This paper (first reference) is the result of a class project I was part of
almost two years ago for CSCI 5417 Information Retrieval Systems. It builds
on a class project I did in CSCI 5832 Natural Language Processing and which
I presented at Wikimania '07. The project was very late as we didn't send
the final paper in until the day before new years. This technical report was
never really announced that I recall so I thought it would be interesting to
look briefly at the results. The goal of this paper was to break articles
down into surface features and latent features and then use those to study
the rating system being used, predict article quality and rank results in a
search engine. We used the [[random forests]] classifier which allowed us to
analyze the contribution of each feature to performance by looking directly
at the weights that were assigned. While the surface analysis was performed
on the whole english wikipedia, the latent analysis was performed on the
simple english wikipedia (it is more expensive to compute). = Surface
features = * Readability measures are the single best predictor of quality
that I have found, as defined by the Wikipedia Editorial Team (WET). The
[[Automated Readability Index]], [[Gunning Fog Index]] and [[Flesch-Kincaid
Grade Level]] were the strongest predictors, followed by length of article
html, number of paragraphs, [[Flesh Reading Ease]], [[Smog Grading]], number
of internal links, [[Laesbarhedsindex Readability Formula]], number of words
and number of references. Weakly predictive were number of to be's, number
of sentences, [[Coleman-Liau Index]], number of templates, PageRank, number
of external links, number of relative links. Not predictive (overall - see
the end of section 2 for the per-rating score breakdown): Number of h2 or
h3's, number of conjunctions, number of images*, average word length, number
of h4's, number of prepositions, number of pronouns, number of interlanguage
links, average syllables per word, number of nominalizations, article age
(based on page id), proportion of questions, average sentence length. :*
Number of images was actually by far the single strongest predictor of any
class, but only for Featured articles. Because it was so good at picking out
featured articles and somewhat good at picking out A and G articles the
classifier was confused in so many cases that the overall contribution of
this feature to classification performance is zero. :* Number of external
links is strongly predictive of Featured articles. :* The B class is highly
distinctive. It has a strong "signature," with high predictive value
assigned to many features. The Featured class is also very distinctive. F, B
and S (Stop/Stub) contain the most information.
:* A is the least distinct class, not being very different from F or G. =
Latent features = The algorithm used for latent analysis, which is an
analysis of the occurence of words in every document with respect to the
link structure of the encyclopedia ("concepts"), is [[Latent Dirichlet
Allocation]]. This part of the analysis was done by CS PhD student Praful
Mangalath. An example of what can be done with the result of this analysis
is that you provide a word (a search query) such as "hippie". You can then
look at the weight of every article for the word hippie. You can pick the
article with the largest weight, and then look at its link network. You can
pick out the articles that this article links to and/or which link to this
article that are also weighted strongly for the word hippie, while also
contributing maximally to this articles "hippieness". We tried this query in
our system (LDA), Google (site:en.wikipedia.org hippie), and the Simple
English Wikipedia's Lucene search engine. The breakdown of articles occuring
in the top ten search results for this word for those engines is: * LDA
only: [[Acid rock]], [[Aldeburgh Festival]], [[Anne Murray]], [[Carl
Radle]], [[Harry Nilsson]], [[Jack Kerouac]], [[Phil Spector]], [[Plastic
Ono Band]], [[Rock and Roll]], [[Salvador Allende]], [[Smothers brothers]],
[[Stanley Kubrick]]. * Google only: [[Glam Rock]], [[South Park]]. * Simple
only: [[African Americans]], [[Charles Manson]], [[Counterculture]], [[Drug
use]], [[Flower Power]], [[Nuclear weapons]], [[Phish]], [[Sexual
liberation]], [[Summer of Love]] * LDA & Google & Simple: [[Hippie]],
[[Human Be-in]], [[Students for a democratic society]], [[Woodstock
festival]] * LDA & Google: [[Psychedelic Pop]] * Google & Simple: [[Lysergic
acid diethylamide]], [[Summer of Love]] ( See the paper for the articles
produced for the keywords philosophy and economics ) = Discussion /
Conclusion = * The results of the latent analysis are totally up to your
perception. But what is interesting is that the LDA features predict the WET
ratings of quality just as well as the surface level features. Both feature
sets (surface and latent) both pull out all almost of the information that
the rating system bears. * The rating system devised by the WET is not
distinctive. You can best tell the difference between, grouped together,
Featured, A and Good articles vs B articles. Featured, A and Good articles
are also quite distinctive (Figure 1). Note that in this study we didn't
look at Start's and Stubs, but in earlier paper we did. :* This is
interesting when compared to this recent entry on the YouTube blog. "Five
Stars Dominate Ratings"
I think a sane, well researched (with actual subjects) rating system
well within the purview of the Usability Initiative. Helping people find and
create good content is what Wikipedia is all about. Having a solid rating
system allows you to reorganized the user interface, the Wikipedia
namespace, and the main namespace around good content and bad content as
needed. If you don't have a solid, information bearing rating system you
don't know what good content really is (really bad content is easy to spot).
