedia is not what *we *do, it is the brand Wikimedia is best known for. Remember bias is not experienced and appreciated by the people who are associated with what is dominant. I stated before how Wikipedia bias has prevented us to move forward with our other "brands" and projects. I would like some response on that. Thanks, GeradM
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 00:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community first untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far,
it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
buzz,
little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
(all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself
as
the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
that
the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Samir,
I don't think the "FAQ" gets the point. The "AQ" was if the "rebranding" was acceptable. The answer was a resounding "no".
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:16 PM Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community first untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far,
it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
buzz,
little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
(all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself
as
the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
that
the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship with the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they start making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community first untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the 2030 strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible not to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz, little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions planned for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred to in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept. This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system. The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after. You can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added
an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating
the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community
first
untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the
hen
house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will
be
doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
unwillingness
to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to
spin
their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
buzz,
little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
Block
evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally
at
you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
(all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project
is a
good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
itself as
the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems,
and
occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
that
the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
been
unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
program
in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
associated
with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
whether
this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions planned for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred to in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept. This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system. The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after. You can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
and
questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added
an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
block
and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating
the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
to
your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
been
reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
been
blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be something done to get them back to good standing with the community
first
untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the
hen
house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
have
been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
will
be
doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
unwillingness
to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to
spin
their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
buzz,
little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
Block
evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Pine W
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
Hello,
First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at
you, Essie.
Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
(all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project
is a
good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
itself as
the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
and
affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems,
and
occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
that
the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
Snøhetta
given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
been
unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
few
months.
I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
program
in its current form.
Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
associated
with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
whether
this project should continue. If the community wants a branding project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
involved.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept. This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system. The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
and
questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
added
an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
block
and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
to
your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
been
reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
been
blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to
be
something done to get them back to good standing with the community
first
untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild
the
hen
house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into
the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
have
been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
will
be
doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
unwillingness
to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan
to
spin
their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots
of
buzz,
little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
Block
evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Pine W > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > Hello, > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at
> you, Essie. > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved
the
> community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
> (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a
> good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of
the
> Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
itself as
> the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
and
> affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and
> occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
think
that
> the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
Snøhetta
> given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
been
> unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
few
> months. > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
program
> in its current form. > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
associated
> with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
whether
> this project should continue. If the community wants a branding > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
> parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
involved.
> > Pine > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept. This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system. The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
and
questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
added
an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
block
and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
to
your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
been
reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
been
blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to
be
something done to get them back to good standing with the community
first
untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild
the
hen
house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into
the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
have
been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
will
be
doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
unwillingness
to work with Wikipedia properly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
- d.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
far, it
looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
operate,
or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan
to
spin
their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots
of
buzz,
little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
wrong,
and
they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
Block
evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Pine W > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > Hello, > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at
> you, Essie. > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved
the
> community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
> (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a
> good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of
the
> Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
itself as
> the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
and
> affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and
> occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
think
that
> the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
Snøhetta
> given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
been
> unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
few
> months. > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
program
> in its current form. > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
associated
> with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
whether
> this project should continue. If the community wants a branding > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
> parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
involved.
> > Pine > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept. This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system. The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
and
questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
added
an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
block
and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
to
your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with
the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
been
reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
been
blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
they
start
making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to
be
something done to get them back to good standing with the community
first
untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild
the
hen
house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into
the
2030
strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
have
been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not
to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
will
be
doing anything for the next 10 years.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
> Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
unwillingness
> to work with Wikipedia properly: > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > - d. > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
far, it
> looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we operate, > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan
to
spin
> their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots
of
buzz,
> little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
wrong,
and > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
Block
> evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
> Behalf Of Pine W > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > > > Hello, > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at
> > you, Essie. > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved
the
> > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
resources
> > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a
> > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of
the
> > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
itself as
> > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
and
> > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and
> > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
think
that
> > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
Snøhetta
> > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
been
> > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
few
> > months. > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
program
> > in its current form. > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
associated
> > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
whether
> > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
project's
> > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
involved.
> > > > Pine > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
-- GN.
*Power of Diverse Collaboration* *Sharing knowledge brings people together* Wikimania Bangkok 2021 August hosted by ESEAP
Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
and
share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models
from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
even
after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
and
questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
added
an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
the
block
and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
pages
to
your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
Best,
Samir
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with
> the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
been
> reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users
who
been
> blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
they
start
> making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be
> something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
first
> untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the
hen
> house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
> > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
into
the
2030
> strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
have
> been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not
> to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why
we
will
be
> doing anything for the next 10 years. > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
unwillingness
> > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > - d. > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
far, it
> > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
how we
> operate, > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
plan
to
spin
> > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
lots
of
buzz,
> > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
I am
wrong,
> and > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
Block
> > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Pine W > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at
> > > you, Essie. > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the
> > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
of
resources
> > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a
> > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component
of
the
> > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
itself as
> > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
and
> > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and
> > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
think
that
> > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
Snøhetta
> > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and
I've
been
> > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the
past
few
> > > months. > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
this
program
> > > in its current form. > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
associated
> > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
on
whether
> > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
the
project's
> > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
involved.
> > > > > > Pine > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > -- > GN. > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > August > hosted by ESEAP > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra > Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Sorry dropped footnote #[6] while sending: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
and
share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
even
after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
and
> questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
added
an > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
the
block
> and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
pages
to
> your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > Best, > > Samir > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
been
> > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users who
been
> > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
they
start > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be
> > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
first > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the
hen > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
> > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
into
the
2030 > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
have
> > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why we
will
be > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
far, it > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
how we
> > operate, > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
plan
to
spin > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
lots
of
buzz, > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
I am
wrong, > > and > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
Block > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> > > > Cheers, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the
> > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
of
resources > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component of
the
> > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
itself as > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
and
> > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
think
that > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
Snøhetta
> > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
and I've
been > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
the past
few
> > > > months. > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
this
program > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
on
whether > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
the
project's > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should
be
involved. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > -- > > GN. > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > August > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 09:49, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
While having Wikipedia as a central concept is a project requirement,
... and here we have the source of all the problems here: the answer has been predetermined.
- d.
This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia Foundation.
Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says “no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an earthquake.
I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen. Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.
As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
John Erling Blad /jeblad
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
and
share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
even
after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
and
> questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
added
an > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
the
block
> and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
pages
to
> your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > Best, > > Samir > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
been
> > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
been
> > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
they
start > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be
> > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
first > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the
hen > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
> > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
into
the
2030 > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
have
> > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why
we
will
be > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
far, it > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
how we
> > operate, > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
plan
to
spin > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
lots
of
buzz, > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
I am
wrong, > > and > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
Block > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> > > > Cheers, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the
> > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
of
resources > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
the
> > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
itself as > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
and
> > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
think
that > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
Snøhetta
> > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
and
I've
been > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
the
past
few
> > > > months. > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
this
program > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
associated > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
on
whether > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
the
project's > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should
be
involved. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > -- > > GN. > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > August > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Since the process has decided its not hearing that the community doesnt want the change why continue to pretend the communities input or interest in the project is even wanted.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:25, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia Foundation.
Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says “no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an earthquake.
I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen. Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.
As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
John Erling Blad /jeblad
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty < selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk
page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
and
share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world,
so
we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time
and
priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on
a
more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
> The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this
is
even
> after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
> > > - d. > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
and > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
added
> an > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
about
the
block > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
> the > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
those
pages
to > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > > > > Best, > > > > Samir > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
> with > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
been > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
been > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
they
> start > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be
> > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
> first > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the
> hen > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
> > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into
the
> 2030 > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
have > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible > not > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why
we
will > be > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote: > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an > unwillingness > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
> far, it > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework
on
how we
> > > operate, > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care,
and
plan
to
> spin > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages
with
lots
of
> buzz, > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
Maybe
I am
> wrong, > > > and > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
> Block > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community. > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > On > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we
as a
movement? > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally > at > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the
> > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of
> resources > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that
this
project
> is a > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
the
> > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> itself as > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
and > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
> and > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
think
> that > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
Snøhetta > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
and
I've
> been > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
the
past
few > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
this
> program > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> associated > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's
view
on
> whether > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide
on
the
> project's > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> involved. > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GN. > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > August > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
More complicated.
The process has been managed as a "pure" marketing and communication process while it concerns more community management.
I don't see here (honestly) any community management.
Knd regards
On 11/04/2020 12:27, Gnangarra wrote:
Since the process has decided its not hearing that the community doesnt want the change why continue to pretend the communities input or interest in the project is even wanted.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:25, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia Foundation.
Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says “no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an earthquake.
I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen. Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.
As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
John Erling Blad /jeblad
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty < selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now, there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion with due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen... ?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC feedback integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
and
share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
even
after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
- d.
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
and
> questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
added
an > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
the
block
> and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
the > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
pages
to
> your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > Best, > > Samir > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
with > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
been
> > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
been
> > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
they
start > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be
> > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
first > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the
hen > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
> > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
into
the
2030 > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
have
> > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
comprehensible
not > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why
we
will
be > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
far, it > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
how we
> > operate, > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
plan
to
spin > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
lots
of
buzz, > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
I am
wrong, > > and > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
Block > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
community.
> > > > Cheers, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
personally
at > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the
> > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
of
resources > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
is a > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
the
> > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
itself as > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
and
> > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
and > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
think
that > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
Snøhetta
> > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
and
I've
been > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
the
past
few
> > > > months. > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
this
program > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
associated > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
on
whether > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
the
project's > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should
be
involved. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > -- > > GN. > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > August > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who has predetermined this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now, there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion with due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen... ?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC feedback integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi All,
We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
and
share an invitation to join an event this month.
We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.
But we do have things to share:
*This month: live brand concept presentation!*
To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
after.
You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.
Thank you!
Samir and the brand project team
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
[4] Join via Zoom:
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
Steam via Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
> The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
even
> after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29
> > > - d. > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
and > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
added
> an > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
the
block > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
updating
> the > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
pages
to > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > > > > Best, > > > > Samir > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
relationship
> with > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
been > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
been > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
they
> start > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be
> > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
> first > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the
> hen > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
recommend.
> > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
into
the
> 2030 > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
have > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible > not > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why
we
will > be > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote: > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an > unwillingness > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
seen so
> far, it > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
how we
> > > operate, > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
plan
to
> spin > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
lots
of
> buzz, > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
I am
> wrong, > > > and > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
outside?
> Block > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community. > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > On > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally > at > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the
> > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
of
> resources > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
project
> is a > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
the
> > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> itself as > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
and > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
problems,
> and > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
think
> that > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
Snøhetta > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
and
I've
> been > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
the
past
few > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
this
> program > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> associated > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
on
> whether > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
branding
> > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
the
> project's > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should
be
> involved. > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GN. > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > August > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
It would be good to reflect the new changes/progress in the FAQ. 1.1–1.6, maybe revisited perhaps.
An email above notifies about "slowing down the process", the /Timeline page also mentions a possible delay because of the crisis. FAQ 1.5 timeline has not been edited or contains such details (a link to the main timeline page might be a good idea).
"Exploring new options" seem to be an important point in the last update. In the FAQ it is mentioned once at FAQ 2.4 while answering "Why is this project moving forward after the RfC?" However, this might be a separate FAQ point.
FAQ 2.6: "... findings of the 2030 research and planning community review [link to email],...." -- Perhaps a "link to email" is missing? If it so, it's a minor thing of course and can be fixed.
Regards, in a personal capacity
Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 23:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who has predetermined this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about
it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now, there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion
with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC
feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page
[3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk
page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever
they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming
convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal,
just
part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do
not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC)
speak, I
just
didn't hear that. Kind regards, (Comment in personal capacity)
Thanks
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> Hi All, > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
and
> share an invitation to join an event this month. > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the
world, so
we are
> slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
to all
> of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the
time and
> priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating
the
project
> timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
> time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
and
> keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed
on a
more
> regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
planned > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are
> likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > But we do have things to share: > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
to > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
> present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00
GMT.
Snøhetta
> will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
> the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final,
unified
concept.
> This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
around
> the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall
design
system.
> The session will also be recorded and made available for
viewing
after.
You > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a
> proposal for a naming convention or design. > > Thank you! > > Samir and the brand project team > > [1] > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > Steam via Youtube Live: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and
this is
even
> > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29 > > > > > > - d. > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
> and > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and
have
now
added > > an > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
about
the
> block > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process
of
updating > > the > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
those
pages
> to > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote: > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship > > with > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community
ban
thats
> been > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
> been > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
they > > start > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
be > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
> > first > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
the > > hen > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend. > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into
the > > 2030 > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is
that
should
> have > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > comprehensible > > not > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where,
how,
why
we
> will > > be > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions
an
> > unwillingness > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I
have
seen so
> > far, it > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their
homework on
how we
> > > > operate, > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care,
and
plan
to > > spin > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages
with
lots
of > > buzz, > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
Maybe
I am
> > wrong, > > > > and > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from
the
outside?
> > Block > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of
the
> community. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we
as a
> movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't
directed
> personally > > at > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
the > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of
> > resources > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that
this
project > > is a > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
the > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> > itself as > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
> and > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
problems, > > and > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
think > > that > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
> Snøhetta > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've
> > been > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process
during
the
past
> few > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this
> > program > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> > associated > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's
view
on
> > whether > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants
a
branding
> > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community
decide on
the
> > project's > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > > August > > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding
So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is window dressing for a decision that's long been made.
Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling the numbers, employing literal wiki spammers to do the consulting, etc.
Samir's posts here are an attempt at managing messaging. Nothing a community member does to "engage" with this process will change the path that's been set.
Image Filter 2.0 anyone?
- d.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 21:38, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
It would be good to reflect the new changes/progress in the FAQ. 1.1–1.6, maybe revisited perhaps.
An email above notifies about "slowing down the process", the /Timeline page also mentions a possible delay because of the crisis. FAQ 1.5 timeline has not been edited or contains such details (a link to the main timeline page might be a good idea).
"Exploring new options" seem to be an important point in the last update. In the FAQ it is mentioned once at FAQ 2.4 while answering "Why is this project moving forward after the RfC?" However, this might be a separate FAQ point.
