Since the process has decided its not hearing that the community doesnt
want the change why continue to pretend the communities input or interest
in the project is even wanted.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:25, John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the
process and Wikimedia
Foundation.
Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused
on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction
to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name
would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says
“no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a
change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an
earthquake.
I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but
what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack
of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to
this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen.
Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because
as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.
As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
John Erling Blad
/jeblad
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and
has written a summary
about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities
organized by the project
itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in
the Brand project talk
page
[5], where we are answering questions and
discussing topics whenever they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely
that any naming convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
[6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the
Wikimedia Foundation
leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Founda…
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_m…
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post
this stuff, which comes
across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
<peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard
that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
> voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just
> part of the heat in the kitchen.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of
Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
think
> he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
> more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia
projects.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
> just
> > > didn't hear that.
> > > Kind regards,
> > > (Comment in personal capacity)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
> selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
> and
> > > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> > > >
> > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world,
so
> we are
> > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
> to all
> > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time
and
> > > > priorities of the project
collaborators. This means updating the
> project
> > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
> smaller
> > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
> and
> > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on
a
> more
> > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
> > > planned
> > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> >
> > But we do have things to share:
> >
> > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> >
> > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
> > to
> > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
> >
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
Snøhetta
> > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
> from
> > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
> concept.
> > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
> around
> > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
> system.
> > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
> after.
> > > You
> > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a
> > proposal for a naming convention or
design.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Samir and the brand project team
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
> >
>
> > > [2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> > >
> > > [3]
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> > >
> > > [4] Join via Zoom:
> > >
> > >
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> > >
> > > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> > >
> > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > >
> > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this
is
even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes
welcomed.
> > >
> > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > <selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
> > > and
> > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
now
> > > added
> > > > > an
> > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
about
> the
> > > > block
> > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process
of
> > > updating
> > > > > the
> > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
those
> pages
> > > > to
> > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samir
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation
<https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra(a)gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> relationship
> > > with
> > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
thats
> > > been
> > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with
many
users
who
> > > been
> > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
> > > they
> > > > > start
> > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are
there
> needs to
> > > be
> > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with
the
> community
> > > > > first
> > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the
fox to
> rebuild
> > > the
> > > > > hen
> > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything
they
> > > recommend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into
> the
> > > 2030
> > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
should
> > > have
> > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > > comprehensible
> > > > not
> > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
why
we
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard(a)gmail.com>
> >
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions
an
> > > unwillingness
> > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archi…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > > > <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From
what I have
> seen so
> > > > > far, it
> > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their
homework
on
> how we
> > > > > > > operate,
> > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies,
don't care,
and
> plan
> > > to
> > > > > spin
> > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy
pages
with
> lots
> > > of
> > > > > buzz,
> > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they
can't avoid.
Maybe
> I am
> > > > > wrong,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell
from the
> outside?
> > > > > Block
> > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their
understanding of the
> > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > > > wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > > > On
> > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project:
Who are we
as a
> > > > movement?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments
aren't directed
> > > > personally
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that
Snøhetta
> deserved
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF
was a good
steward
> of
> > > > > resources
> > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't
think that
this
> >
project
> > > > is a
> > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
> the
> > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> > > itself as
> > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
> > > and
> > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
> > problems,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the
community. I
don't
> > think
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I
wouldn't
involve
> > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this
process during
the
past
> > few
> > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this
> > > > program
> > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> > > > > associated
> > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the
community's
view
> on
> > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the
community wants a
> branding
> > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the
community decide
on
> the
> > > > > project's
> > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any
consultant
should
be
> > > > involved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > --
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
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