:* My Wikimania talk was all about gathering data from people about articles
and using that to train machines to automatically pick out good content. You
ask people questions along dimensions that make sense to people, and give
the machine access to other surface features (such as a statistical measure
of readability, or length) and latent features (such as can be derived from
document word occurence and encyclopedia link structure). I referenced page
262 of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance to give an example of the
kind of qualitative features I would ask people. It really depends on what
features end up bearing information, to be tested in "the lab". Each word is
an example dimension of quality: We have "*unity, vividness, authority,
economy, sensitivity, clarity, emphasis, flow, suspense, brilliance,
precision, proportion, depth and so on.*" You then use surface and latent
features to predict these values for all articles. You can also say, when a
person rates this article as high on the x scale, they also mean that it has
has this much of these surface and these latent features.
= References =
- DeHoust, C., Mangalath, P., Mingus., B. (2008). *Improving search in
Wikipedia through quality and concept discovery*. Technical Report.
- Rassbach, L., Mingus., B, Blackford, T. (2007). *Exploring the
feasibility of automatically rating online article quality*. Technical
I have asked and received permission to forward to you all this most
excellent bit of news.
The linguist list, is a most excellent resource for people interested in the
field of linguistics. As I mentioned some time ago they have had a funding
drive and in that funding drive they asked for a certain amount of money in
a given amount of days and they would then have a project on Wikipedia to
learn what needs doing to get better coverage for the field of linguistics.
What you will read in this mail that the total community of linguists are
asked to cooperate. I am really thrilled as it will also get us more
linguists interested in what we do. My hope is that a fraction will be
interested in the languages that they care for and help it become more
relevant. As a member of the "language prevention committee", I love to get
more knowledgeable people involved in our smaller projects. If it means that
we get more requests for more projects we will really feel embarrassed with
all the new projects we will have to approve because of the quality of the
Incubator content and the quality of the linguistic arguments why we should
approve yet another language :)
NB Is this not a really clever way of raising money; give us this much in
this time frame and we will then do this as a bonus...
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: LINGUIST Network <linguist(a)linguistlist.org>
Date: Jun 18, 2007 6:53 PM
Subject: 18.1831, All: Call for Participation: Wikipedia Volunteers
LINGUIST List: Vol-18-1831. Mon Jun 18 2007. ISSN: 1068 - 4875.
Subject: 18.1831, All: Call for Participation: Wikipedia Volunteers
Moderators: Anthony Aristar, Eastern Michigan U <aristar(a)linguistlist.org>
Helen Aristar-Dry, Eastern Michigan U <hdry(a)linguistlist.org>
Reviews: Laura Welcher, Rosetta Project
The LINGUIST List is funded by Eastern Michigan University,
and donations from subscribers and publishers.
Editor for this issue: Ann Sawyer <sawyer(a)linguistlist.org>
To post to LINGUIST, use our convenient web form at
From: Hannah Morales < hannah(a)linguistlist.org >
Subject: Wikipedia Volunteers
-------------------------Message 1 ----------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:49:35
From: Hannah Morales < hannah(a)linguistlist.org >
Subject: Wikipedia Volunteers
As you may recall, one of our Fund Drive 2007 campaigns was called the
"Wikipedia Update Vote." We asked our viewers to consider earmarking their
donations to organize an update project on linguistics entries in the
English-language Wikipedia. You can find more background information on this
The speed with which we met our goal, thanks to the interest and generosity
our readers, was a sure sign that the linguistics community was enthusiastic
about the idea. Now that summer is upon us, and some of you may have a bit
leisure time, we are hoping that you will be able to help us get started on
Wikipedia project. The LINGUIST List's role in this project is a purely
organizational one. We will:
*Help, with your input, to identify major gaps in the Wikipedia materials or
pages that need improvement;
*Compile a list of linguistics pages that Wikipedia editors have identified
"in need of attention from an expert on the subject" or " does not cite any
references or sources," etc;
*Send out periodical calls for volunteer contributors on specific topics or
*Provide simple instructions on how to upload your entries into Wikipedia;
*Keep track of our project Wikipedians;
*Keep track of revisions and new entries;
*Work with Wikimedia Foundation to publicize the linguistics community's
We hope you are as enthusiastic about this effort as we are. Just to help us
get started looking at Wikipedia more critically, and to easily identify an
needing improvement, we suggest that you take a look at the List of
Many people are not listed there; others need to have more facts and
added. If you would like to participate in this exciting update effort,
respond by sending an email to LINGUIST Editor Hannah Morales at
hannah(a)linguistlist.org, suggesting what your role might be or which
entries you feel should be updated or added. Some linguists who saw our
on the Internet have already written us with specific suggestions, which we
share with you soon.
This update project will take major time and effort on all our parts. The
result will be a much richer internet resource of information on the breadth
depth of the field of linguistics. Our efforts should also stimulate
students to consider studying linguistics and to educate a wider public on
we do. Please consider participating.