FAQ 2.6: "... findings of the 2030 research and planning community review [link to email],...." -- Perhaps a "link to email" is missing? If it so, it's a minor thing of course and can be fixed.
Regards, in a personal capacity
Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 23:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who has predetermined this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about
it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now, there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion
with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC
feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page
[3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk
page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever
they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming
convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal,
just
part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do
not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
> There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC)
speak, I
just
> didn't hear that. > Kind regards, > (Comment in personal capacity) > > Thanks > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
and
> > share an invitation to join an event this month. > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the
world, so
we are
> > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
to all
> > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the
time and
> > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating
the
project
> > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
> > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
and
> > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed
on a
more
> > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
> planned > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > > > But we do have things to share: > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
> to > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
> > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00
GMT.
Snøhetta
> > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
> > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final,
unified
concept.
> > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
around
> > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall
design
system.
> > The session will also be recorded and made available for
viewing
after.
> You > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a
> > proposal for a naming convention or design. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Samir and the brand project team > > > > [1] > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
> > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > > > Steam via Youtube Live: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and
this is
even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29 > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
> > and > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and
have
now
> added > > > an > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
about
the
> > block > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process
of
> updating > > > the > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
those
pages
> > to > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial > relationship > > > with > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community
ban
thats
> > been > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
> > been > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
> they > > > start > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
> be > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
> > > first > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
> the > > > hen > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they > recommend. > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into
> the > > > 2030 > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is
that
should
> > have > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > > comprehensible > > > not > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where,
how,
why
we
> > will > > > be > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions
an
> > > unwillingness > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I
have
seen so
> > > far, it > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their
homework on
how we
> > > > > operate, > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care,
and
plan
> to > > > spin > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages
with
lots
> of > > > buzz, > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
Maybe
I am
> > > wrong, > > > > > and > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from
the
outside?
> > > Block > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of
the
> > community. > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we
as a
> > movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't
directed
> > personally > > > at > > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
> the > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of
> > > resources > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that
this
> project > > > is a > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
> the > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> > > itself as > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
> > and > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
> problems, > > > and > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
> think > > > that > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
> > Snøhetta > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've
> > > been > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process
during
the
past
> > few > > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this
> > > program > > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> > > associated > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's
view
on
> > > whether > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants
a
branding
> > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community
decide on
the
> > > project's > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > > > August > > > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > Noongarpedia: > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
David Gerard wrote:
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding
So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is window dressing for a decision that's long been made.
Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling the numbers, employing literal wiki spammers to do the consulting, etc.
Wikimedia Foundation Inc. is bad. There are dozens of examples illustrating why this is true, but this forcible rebranding is a particularly good demonstration of the rot.
The people most directly responsible here are Katherine Maher and Heather Walls. They're both subscribed to this mailing list, they both understand that this decision would upset long-time contributors, and they both simply decided to ignore any complaints in favor of attempting to siphon more money from donors and force their "vision" on the broader movement. You don't see either of them defending themselves or their actions here for a reason. They didn't both forget how e-mail works or how the wikis work, they've intentionally chosen to plug their ears and march forward.
What's more offensive, in my opinion, than this forcible rebranding effort is that they've spent and will continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. It would be bad enough to make this unilateral decision and implement it with the existing bloated staff, but instead they've hired agencies and consultants and wasted additional hundreds of thousands of dollars in donor money on this sham exercise.
But don't worry, highly deceptive advertising is back on the projects, in mid-April, to ensure continued funding of this and other charades.
MZMcBride
Hmm. As Deskana has pointed out in the past, painting everyone at WMF with the same brush is problematic. It can demoralize people who do good work.
At the same time, it's difficult to escape the conclusion that the same problems occur at WMF year after year. As the saying goes, "The more things change, the more they stay the same." I think that the WMF Board is a part of the problem. In the meantime, the best that the rest of us can do is to continue to make our opinions known and try to be productive.
I'm reluctant to call for changes of individually identifiable staff without knowing more about the facts of this situation. I simply don't have enough information.
I'm not aware of any large organization which doesn't have recurring problems. WMF is not unique in this regard. That's not an excuse, but I think that it's also important to be realistic.
I think it’s important to realise that there *is* a big issue here. How we want to be perceived and how we are actually perceived are *not* the same.
We can argue about WMF vs. community as much as we want, but that won’t change reality.
Please can we focus on how we solve the problem instead of internal bickering? (This applies equally to the community and the brand project.)
Thanks, Mike
On 15 Apr 2020, at 20:05, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hmm. As Deskana has pointed out in the past, painting everyone at WMF with the same brush is problematic. It can demoralize people who do good work.
At the same time, it's difficult to escape the conclusion that the same problems occur at WMF year after year. As the saying goes, "The more things change, the more they stay the same." I think that the WMF Board is a part of the problem. In the meantime, the best that the rest of us can do is to continue to make our opinions known and try to be productive.
I'm reluctant to call for changes of individually identifiable staff without knowing more about the facts of this situation. I simply don't have enough information.
I'm not aware of any large organization which doesn't have recurring problems. WMF is not unique in this regard. That's not an excuse, but I think that it's also important to be realistic.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, When I read something like this, it takes me aback. Yes, people may have an opinion, they may even express it and they even may be wrong. Who cares really. There is enough to dislike in branding, we are not cattle. From a marketing perspective there may be a point. The point would be to bring all that we do together, bring it together so that what it is we are and what is we do better understood by an audience, an audience that we want to entice to like us enough to become part of our Wikimedia movement.
The problem is that the "long time contributors" don't like change. They have invested so much in whatever it is they think makes our projects work that they do not see the forest from the trees. They forget what our primary aim, is and fail to appreciate that all conventions are there to support the aim of sharing in the sum of all knowledge. This week Wikipedia administrators killed off the ListeriaBot because it defied a convention. A convention that they could not explain to me does harm to our public. A convention that exists because it was conceded to English Wikipedia that they could have non free images exclusive to its project. When challenged that they do not care about Wikipedia's quality, that manually maintained lists average out to be not as well maintained as Listeria list there was silence. They did not care because it did not address their need that their convention had to prevail.
"Long time contributors", administrators are the ones expecting others to share their sentiment about everything what is bad. I don't. Katherine Maher brought an end to a period of stagnation. My impression is that at the Wikimedia Foundation things look up. I love it that the WMF wants to expand and I totally agree that English Wikipedia, its best known product, the brand that is known by many is exactly what is not bringing us together.
I prefer people like Mackenzie Lemieux or Jess Wade any time over the "long time contributors".. PS with a blog going back 15 years, with 2,606,298 edits I qualify as a long time contributor..
So if your opinions are as good as the reflections you have on the quality of Wikipedia, I do not care about your opinions. By my calculations there is on average error rate of 4% in lists because of false friends. Magnus blogged how manually maintained list are anything but well maintained lists. The key point of branding in the marketing sense is that it is to bring out the best of what is on offer.
The basis of what we have on offer is in what we aim to achieve and, for me our aim is to share in the sum of the knowledge that is available to us. Everything that is in its way of achieving this needs reflection and imho there is a lot to reflect. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 18:59, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding
So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is window dressing for a decision that's long been made.
Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling the numbers, employing literal wiki spammers to do the consulting, etc.
Wikimedia Foundation Inc. is bad. There are dozens of examples illustrating why this is true, but this forcible rebranding is a particularly good demonstration of the rot.
The people most directly responsible here are Katherine Maher and Heather Walls. They're both subscribed to this mailing list, they both understand that this decision would upset long-time contributors, and they both simply decided to ignore any complaints in favor of attempting to siphon more money from donors and force their "vision" on the broader movement. You don't see either of them defending themselves or their actions here for a reason. They didn't both forget how e-mail works or how the wikis work, they've intentionally chosen to plug their ears and march forward.
What's more offensive, in my opinion, than this forcible rebranding effort is that they've spent and will continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. It would be bad enough to make this unilateral decision and implement it with the existing bloated staff, but instead they've hired agencies and consultants and wasted additional hundreds of thousands of dollars in donor money on this sham exercise.
But don't worry, highly deceptive advertising is back on the projects, in mid-April, to ensure continued funding of this and other charades.
MZMcBride
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
There certainly is a lot to reflect on, isn't there?
Maybe you can do some reflecting on the fact that those "long-time contributors" were, in many cases, working on Wikipedia before most people had ever even heard of it (when I first started working on it, "What's Wikipedia?" would be a question I was often asked if I'd mention it; haven't heard that for a while though), and have been working to build, maintain, and improve it ever since. So maybe there's a reason we care a great deal about it.
And maybe there's a good reason to listen to the people who literally built the thing, made it into what it is, and still day to day keep it going. Maybe we know what we're doing. I think we rather proved it.
Todd
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:00 PM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, When I read something like this, it takes me aback. Yes, people may have an opinion, they may even express it and they even may be wrong. Who cares really. There is enough to dislike in branding, we are not cattle. From a marketing perspective there may be a point. The point would be to bring all that we do together, bring it together so that what it is we are and what is we do better understood by an audience, an audience that we want to entice to like us enough to become part of our Wikimedia movement.
The problem is that the "long time contributors" don't like change. They have invested so much in whatever it is they think makes our projects work that they do not see the forest from the trees. They forget what our primary aim, is and fail to appreciate that all conventions are there to support the aim of sharing in the sum of all knowledge. This week Wikipedia administrators killed off the ListeriaBot because it defied a convention. A convention that they could not explain to me does harm to our public. A convention that exists because it was conceded to English Wikipedia that they could have non free images exclusive to its project. When challenged that they do not care about Wikipedia's quality, that manually maintained lists average out to be not as well maintained as Listeria list there was silence. They did not care because it did not address their need that their convention had to prevail.
"Long time contributors", administrators are the ones expecting others to share their sentiment about everything what is bad. I don't. Katherine Maher brought an end to a period of stagnation. My impression is that at the Wikimedia Foundation things look up. I love it that the WMF wants to expand and I totally agree that English Wikipedia, its best known product, the brand that is known by many is exactly what is not bringing us together.
I prefer people like Mackenzie Lemieux or Jess Wade any time over the "long time contributors".. PS with a blog going back 15 years, with 2,606,298 edits I qualify as a long time contributor..
So if your opinions are as good as the reflections you have on the quality of Wikipedia, I do not care about your opinions. By my calculations there is on average error rate of 4% in lists because of false friends. Magnus blogged how manually maintained list are anything but well maintained lists. The key point of branding in the marketing sense is that it is to bring out the best of what is on offer.
The basis of what we have on offer is in what we aim to achieve and, for me our aim is to share in the sum of the knowledge that is available to us. Everything that is in its way of achieving this needs reflection and imho there is a lot to reflect. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 18:59, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding
So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is window dressing for a decision that's long been made.
Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling the numbers, employing literal wiki spammers to do the consulting, etc.
Wikimedia Foundation Inc. is bad. There are dozens of examples illustrating why this is true, but this forcible rebranding is a particularly good demonstration of the rot.
The people most directly responsible here are Katherine Maher and Heather Walls. They're both subscribed to this mailing list, they both understand that this decision would upset long-time contributors, and they both simply decided to ignore any complaints in favor of attempting to siphon more money from donors and force their "vision" on the broader movement. You don't see either of them defending themselves or their actions here for a reason. They didn't both forget how e-mail works or how the wikis work, they've intentionally chosen to plug their ears and march forward.
What's more offensive, in my opinion, than this forcible rebranding
effort
is that they've spent and will continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. It would be bad enough to make this unilateral decision
and
implement it with the existing bloated staff, but instead they've hired agencies and consultants and wasted additional hundreds of thousands of dollars in donor money on this sham exercise.
But don't worry, highly deceptive advertising is back on the projects, in mid-April, to ensure continued funding of this and other charades.
MZMcBride
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, What you prove is that we maintain a static artifact that does improve with time. What you prove with your reply is that you do not care for the mission, for the quality of Wikipedia but only care to maintain a status quo that is no longer good enough. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 23:16, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
There certainly is a lot to reflect on, isn't there?
Maybe you can do some reflecting on the fact that those "long-time contributors" were, in many cases, working on Wikipedia before most people had ever even heard of it (when I first started working on it, "What's Wikipedia?" would be a question I was often asked if I'd mention it; haven't heard that for a while though), and have been working to build, maintain, and improve it ever since. So maybe there's a reason we care a great deal about it.
And maybe there's a good reason to listen to the people who literally built the thing, made it into what it is, and still day to day keep it going. Maybe we know what we're doing. I think we rather proved it.
Todd
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:00 PM Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, When I read something like this, it takes me aback. Yes, people may have
an
opinion, they may even express it and they even may be wrong. Who cares really. There is enough to dislike in branding, we are not cattle. From a marketing perspective there may be a point. The point would be to bring
all
that we do together, bring it together so that what it is we are and what is we do better understood by an audience, an audience that we want to entice to like us enough to become part of our Wikimedia movement.
The problem is that the "long time contributors" don't like change. They have invested so much in whatever it is they think makes our projects
work
that they do not see the forest from the trees. They forget what our primary aim, is and fail to appreciate that all conventions are there to support the aim of sharing in the sum of all knowledge. This week
Wikipedia
administrators killed off the ListeriaBot because it defied a
convention. A
convention that they could not explain to me does harm to our public. A convention that exists because it was conceded to English Wikipedia that they could have non free images exclusive to its project. When challenged that they do not care about Wikipedia's quality, that manually maintained lists average out to be not as well maintained as Listeria list there was silence. They did not care because it did not address their need that
their
convention had to prevail.
"Long time contributors", administrators are the ones expecting others to share their sentiment about everything what is bad. I don't. Katherine Maher brought an end to a period of stagnation. My impression is that at the Wikimedia Foundation things look up. I love it that the WMF wants to expand and I totally agree that English Wikipedia, its best known
product,
the brand that is known by many is exactly what is not bringing us together.
I prefer people like Mackenzie Lemieux or Jess Wade any time over the
"long
time contributors".. PS with a blog going back 15 years, with 2,606,298 edits I qualify as a long time contributor..