Editor, Wikipedia Update Project
Linguistic Field(s): Not Applicable
LINGUIST List: Vol-18-1831
>>> The people who are loudest in their demands for consensus
>>> do not represent the Wikimedia movement.
>> The voices loudest for the WMF doing something against the
>> Trump administration are not representative of the Wikimedia
>> movement either....
> Is the Community Process Steering Committee currently
> prepared to "engage more 'quiet' members of our community"
> with a statistically robust snap survey to resolve this question?
Anyone can go to Recent Changes and send a SurveyMonkey link to the
most recent few hundred editors with contributions at least a year
old, to get an accurate answer.
Will a respected member of the community please do this? I would like
to know what the actual editing community thinks of the travel ban and
their idea of an appropriate response. I don't want to see community
governance by opt-in participation in obscure RFCs.
I would offer to do this myself, but I value keeping my real name
unassociated with my enwiki userid.
This is a request for your input and possible ideas (if any) regarding my management of the fallout from Jimmy's announcing myself as a 2018 Wikimedian of the Year.
Emails below are a copy of my ongoing consultations with Wikimedia Foundation staff and other Wikimedians I personally know, as well as a report on what's already brewing in my region of Russia after this unexpected outcome.
I would be grateful, if you can advise me on how to properly steer the enthusiasm of behalf of regional government, mass-media, NGOs, etc. which have just discovered about the possibility of participation in Wikimedia movement (think anything from U.S. is not getting much in-depth coverage in Russian by sources that regional public figures, NGOs, teachers or general regional journalists read) & are now placing great hopes on teaching whole of Tatarstan about how to Wiki & also engaging all Tatars globally (3/4 outside of Tatarstan, 1/5 outside of Russia).
* Selet WikiSchool got presented to wider public @ the press-conference for Tatar-speaking journalists (July 31), at the poster session in the framework of the World Congress of Tatars Youth Forum (Aug.3), and later at a Tatar projects fair in the Downtown park of Kazan (Aug.5)
* Contribution of those writing into Wikipedia in Tatar was recognized by choosing myself as one of the current year's "For the great service to Tatar nation" medal recipients. (Aug.3)
* We recorded a 40 min interview in Turkish (Aug.4, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3tFBWMWcs )
* We didn't yet meet the President of the Republic (his schedule changed once again), but I got another firm request to meet with the Minister for Youth Affairs (another good acquaintance of mine, ex-member of local Comedy Club type activity), as well as with the Head of World Congress of Tatars' Executive Bureau, and more TV & written press interviews are lining up.
* I am trying to manage these guys' optimism & desire to move quickly, keeping in mind they are not really familiar with the Wiki-way or our communities' policies & practices
* Bashkir (ba) & Sakha (sah) communities have shared advice about how to assure that local Wikimedia community stays clearly independent in a cultural environment where neither Education, nor GLAM programs will attract local partners unless those have a strong support of the regional or federal government entities.
* Looking forward to meet with my Wikimania-2017 roommate from the Philippines in Singapore on Aug.16 to collect some more input from Asia
-------- Пересылаемое сообщение--------
03.08.2018, 19:35, "Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin" <frhd(a)yandex.com>:
Thursday, 2 August 2018
Republic of Tatarstan Ministry for Informatization & Communication @ IT-park, Kazan
Meeting with Tatarstan Deputy Prime Minister - Minister for Informatization & Communications Roman Shaykhutdinov
on opportunities Wikimedia projects & popularization thereof among the population of the Republic can bring for Tatarstan
* Almaz A. Valiullin, Director General of Tatarstan Center for Information Technologies http://mic.tatarstan.ru/eng/valiullin.htm
* Tatyana S. Kamaletdinova, CEO of Tatarstan Center for Information Technologies http://mic.tatarstan.ru/eng/kamaletdinova.htm
* Anna V. Yakovleva, Head of Ministry's Press-Service http://mic.tatarstan.ru/rus/about/structure_new?department_id=80576
* Farkhad N. Fatkullin, 2018 Wikimedian of the Year, Wikimedia Russia member https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Frhdkazan
1. Content creation contests
2. Education projects
3. How can these be organized in a systemic way, engaging students throughout all municipal districts of Tatarstan & Tatar diaspora globally, and assessing effectiveness of measures
4. Larger Tatar language internet development, promoting content creation in the language
5. .tatar domain
7. Generating lists for content creation
8. Free licenses
10. Regional educational Wiki-seminar for beginners, introduction & orientation
11. Smartphone oriented educational projects around Tatar & Tatar Wikipedia (beginning with Tatar version of www.kakprav.com & on to WOK Master type )
12. OSM in Tatar
13. The way forward: visiting WMF to discover other opportunities, MoU with WMF?
1. Almaz Valiullin to head the Working Group on behalf of the Ministry
2. Next meeting set for / around 20th of August
3. Minister requested his staff to draft documents regarding moving all Regional & Municipal budget funded websites to CC-BY type free licenses
4. Minister proposed every organization website place a link to a Wikipedia article about it (in Tatar, Russian or English, depending on the language used)
5. Help is requested about developing simple samples or article creation guidelines for various institutions of Tatarstan & diaspora organizations to learn what is considered appropriate by Wiki-community & how should representatives of respective entities
6. Annual Tatar Internet Awards Ceremony to include awards to leading editors of Wikimedia projects in Tatar
7. Help is requested to develop a framework of Wikipedia Article Contests for Secondary School Children of Tatastan, with article quality assessment schemes (prizes & organization to be funded by Tatarstan goverment, promotion in local mass-media, schools & etc.)
8. Help is requested to develop a framework for a sustainable functioning of a Tatarstan & Tatar language oriented Wikimedia thematic organization to be responsible for systemic work around developing & promoting Wikimedia projects in Tatar, as well as Tatarstan-oriented content creation for various Wikis
9. Readiness to consider awarding *.tatar domain names to those, who develop attractive projects in Tatar that can't be hosted on Wikimedia platform or otherwise need a Tatar digital identity
10. Help is requested regarding drafting a program proposal, necessary budget & expected results for a Tatarstan oriented introductory Wiki-seminar, open for a wide public
11. Help is requested to provide links to Wikidata educational materials, Practical Use Cases & expert responses to the Deputy Minister (in English)
12. Help is requested in organizing a learning visit to WMF Headquarters during Tatarstan Delegation annual fall visit to Silicon Valley & other places in U.S. to discover other opportunities
Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
03.08.2018, 11:42, "Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin" <frhd(a)yandex.com>:
> Hi Nochole & Kui,
> Thank you for your responses & readiness to help.
> Events on the ground are developing following predictable course - we had a very constructive 3 hour long discussion last night with Tatarstan's Deputy Prime Minister (IT minister) & his team, whilst earlier Thursday I got an invite to meet with another Deputy Prime Minister (President of the National Council of Trustees for the World Congress of Tatars Association).
> More TV & magazine interviews are expected, some in detail articles in Russian promoting Wikimedia projects are in the pipelines (expecting to see the texts for necessary corrections & adding links to respective WMRU, Meta, WMF & related independent media articles (thanks to ComCom).
> I hope to find time to prepare & email both you (in English) & IT ministry's Working Group (in Russian) my summary of yesterday late evening meeting, with attendees, topics discussed, request & proposals, etc. They want to move as fast as possible, because this will help them to meet promoting Tatar language use online task they are charged with by the region's President.
> Just a few to begin with:
> * Ready to move all regional and municipal government websites into CC-BY, add links to respective WP articles from all these
> * Willing to have Tatarstan & Tatar language oriented thematic organization in place to work with secondary schools & Universities, GLAMS, diaspora
> * Ready to sponsor prizes for article writing contests (either through WMRU or this new entity)
> * Requesting guidance from myself & Wikimedia community on what's the best way to make this all successful
> * Interested in supporting WMRU organized general public educational Wiki-Seminar in Tatarstan Academy of Sciences or other respected facility with a large conference hall open to all public (September-October?)
> * Willing to visit WMF headquarters in November to meet, learn more about what's there (I admit I don't read all mailing lists or Meta discussions, don't have time to see all wonderful YouTube videos available, haven't yet have time to visit a single Wikimedia Conference) & possibly sign MoUs or whatever that would help speed up Wikimedia acceptance & popularity growth among the population of the region.
> I am in touch with Wikimedia RU & Wikimedia Languages of Russia Community's regarding ongoing developments, benefiting from collective wisdom of Wikimedians I know.
> Should you be ready to bring any ideas to the table, please shoot them my way.
> Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
> 02.08.2018, 16:35, "Nichole Saad" <nsaad(a)wikimedia.org>:
>> Hi Farhad,
>> First, congratulations on being named "Wikimedian of the Year!" We have received your letter, and are looking forward to engage with your ideas. Realistically, I'll be able to provide a more in depth response early next week.
>> best regards,
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 2:45 PM Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <frhd(a)yandex.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Sirs,
>>> This is from Farhad, User:frhdkazan (ComCom member, now a.k.a. 2018 Wikimedian of the Year) with some proposals about how to leverage a fleeting opportunity I got. Please read the text below this letter ASAP & think how you can help seize the moment. I'm looking forward to first ideas within 24 hours from now.
>>> Any support of yours would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Thanks a million.
>>> P.S. More on where I'm coming from can later be discovered @ http://frhd.narod.ru/resume-en.htm (dated, stopped my retainer contract with the Office of Tatarstan President in September 2013) & more up-to-date but in Russian @ http://sikzn.narod.ru/index/0-4 . I have previously translated & provided digital media with the link to Russian text of Wikimedia Blog post about Jess Wade https://ru.wikinews.org/wiki/?curid=176108 , & now contacted Asian colleagues to get similar content about Nahid Sultan & Wikimedia Bangladesh. Also on my agenda is to record a video-interview in Turkish for Wikimedia Turkey's communication campaign - I speak the language & we are in touch with Turkish community. I also need to get back to interpreting into Russian videos of Wikimania-2018 available on YouTube - maybe later this week, before I join my family for a few days off & then a week-long interpretation assignment in Singapore.