So if your opinions are as good as the reflections you have on the
quality
of Wikipedia, I do not care about your opinions. By my calculations there is on average error rate of 4% in lists because of false friends. Magnus blogged how manually maintained list are anything but well maintained lists. The key point of branding in the marketing sense is that it is to bring out the best of what is on offer.
The basis of what we have on offer is in what we aim to achieve and, for
me
our aim is to share in the sum of the knowledge that is available to us. Everything that is in its way of achieving this needs reflection and imho there is a lot to reflect. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 18:59, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding
So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is window dressing for a decision that's long been made.
Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling the numbers, employing literal wiki spammers to do the consulting, etc.
Wikimedia Foundation Inc. is bad. There are dozens of examples illustrating why this is true, but this forcible rebranding is a particularly good demonstration of the rot.
The people most directly responsible here are Katherine Maher and
Heather
Walls. They're both subscribed to this mailing list, they both
understand
that this decision would upset long-time contributors, and they both simply decided to ignore any complaints in favor of attempting to
siphon
more money from donors and force their "vision" on the broader
movement.
You don't see either of them defending themselves or their actions here for a reason. They didn't both forget how e-mail works or how the wikis work, they've intentionally chosen to plug their ears and march
forward.
What's more offensive, in my opinion, than this forcible rebranding
effort
is that they've spent and will continue to spend hundreds of thousands
of
dollars on it. It would be bad enough to make this unilateral decision
and
implement it with the existing bloated staff, but instead they've hired agencies and consultants and wasted additional hundreds of thousands of dollars in donor money on this sham exercise.
But don't worry, highly deceptive advertising is back on the projects,
in
mid-April, to ensure continued funding of this and other charades.
MZMcBride
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 02:07, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
... ... FAQ 2.6: "... findings of the 2030 research and planning community review [link to email],...." -- Perhaps a "link to email" is missing? If it so, it's a minor thing of course and can be fixed.
-- While revisiting the page I saw the changes have been made. Perhaps a response to the email could have been better, anyway, thanks for making changes on the FAQ
Comment in personal capacity, thanks User:Titodutta
Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 23:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who has predetermined this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about
it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points.
Now,
there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion
with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point
I
get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps)
is
taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me
back
to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC
feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page
[3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ
[4]. The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project
talk page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever
they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming
convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word
"Wikimedia"
with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more
possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project
timeline
[6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have
a
word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by
those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal,
just
part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do
not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
> There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC)
speak, I
just
> didn't hear that. > Kind regards, > (Comment in personal capacity) > > Thanks > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
and
> > share an invitation to join an event this month. > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the
world, so
we are
> > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
to all
> > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the
time and
> > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating
the
project
> > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants
and
smaller
> > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
and
> > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed
on a
more
> > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
> planned > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > > > But we do have things to share: > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
> to > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project
team
will
> > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00
GMT.
Snøhetta
> > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
> > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final,
unified
concept.
> > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
around
> > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall
design
system.
> > The session will also be recorded and made available for
viewing
after.
> You > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a
> > proposal for a naming convention or design. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Samir and the brand project team > > > > [1] > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
> > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > > > Steam via Youtube Live: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and
this is
even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29 > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address
the
concerns
> > and > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and
have
now
> added > > > an > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
about
the
> > block > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the
process of
> updating > > > the > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
those
pages
> > to > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial > relationship > > > with > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community
ban
thats
> > been > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
> > been > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
> they > > > start > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are
there
needs to
> be > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with
the
community
> > > first > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
> the > > > hen > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything
they
> recommend. > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into
> the > > > 2030 > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is
that
should
> > have > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > > comprehensible > > > not > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where,
how,
why
we
> > will > > > be > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions
an
> > > unwillingness > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I
have
seen so
> > > far, it > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their
homework on
how we
> > > > > operate, > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't
care, and
plan
> to > > > spin > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy
pages with
lots
> of > > > buzz, > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
Maybe
I am
> > > wrong, > > > > > and > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from
the
outside?
> > > Block > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of
the
> > community. > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are
we as a
> > movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't
directed
> > personally > > > at > > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
> the > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of
> > > resources > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that
this
> project > > > is a > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
> the > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> > > itself as > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
> > and > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
> problems, > > > and > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community.
I
don't
> think > > > that > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
> > Snøhetta > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've
> > > been > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process
during
the
past
> > few > > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this
> > > program > > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> > > associated > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the
community's view
on
> > > whether > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community
wants a
branding
> > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community
decide on
the
> > > project's > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > > > August > > > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > Noongarpedia: > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Greetings, There was a continuous practice of citing/overciting the FAQ page, sometimes without answering the questions directly. This happened more on the other mailing lists (For example: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2020-April/014589.htm... )
Now, the /FAQ page, which was being continuously referred to, has a "neutrality of this page is disputed" tag https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communications/Wikimedia_brands.... It earlier had an essay tag. I have read its talk page.
Until things are settled, which page is recommended (if there is any)?
(Not to anyone in specific, a question/thought in general)
Regards, User:Titodutta
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 at 16:57, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 02:07, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
... ... FAQ 2.6: "... findings of the 2030 research and planning community review [link to email],...." -- Perhaps a "link to email" is missing? If it so, it's a minor thing of course and can be fixed.
-- While revisiting the page I saw the changes have been made. Perhaps a response to the email could have been better, anyway, thanks for making changes on the FAQ
Comment in personal capacity, thanks User:Titodutta
Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 23:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who has predetermined this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are
not
directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making
further
conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about
it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points.
Now,
there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words
someone
who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion
with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be
faulty,
and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC.
Example
below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A
point I
get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps)
is
taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me
back
to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC
feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a
summary
about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project
page [3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ
[4]. The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project
talk page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever
they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed
as
well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming
convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word
"Wikimedia"
with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more
possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project
timeline
[6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with
the
communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before
the full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we
have a
word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by
those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal,
just
part of the heat in the kitchen. > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
movement?
> > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I
do not
think > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has
probably
spends
> more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects. > > Best > Yaroslav > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC)
speak, I
just > > didn't hear that. > > Kind regards, > > (Comment in personal capacity) > > > > Thanks > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty < selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
and > > > share an invitation to join an event this month. > > > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the
world, so
we are > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
to all > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the
time and
> > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating
the
project > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants
and
smaller > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
and > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants
informed on a
more > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
> > planned > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > > > > > But we do have things to share: > > > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the
concepts
referred > > to > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project
team
will
> > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00
GMT.
Snøhetta > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final,
unified
concept. > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the
upcoming work
around > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall
design
system. > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for
viewing
after. > > You > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a > > > proposal for a naming convention or design. > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > Samir and the brand project team > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
> > > > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > > > > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > > > > > Steam via Youtube Live: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote: > > > > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and
this is
even > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29 > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > > > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address
the
concerns > > > and > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and
have
now
> > added > > > > an > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full
details about
the > > > block > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the
process of
> > updating > > > > the > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to
add those
pages > > > to > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a
financial
> > relationship > > > > with > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a
community ban
thats > > > been > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with
many
users
who > > > been > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors
but
before
> > they > > > > start > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are
there
needs to > > be > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with
the
community > > > > first > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox
to
rebuild > > the > > > > hen > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything
they
> > recommend. > > > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into > > the > > > > 2030 > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is
that
should > > > have > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > > > comprehensible > > > > not > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where,
how,
why
we > > > will > > > > be > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their
actions an
> > > > unwillingness > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I
have
seen so > > > > far, it > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their
homework on
how we > > > > > > operate, > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't
care, and
plan > > to > > > > spin > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy
pages with
lots > > of > > > > buzz, > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't
avoid. Maybe
I am > > > > wrong, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from
the
outside? > > > > Block > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding
of the
> > > community. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are
we as a
> > > movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't
directed
> > > personally > > > > at > > > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that
Snøhetta
deserved > > the > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of > > > > resources > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think
that this
> > project > > > > is a > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of > > the > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding > > > > itself as > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities > > > and > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
> > problems, > > > > and > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the
community. I
don't
> > think > > > > that > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
> > > Snøhetta > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've > > > > been > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process
during
the
past > > > few > > > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this > > > > program > > > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> > > > associated > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the
community's view
on > > > > whether > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community
wants a
branding > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community
decide on
the > > > > project's > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration* > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together* > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021 > > > > > > August > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimania:
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > Noongarpedia: > > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Tito,
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:01 PM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings, There was a continuous practice of citing/overciting the FAQ page, sometimes without answering the questions directly. This happened more on the other mailing lists (For example:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2020-April/014589.htm... )
Now, the /FAQ page, which was being continuously referred to, has a "neutrality of this page is disputed" tag
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communications/Wikimedia_brands... . It earlier had an essay tag. I have read its talk page.
Until things are settled, which page is recommended (if there is any)?
(Not to anyone in specific, a question/thought in general)
As the person who published that notice...
I think the FAQ is an ok place to find answers to questions. The Neutrality notice was a short term solution to improve previous versions of notices placed there. If anyone wonders about why these notices, you can find several related discussions in the Talk page, and the edit history is also quite telling. That page has been a tense corner for months.
Beyond the specific scope of the Brand project, a point of contention has been and continues to be more Meta: whether a project team (of any kind, not just a Foundation team) can explain a project in their terms (including FAQs) or anyone can edit any page in Meta (including modifying, deleting or reverting answers from the project team in the project FAQ). The topic is more nuanced and complex than this, I bet all parties are quite frustrated by now, and this is probably a good meta conversation to have in Meta at some point, detached from specific projects and heated discussions.
Back to this FAQ, this week the team has prepared updates to that page. Tito, you asking here is an extra motivation to proceed. :) If anyone wants to help, watching the page and providing alternative views if new discussions arise is a good way to contribute to the improvement of the FAQ and hopefully the removal of that notice soon.
As a former, active admin on Meta (but not a current one), I'd like to make a few points. I have also not been heavily involved in this rebranding project, though I should disclose that I've taken a position against it.
1. A page such as this one can play one or both of two roles: (a) a FAQ about the aims and philosophy of the WMF's rebranding project, and (b) a FAQ about the general concept of rebranding, and the community's views on the matter.
2. It seems reasonable to me that WMF staff have authority over (a), but certainly not over (b).
3. WMF staff could also, if they so choose, use the Wikimedia "governance wiki" (wiki.wikimediafoundation.org) to host (a); so the choice to post it on Meta Wiki itself might be questioned.
4. In an ideal world, community views on as important a topic as rebranding would be clearly synthesized into a document like a FAQ first, to a point where people advocating for various positions could agree that the basic information presented is accurate. (This is more or less the consensus process we use on Wikipedia and other projects.) Once that is done, it would be a fairly trivial matter for WMF to construct a FAQ, echoing or even incorporating the language already agreed to, that would both express its own objectives and views, and also honor opposing views.
5. These points, in my view, all point to the position expressed in recent days and weeks by many community members, i.e., that this process has been conducted in a way that is either too fast, or too poorly structured, or both, to establish a solid (excuse the word) foundation for a good decision.
As a short comment on this disagreement, though, I think WMF staff has two simple options: (a) Move the FAQ to a site clearly under its own control, like the "Governance Wiki," or (b) permit the Meta Wiki community to assess the neutrality of the page. Neither option seems like a particularly bad one to me, so I'm a little surprised to see this spilling over onto the mailing list.
-Pete -- [[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:00 PM Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Tito,
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:01 PM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings, There was a continuous practice of citing/overciting the FAQ page, sometimes without answering the questions directly. This happened more on the other mailing lists (For example:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2020-April/014589.htm...
)
Now, the /FAQ page, which was being continuously referred to, has a "neutrality of this page is disputed" tag
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communications/Wikimedia_brands...
. It earlier had an essay tag. I have read its talk page.
Until things are settled, which page is recommended (if there is any)?
(Not to anyone in specific, a question/thought in general)
As the person who published that notice...
I think the FAQ is an ok place to find answers to questions. The Neutrality notice was a short term solution to improve previous versions of notices placed there. If anyone wonders about why these notices, you can find several related discussions in the Talk page, and the edit history is also quite telling. That page has been a tense corner for months.
Beyond the specific scope of the Brand project, a point of contention has been and continues to be more Meta: whether a project team (of any kind, not just a Foundation team) can explain a project in their terms (including FAQs) or anyone can edit any page in Meta (including modifying, deleting or reverting answers from the project team in the project FAQ). The topic is more nuanced and complex than this, I bet all parties are quite frustrated by now, and this is probably a good meta conversation to have in Meta at some point, detached from specific projects and heated discussions.
Back to this FAQ, this week the team has prepared updates to that page. Tito, you asking here is an extra motivation to proceed. :) If anyone wants to help, watching the page and providing alternative views if new discussions arise is a good way to contribute to the improvement of the FAQ and hopefully the removal of that notice soon.
-- Quim Gil (he/him) Senior Manager of Community Relations @ Wikimedia Foundation https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
My apologies for the error, the "Governance Wiki" URL is:
foundation.wikimedia.org
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:15 AM Pete Forsyth peteforsyth@gmail.com wrote:
As a former, active admin on Meta (but not a current one), I'd like to make a few points. I have also not been heavily involved in this rebranding project, though I should disclose that I've taken a position against it.
- A page such as this one can play one or both of two roles: (a) a FAQ
about the aims and philosophy of the WMF's rebranding project, and (b) a FAQ about the general concept of rebranding, and the community's views on the matter.
- It seems reasonable to me that WMF staff have authority over (a), but
certainly not over (b).
- WMF staff could also, if they so choose, use the Wikimedia "governance
wiki" (wiki.wikimediafoundation.org) to host (a); so the choice to post it on Meta Wiki itself might be questioned.
- In an ideal world, community views on as important a topic as
rebranding would be clearly synthesized into a document like a FAQ first, to a point where people advocating for various positions could agree that the basic information presented is accurate. (This is more or less the consensus process we use on Wikipedia and other projects.) Once that is done, it would be a fairly trivial matter for WMF to construct a FAQ, echoing or even incorporating the language already agreed to, that would both express its own objectives and views, and also honor opposing views.
- These points, in my view, all point to the position expressed in recent
days and weeks by many community members, i.e., that this process has been conducted in a way that is either too fast, or too poorly structured, or both, to establish a solid (excuse the word) foundation for a good decision.