>>> Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
>>> Following Jimmy's unexpected pass during Wikimania-2018 Closing Ceremony, I became an instant celebrity of sort - myself alone I've seen over 40 articles with positive PR about Wikipedia & wider body of Wikimedia projects,
>>> * one by RT in Russian collecting over 1.1 million Facebook likes in under 8 hours from publication
>>> * short positive ones from Russian Federation government's Official gazette & Russkiy Mir Foundation
>>> * first ever mention that people can donate to Wikimedia Russia volunteers organization for us to be able to fund local Wiki-seminars, conferences & contests (WMF is not funding Wikimedia Russia & can't allow us to use donate link from Russian Wikipedia or place a link to "Thank you, but we don't accept donations from Russia" page where users from Russia are being routed
>>> * about to get one with links published to various WMF & Wikimedia Russia projects, including promoting free licenses, Education & GLAM programs, etc.
>>> I'm periodically collecting these @ https://tt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Безнең_турында_матбугатта#Ел_викиме… when time permits, but there's more in my Facebook Messenger.
>>> This is also generating very positive attention on behalf of the Republic of Tatarstan government, as well as our regional NGO partner, Selet Youth Education Foundation, with whom yet unrecognized Tatar Wikimedians are jointly running Selet WikiSchool project. https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/May_2018/Selet_WikiSchool The latter want to introduce this joint initiative, as well as Wikimedia Russia executive director Stanislav Kozlovsky (Ph.D. in Psychology, Researcher & a Senior lecturer at Moscow State University) and myself to the President of Tatarstan during his visit to their Annual International Forum of Tatar-speaking High-School Age Youth on August 6th. Unrelated to that I was yesterday called up by a good acquaintance of mine (Tatarstan Vice Prime-Minister, Minister for IT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shaykhutdinov ), who invited me to have a talk with him tomorrow about how promoting Wikimedia projects in wider Tatar-speaking world (only about 25% of Tatars live in Tatarstan) can help him get whatever current President wants him to do to develop Tatar language use online. There are some other Tatarstan Prime-Minister Office level things in the pipeline, & I am also waiting for a call from Russian Federation ex-IT Minister https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Nikiforov , whom I know from his years in Tatarstan government as well (until 2012). FYI: Wikimedia movement is still unknown in Russia, with local mass media outlets are predominantly speaking about Wikipedia in Russian when there is some lapse that can be exploited to show one's Russian patriotism & thus score some points (basically same political circus, as what we are seeing in U.S. with Russia-collusion story in the overdrive, just opposite direction), and here we get something to reverse the situation big time, explaining to the wide public that it's not only Ok, but even desirable they engage with Wikimedia projects.
>>> Keeping in mind that Tatarstan President is the head of both Russia-Islamic World Strategic Vision Group & Association of Innovative Regions of Russia, Jimmy gave me a-hell-of-an-opportunity for an elevator pitch for Wikimedia movement in Russia and some adjacent counties (think Turkey & Central Asia), and I would really hate seeing it go unused. I will do my part here (about CC-BY for regional government controlled websites, Wikipedia Education Program as an extracurricular activity in all secondary school & universities, GLAM, as well as some locally funded carrots for participants), but I also want your help in driving this to a home-run. Every fall Tatarstan President & the delegation is visiting Silicon Valley & other places of interest in U.S. & it would be great if we could set-up a physical visit to Wikimedia Foundation, with a first hand presentation of best international practices the movement if proud of & have some MoU on cooperation signed (as a bureaucratic basis for continuing the conversation) with either some department in Tatarstan government, just like the one you signed with the Mexican Ministry of Culture www.eluniversal.com.mx/cultura/secretaria-de-cultura-y-wikimedia-firman-con…. To set the context, Tatarstan has such formal documents with a number of American companies & institutions, with our private English-speaking IT Univesity @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innopolis having been developed jointly with Carnegie Mellon University (with consultancy fees paid by Tatastan), we have Russia's first publicly funded hospital certified to be meeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Commission requirements & plenty of U.S. investors @ our https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabuga_Special_Economic_Zone . On top of this, we could benefit from having Selet Youth Educational movement http://selet.biz/en/ to embrace Wiki even further, so maybe a similar MoU on collaboration between them and Wikiedu.org signed simultaneously would be great (I met LiAnna and Jami in Montreal last year & was really impressed with what these guys are doing).
>>> Please shoot something my way before the same time tomorrow, for me to handle the meeting with Tatarstan Deputy Prime Minister more effectively to progressively open other opportunities I've touched on. On top of what I described above & my last year's ideas @ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Frhdkazan/Wiki4RegionalDevt (in Russian), I'll be bringing to the table topics of:
>>> * Wikidata
>>> * OSM, as well as a
>>> * WOK-like project for all things in Tatar (I was contacted by a local 9th grader who, on his own initiative with a help of a teacher, did something similar for students who want to train for Russian-language SAT/ACT type exam www.kakprav.com & now offered to develop such or bigger thing for Tatar). For more on WOK, see https://www.vanguardngr.com/2018/01/wikipedia-wok-seek-nigerian-content-onl…
>>> * whatever else you or anybody else can help me think of until then & or later opportunities
>> Nichole Saad
>> Wikimedia Foundation | Senior Program Manager, Education
>> user: NSaad (WMF)
-------- Конец пересылаемого сообщения --------
Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
I was asked by a volunteer for help getting stats on the gender gap in
content on a certain Wikipedia, and came up with simple Wikidata Query
Service queries that pulled the total number of articles on a given
Wikipedia about men and about women, to calculate *the proportion of
articles about women out of all articles about humans*.
Then I was curious about how that wiki compared to other wikis, so I ran
the queries on a bunch of languages, and gathered the results into a table,
(please see the *caveat* there.)
I don't have time to fully write-up everything I find interesting in those
results, but I will quickly point out the following:
1. The Nepali statistic is simply astonishing! There must be a story
there. I'm keen on learning more about this, if anyone can shed light.
2. Evidently, ~13%-17% seems like a robust average of the proportion of
articles about women among all biographies.
3. among the top 10 largest wikis, Japanese is the least imbalanced. Good
job, Japanese Wikipedians! I wonder if you have a good sense of what
drives this relatively better balance. (my instinctive guess is pop culture
4. among the top 10 largest wikis, Russian is the most imbalanced.
5. I intend to re-generate these stats every two months or so, to
eventually have some sense of trends and changes.
6. Your efforts, particularly on small-to-medium wikis, can really make a
dent in these numbers! For example, it seems I am personally
responsible for almost 1% of the coverage of women on Hebrew Wikipedia!
7. I encourage you to share these numbers with your communities. Perhaps
you'd like to overtake the wiki just above yours? :)
8. I'm happy to add additional languages to the table, by request. Or you
can do it yourself, too. :)
 Yay #100wikidays :) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/100wikidays
Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
As I mentioned in an earlier thread , we will be running reader
surveys across a number of Wikipedia languages to learn about the
reader needs and motivations in these languages as well as some of
their demographic information (and perhaps the correlations between
demographics and user motivations and characteristics).
If your language community is interested to have statistics on the
distribution of reader gender, age, education, native language, and
geographic region (rural/urban) in your language (and depending on how
much data we collect in your language, perhaps more insights), this is
your chance to indicate interest at:
I initially communicated 2019-02-15 as the deadline to sign up. Since
then, we have run a pilot test on enwiki and we are investigating some
of the results to see if any changes in the survey questions are
needed. You have now time until 2019-03-15 to indicate interest.
As always: this call is primarily a service to your language
community. If you like it, take action on it. If you don't, no action
is needed. :)
Splitting off the Wikinews discussion from the branding discussion...
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 at 07:52, Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> Compared to Wikitribune it is! But more importantly, if Wikinews is not
> thriving, then why not? Does it lack resources? What could or should the
> WMF do to revive it?
In my opinion, nothing. Wikinews was a nice idea, but it didn't work out,
and I don't think the Wikimedia Foundation investing resources into trying
to bring it back to life is really worth it. In fact, I think the Wikimedia
Foundation isn't the right group to try to breathe new life into the
project anyway—we, as a volunteer community, could invest our time in
bringing new content into it. That doesn't happen though. Why is that? For
me, I'm voting with my actions rather than my words—it's because it just
isn't important enough compared to other things. It's okay to think that.
Also, I'd prefer to see the Wikimedia Foundation trying to do fewer things
but do them better rather than taking more on; I think the annual plan
reflects that it is trying to do so.
> Perhaps some of the money spent on rebranding would
> be better spent on the projects that are not doing so well as the big
> Wikipedias -- or perhaps the WMF should cut its losses and close them down,
> on the principle of reinforcing success instead.
I suspect that significantly less money is being spent on this rebranding
effort than people might think. A short engagement with an external
consultant, and some staff time to think about it and publish some pages to
solicit comment, is a relatively small investment compared to what it might
take to bootstrap improvements to breathe life into a mostly dead project.
I don't think it's really helpful to guess about the cost of things... yes,
I broke my own rule right at the start of this paragraph. ;-)
Sorry in advance for cross-posting. As many of you are aware, last April
5th the Education team at the Wikimedia Foundation announced the launch of
the Wikimedia & Education Greenhouse (w.wiki/385). The W&E Greenhouse is a
fully immersive co-learning experience that lasts 9 months and is designed
for emerging education leaders in our movement who believe in the value of
Wikimedia projects in education. It will equip participants with the
skills, knowledge, and support to bring their ideas to life and scale them
into high-impact education initiatives in their community.