As a short comment on this disagreement, though, I think WMF staff has two simple options: (a) Move the FAQ to a site clearly under its own control, like the "Governance Wiki," or (b) permit the Meta Wiki community to assess the neutrality of the page. Neither option seems like a particularly bad one to me, so I'm a little surprised to see this spilling over onto the mailing list.
-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:00 PM Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Tito,
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:01 PM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings, There was a continuous practice of citing/overciting the FAQ page, sometimes without answering the questions directly. This happened more
on
the other mailing lists (For example:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2020-April/014589.htm...
)
Now, the /FAQ page, which was being continuously referred to, has a "neutrality of this page is disputed" tag
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Communications/Wikimedia_brands...
. It earlier had an essay tag. I have read its talk page.
Until things are settled, which page is recommended (if there is any)?
(Not to anyone in specific, a question/thought in general)
As the person who published that notice...
I think the FAQ is an ok place to find answers to questions. The Neutrality notice was a short term solution to improve previous versions of notices placed there. If anyone wonders about why these notices, you can find several related discussions in the Talk page, and the edit history is also quite telling. That page has been a tense corner for months.
Beyond the specific scope of the Brand project, a point of contention has been and continues to be more Meta: whether a project team (of any kind, not just a Foundation team) can explain a project in their terms (including FAQs) or anyone can edit any page in Meta (including modifying, deleting or reverting answers from the project team in the project FAQ). The topic is more nuanced and complex than this, I bet all parties are quite frustrated by now, and this is probably a good meta conversation to have in Meta at some point, detached from specific projects and heated discussions.
Back to this FAQ, this week the team has prepared updates to that page. Tito, you asking here is an extra motivation to proceed. :) If anyone wants to help, watching the page and providing alternative views if new discussions arise is a good way to contribute to the improvement of the FAQ and hopefully the removal of that notice soon.
-- Quim Gil (he/him) Senior Manager of Community Relations @ Wikimedia Foundation https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
A LOT of people worldwide are dying and have died today, some are people we know or love, and this is the important and urgent "community branding" project that WMF management wants to spend their employee time and goodwill free volunteer effort on. Really?
It seems fair to repost my statement from a month ago, perhaps by volunteers in the real "community" just keeping on repeating, repeating and repeating how this is pointless and damaging, eventually some of the management team might accidentally read some of the negative feedback through their "supportive criticism" rose-tinted jargon bubbles:
"WMF management, stop flushing away the donor's money on this, please. It has already been overwhelmingly rejected, failed, and not firmly ending it makes you appear unable to stop paying consultants to make up more marketing jargon nonsense to justify their invoice." (14 March 2020)
How about you cancel the branding consultancy and direct 100% of that pile of cash towards the range of Wikimedia Covid-19 projects to create great factual content to combat commercial lobbying and fake news, the type of fake news we see promoted by the President of the United States every day in the global media?
Thanks! Fae
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 09:49, Samir Elsharbaty selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) Community Brand and Marketing coordinator Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
* Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for projects other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published * New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia, the notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the architecture * It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than Wikipedia, specific functionality is hardly ever developed * In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English notability. Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly requested for use with Wikidata * there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products. Many Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them * even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is really good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to be highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you using the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
* Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for projects other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published * New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia, the notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the architecture * It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than Wikipedia, specific functionality is hardly ever developed * In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English notability. Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly requested for use with Wikidata * there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products. Many Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them * even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is really good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better job, a job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to be highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you using the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia, the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly requested for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products. Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a
new
branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these
proposals,
Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has
already
been given, and has created a process with built-in community
involvement.
The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with
97
volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups
to
answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out
of
the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the
project
talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in
Snøhetta's
open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various
points
in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human
being
to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org
and
the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop
us a
note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and
look
for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative. If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those projects for consideration. If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who have no authority over Commons. As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better job, a job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to be highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you using the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia, the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly requested for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products. Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a
new
branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these
proposals,
Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has
already
been given, and has created a process with built-in community
involvement.
The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with
97
volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups
to
answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out
of
the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the
project
talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in
Snøhetta's
open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various
points
in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human
being
to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org
and
the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop
us a
note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and
look
for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive, unfortunately.
Aron
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias.
En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative. If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those projects for consideration. If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who have no authority over Commons. As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better job, a job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
be
highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
using
the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for
projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia,
the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the
architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than
Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English
notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly
requested
for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products.
Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is
really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to
share
in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
The question then is whether it is the community of English Wikipedia exerting this influence, or WMF failing to allocate resources fairly, and if so, why? Is it just that the massive internet presence of English Wikipedia exerts an irresistible gravitational attraction on the resources like a black hole? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Aron Demian Sent: 15 March 2020 12:25 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive, unfortunately.
Aron
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias.
En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative. If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those projects for consideration. If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who have no authority over Commons. As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better job, a job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
be
highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
using
the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for
projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia,
the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the
architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than
Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English
notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly
requested
for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products.
Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is
really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to
share
in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, I would rather answer a different question: What would it take for us to share the sum of all knowledge available to us to any and all people in any and all languages they can read.
The benefit of such a marketing approach and not an antagonistic approach is that English Wikipedia may do what it does, it may even fit in with what is shown to work. When we are to share the sum of all the knowledge available to us, we seek out where this information is and, how we open it up best to our public. Let me be clear, so far the English Wikipedia has been my go to project to liberate information to Wikidata. Once it it there, it becomes easier to provide proper disambiguation and prevent false friends to pop up later. Maintenance is easier; you do it only once for any and all our projects.
We have come a long way in getting to the point where Commons is truly multilingual.. My favourite example is "appelmoes" [1]. What we now really need is have marketeers to opening Commons up to a public. We should talk to Google and seek synergy, Commons is valuable when people are to use legal material for illustration. They have to find it first.
The same goes for Wikisource, what is available for use to a public. How do we leverage what we have and find all this hard work a public.
We do need research. We do need marketing research and we need a marketing approach to getting the sum of the knowledge that we have to a public. I do not want to argue the rights and wrongs of English Wikipedia. I trust them to appreciate that they are part of the Wikimedia mission to get the public well informed and provide our information with a neural point of view. Never mind where this information is or in what language. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=...
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 16:48, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
The question then is whether it is the community of English Wikipedia exerting this influence, or WMF failing to allocate resources fairly, and if so, why? Is it just that the massive internet presence of English Wikipedia exerts an irresistible gravitational attraction on the resources like a black hole? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Aron Demian Sent: 15 March 2020 12:25 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive, unfortunately.
Aron
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias.
En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative. If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that
they
should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those projects for consideration. If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who have no authority over Commons. As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost
universally
but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project
of
a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better
job, a
job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about
300
projects and make several good points about how people confuse
Wikipedia
with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
be
highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
using
the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as
a
unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300
projects
and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for
projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia,
the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the
architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than
Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English
notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly
requested
for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products.
Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is
really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other
languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may
be
that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to
share
in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, Back your pardon. I do not blame the English Wikipedia for the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. It does a reasonable job at informing an English reading public. The point that I make is that we do not consider how the bias towards English Wikipedia prevents us from reaching out and sharing in the sum of all knowledge.
There is documentation that Cebuan Wikipedia articles are well presented and provide a more complete coverage of the knowledge domains it covers. Also please remember that all US places were added to English Wikipedia by bot.
When I document bias, it is for you to understand that this bias exists. I stopped writing in English Wikipedia because the American perspective was more relevant that an international perspective.
At stake in this thread is making Wikipedia a central brand. I indicated earlier that those living the English Wikipedia reality are not aware of the negative effects of its bias. In effect you tell me to do something about it. Well, I have been blogging about Wikimedia for the last 15 years [1] and I learned that documentation may be relevant but it is unlikely to make people see what is in front of them. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:16, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative. If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those projects for consideration. If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who have no authority over Commons. As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better job, a job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
be
highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
using
the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for
projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia,
the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the
architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than
Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English
notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly
requested
for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products.
Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is
really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to
share
in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this
group
when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing
with
the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2]
ideas
around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner
with
Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working
on
complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed
naming
convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design
for
movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a
new
branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these
proposals,
Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has
already
been given, and has created a process with built-in community
involvement.
The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online
with
97
volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups
to
answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came
out
of
the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the
one(s)
you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual
concepts
built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the
project
talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around
naming
(expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in
Snøhetta's
open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of
the
channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various
points
in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas
of
the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that
we
don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human
being
to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions
of
people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals
the
movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org
and
the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop
us a
note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and
look
for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Fair enough, I agree that the bias towards the English Wikipedia exists. It is natural and to be expected within English Wikipedia, but should not exist elsewhere in the Wikimedia community. I also agree that sometimes a regional bias exists because people from that region add more content, and we tend to add the content we know and care about and for which we have sources. I also agree that making Wikipedia the primary brand is likely to increase bias and tend to marginalise the non-Wikipedia projects even more. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 12:47 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Back your pardon. I do not blame the English Wikipedia for the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. It does a reasonable job at informing an English reading public. The point that I make is that we do not consider how the bias towards English Wikipedia prevents us from reaching out and sharing in the sum of all knowledge.
There is documentation that Cebuan Wikipedia articles are well presented and provide a more complete coverage of the knowledge domains it covers. Also please remember that all US places were added to English Wikipedia by bot.
When I document bias, it is for you to understand that this bias exists. I stopped writing in English Wikipedia because the American perspective was more relevant that an international perspective.
At stake in this thread is making Wikipedia a central brand. I indicated earlier that those living the English Wikipedia reality are not aware of the negative effects of its bias. In effect you tell me to do something about it. Well, I have been blogging about Wikimedia for the last 15 years [1] and I learned that documentation may be relevant but it is unlikely to make people see what is in front of them. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:16, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative. If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those projects for consideration. If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who have no authority over Commons. As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in other languages is frustrated from within WMF. We could do a better job, a job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
be
highly toxic". Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
using
the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously objected to? Something else that is not obvious? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with English Wikipedia.
- Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for
projects
other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
- New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia,
the
notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the
architecture
- It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than
Wikipedia,
specific functionality is hardly ever developed
- In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English
notability.
Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly
requested
for use with Wikidata
- there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products.
Many
Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose because we do not seek an audience for them
- even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is
really
good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to
share
in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not what English Wikipedia deems notable. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this
group
when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing
with
the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2]
ideas
around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner
with
Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working
on
complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed
naming
convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design
for
movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a
new
branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these
proposals,
Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has
already
been given, and has created a process with built-in community
involvement.
The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online
with
97
volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups
to
answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came
out
of
the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the
one(s)
you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual
concepts
built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the
project
talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around
naming
(expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in
Snøhetta's
open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of
the
channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various
points
in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas
of
the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that
we
don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human
being
to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions
of
people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals
the
movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org
and
the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop
us a
note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and
look
for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hello,
I heard indirectly that the rebranding work is being paused due to the issues with COVID-19. Is anyone able to confirm this? I would be relieved if WMF is pausing and will reconsider what it's doing with regards to rebranding.
To reiterate a comment that I made previously, I am OK in principle with having discussions about branding.
However, there are multiple reasons that I am unhappy with the current process.
Hello,
The pause we announced was to the community activity on the movement brand project.[1] With the global pandemic, we thought that it should be everyone’s priority to take care of themselves and their families right now. In the meantime, our project team will be working with Snohetta to review the project materials and make any necessary adjustments to the timeline.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo... ?
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 4:31 AM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I heard indirectly that the rebranding work is being paused due to the issues with COVID-19. Is anyone able to confirm this? I would be relieved if WMF is pausing and will reconsider what it's doing with regards to rebranding.
To reiterate a comment that I made previously, I am OK in principle with having discussions about branding.
However, there are multiple reasons that I am unhappy with the current process.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Essie,
The answer to that proposal was a clear, unambiguous "no". Not "keep asking".
Immediately stop this process. And don't use an agency blocked for spamming our projects.
Todd
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:33 AM Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
The movement has events a couple of magnitudes more important and urgent to spend time on.
As for being invited to take part in a "brand network" discussion, of all places on *Facebook*, this is so fundamentally wrong, I would think it was a joke.
WMF management, stop flushing away the donor's money on this, please. It has already been overwhelmingly rejected, failed, and not firmly ending it makes you appear unable to stop paying consultants to make up more marketing jargon nonsense to justify their invoice.
Fae
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 17:33, Essie Zar ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
I put a reply on the "What does free knowledge mean to you" questionnaire, but it did not turn up on the list below the edit box. Is the set of published replies being censored or cherry-picked to remove anything that someone does not like? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Essie Zar Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 12:48 AM To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
* What is a concept? A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
Hello Essie,
Given all of the feedback so far, it seems we need a strong brand *network*, more than a struggle over a single brand; and strong shared identity *within* the communities and their contributors.
I am glad that recent discussions seem to be grounded in identity and clarity. If we want to start leading more with Wikipedia in outreach, in every language of the world, *nothing* is stopping us. But a* re*branding & the resulting ongoing turmoil would have a predictable cost, at a time when we have many other things to focus on, that needs to be balanced with obvious gain.
<Pause to remember the projects loved and lost that tapered off within years of a dramatic, beautiful, extensive rebrand>
Thank you (all) for your extensive work on this. It would help to be even more exquisitely clear about the expected outcomes in May and beyond.*
Wikilove, SJ
* I still think of the Wikidata newsletter as a model of regular clarity in terms of setting expectations.
🌍🌏🌎🌑
On Fri., Mar. 13, 2020, 1:33 p.m. Essie Zar, ezar@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Everyone,
There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out.
As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals, Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement. The process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97 volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers, foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a movement.
Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s) you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts built or selected by workshop participants.
Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be available on Meta starting next month.
Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the channels mentioned.
https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-yo...
Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us there.
Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a note at brandproject@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
Thanks!
Essie Zar
(from the movement brand identity project team)
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093382.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediabrandnetwork/
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
- What is a concept?
A tool making the complex more understandable.
Concepts make complex subjects more understandable. They manage to consolidate vast amounts of facts, data and details into a singular definition in its context. By creating concepts we allow ourselves to acknowledge the complexity yet dare to step away from differences and look for similarities that binds it all together.
-- *Essie Zar* (she/her) Brand Manager Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org