The W&E Greenhouse has two modalities of participation: as a team (
w.wiki/3A$) and as an individual(w.wiki/3NY). Applying as a team means that
you present an idea for an education project you want to develop in your
local community. One team will be selected to receive seed funding for
their project, on-site mentoring from WMF staff, and access to a free
project management online course. Applying as an individual means
completing a short form expressing your interest and motivation, and this
will give you access to the free online course.
So far we have received 1 team application and over 60 individual
applications from all over the world. Additionally, we have a great team of
experienced Wikimedia education leaders collaborating in the development of
this initiative. There are still two weeks left to apply (deadline is May
12) and we are very excited to keep reading about the amazing education
projects you want to develop! We have prepared some additional resources to
support applications during these final weeks and we have compiled them
into this slideshow (w.wiki/3NZ), including a short video guide for team
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact Melissa
Guadalupe Huertas via email: mguadalupe(a)wikimedia.org. We appreciate you
sharing this among your networks and we look forward to reading more
*Melissa Guadalupe Huertas*
Wikimedia Foundation | Education Program Officer
user: MGuadalupe (WMF)
Check out our newsletter: This Month in Education
This thread is the consequence of my thinking over Jennifer's concerns  to what I've seen as a routine progress report on Wikimedia Education Program Russia, which she later kindly deciphered to me off the list (see below for original).
We periodically see signs of various individuals or interest groups using Wikipedia to their advantage on a limited scale, so Jennifer is rightly pondering on how should Wikimedians develop relationships with strong partners theoretically capable of abusing our supposedly neutral projects: governments, businesses, NGOs, various religious & ideological groups, etc.
Wikimedia communities want to welcome new active users in large numbers, so we are to follow the principle of good intentions, trust them and help them to learn how to operate onwiki. At the same time, can we feel comfortable that we can prevent the loss of control over what's going on in our projects or being fully overtaken by some outside party interested to push its own agenda using Wikimedia platforms?
I believe we have all means for this. I am also confident that to advance towards the world of Wikimedia movement vision  & Wikipedia purpose, we need to make sure that every human being feels welcome on our projects & interested in their sustainable growth.
Before we start similar 360 degree stakeholder engagement initiatives within 6 official UN languages, those of G20 and maybe even any primary language of a sovereign UN member, my guess is we might want to test such initiatives in a less tense setting, working closely with government & publicly-funded institutions, private sector, non-profits or individuals in an environment with less interference from political, ideological or commercial interests. Best candidates are probably mid-sized projects in the language of some non-sovereign ethnic nation that represent little to no interest for whatever outside organized party to gain control of.
In the Russian Federation, we are currently in the process of such an experiment around Wikipedia & other Wikimedia projects in Tatar, which I happen to speak by birth within this language community. When starting on this path in the fall of 2018, I was comforted to learn about "Kumusha takes Wiki" initiative, that was implemented in 2013-2014 in French-speaking Cote d'Ivoire and English-speaking Uganda with the support of by Orange Foundation & presented during WikiIndaba 2014.
As a member of Wikimedia Russia, I am documenting our steps in WMRU-wiki both in the regional  as well as in the linguistic development aspects,  periodically sharing progress reports with the wider public via [wikimedia-ru] list, Wikimedia Community Languages of Russia on Facebook  & Russian Wikinews, for my colleagues from other regions of Russia with strong regional languages & other members of the community to be able to apply whatever we learn, if they find it appropriate for their socio-economic environments.
The working hypothesis is that giving all speakers of Tatar or whatever other language the feeling of collective ownership of respective language Wikimedia projects should be a safe way forward. Our progress reports are almost exclusively in Russian, which is the best medium of communication in my case: I am currently working on this almost alone, whilst local stakeholders reasonably expecting to see some track-record, proofs and other explanatory materials before getting onboard at every step of the way. Tatar is not dominant language even within the region with high concentration of Tatar speakers, whilst the share of English speakers in Russia is @ 5%, even less in case of Tatarstan.
Tatar is a language spoken mainly by an eponymous defacto stateless ethnic group of over 5 million people living predominantly inside the Russian Federation (second in number after ethnic Russians). It has a second official language status within the Republic of Tatarstan (a region-subject of the Russian state since 1552, home to about 1/3 of Tatars, amounting here to slightly over 50%), where Russian is clearly dominant in politics, economics, education, social life, etc. even among Tatars themselves. With its current 85000 articles & under 100 active participants a month Tatar Wikipedia seems a good fit - it's in Top-10 websites in respective language (including groups in Facebook & VK social networks) thanks to being part of Wikimedia constellation.
We seem to be in ideal circumstances to pilot this with least consequences for Wikimedia movement, as WMF is neither fundraising in Russia (no grant money this way), nor allowing local affiliates to place fundraising banners/links in respective language Wikipedias & other Wikimedia projects over the geographic territory of Russia. At the same time, we received a blessing of a respected Senior elder, retired Ex-President of Tatarstan, having the title of UNESCO Special Envoy for Intercultural Dialogue, whilst Wikimedians from other projects in the languages of Russia called on Tatar community to make it successful to scale it throughout the country.
Going forward, I would suspect Tatarstan goverment that shows its interest to make Wikimedia Education Program part of Tatar language curriculum might eventually want to sign an MOU or a similar document with the Wikimedia Foundation and/or local affiliates (just like Mexican ministry of Culture, Government of the Indian State of Maharashtra, Italian Ministry of Education or Nigerian Tourism Development Board, to mention just a few cases I have personally read about). We don't see this happening in the English-speaking part of Wikimedia world, probably for cultural reasons, but everywhere else it seems to be a natural step in formalizing partnerships relations. All Tatars are at least bilingual and bi-cultural, so tolerance levels for differing points of view are generally quite high edit wars around ethnic, civil & other identity related topics rare.
P.S. Jennifer, Republic of Tatarstan was never an independent state & 2008 independence you mention is likely to be confusion with the Republic of Abkhazia or the Republic of Southern Osetia that gained their independence from the Republic of Georgia. Landlocked inside Russia, Tatarstan claimed its limited sovereignty at the collapse of Soviet Union (as it was unable to become the 16th Republic of USSR due to the dissolution thereof), at the same time showing it's intent to clearly stay associated with the nascent Russian Federation. Respective association documents were signed in 1994, some 14 years before the event you mention. We have Russian passports, serving in the Russian military, our athletes competing for the national teams. First President of Tatarstan Mintimer Shaimiev & First President of the Russian Federation Boris Yeltsin were friends & colleagues since Soviet Union times, growing through the ranks in parallel, having shared many meals together over the decades in power.
Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
23.04.2019, 21:33, "Jennifer Pryor-Summers" <jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com>:
> When a government adds contributing to Wikipedia to its national curriculum, especially if it involves spending public time and money, it is likely to expect that both the pre-existing material and the additional controbutions to reflect the requirements of that national curriculum, which in turn are likely to reflect the national values and spcific positions. For example, Tatastan has claimed independence from Russia as recently as 2008. Can we be sure that the Tatar-language and Russian-language Wikipedia entries will be independent of any official position on this and other sensitive questions of national importance?
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 8:02 AM Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin <frhd(a)yandex.com> wrote:
>> Dear Jennifer,
>> I feel you have put more thought into your question than I can grasp right away.
>> Please give me more context and some examples to help me understand whatever might be of possible concern in this piece of Wikimedia Education Program Russia related progress news.
>> I would prefer to respond in full without causing back & forth ping-pong.
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Sent from Yandex.Mail for mobile
>> 20:15, April 22, 2019, "Jennifer Pryor-Summers" <jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com>:
>>> I assume that under this arrangement, the editorial independence of the
>>> contributors and content will remain inviolable?
>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 5:22 PM Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin <
>>> frhd(a)yandex.com> wrote:
>>>> Regional department of education (elementary & secondary education) &
>>>> Kazan Federal University today received instructions signed by the
>>>> President of Tatarstan on integrating Wikimedia Education Program
>>>> opportunities into the curricula of educational establishments of the
>>>> Republic. I was asked for some guidance on the topic before tonight, so
>>>> prepared what I could in Russian
>>>> We are in the country with a centralized education system culture, so
>>>> project owner will be the ministry, with Wikimedians serving as
>>>> stakeholders, consultants & guides.
>>>> On March 1st we fielded 2 speakers for EDU RUSSIA 2019 conference
>>>> On April 11-12 our Bashkir colleagues (WUG BAK) were invited to speak @
>>>> their regional teachers' conference (photoes & report in Russian -
>>>> https://ru.wikinews.org/wiki/?curid=221169 ) & their regional deputy
>>>> minister recalled our speakers in Kazan
>>>> Right now our judges are checking some 200 pre-qualified ttWP articles
>>>> created by 67 previously untrained school teams in the framework of Tatar
>>>> 4.0 contest. Prizes provided by local partner, introduction to the contest
>>>> video, Messenger support, participant & article tagging, prequalification &
>>>> assessing on volunteering time. 10 best teams to be publicly awarded at
>>>> Ğabdulla Tuqay memorial event downtown Kazan on April 26.
>>>> Contest in Tatar - https://tt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Проект:Татар_4.0
>>>> Lessons learnt in Russian -
>>>> This all follows our February presentation
>>>> Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
>>>> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
>>>> 08.02.2019, 22:23, "Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin" <frhd(a)yandex.com
>>>> > Some news:
>>>> > I managed to get vocal approval of the proposal to transfer
>>>> Wiki-competencies to Tatarstan public by Federal Deputy Prime-Minister
>>>> Maxim Akimov and had Regional President Rustam Minnikhanov express his
>>>> invitation to the subject-minister (Vice Prime-Minister of Tatarstan -
>>>> InfoComm minister Roman Shaykhutdinov) to prepare necessary proposals for
>>>> organizing the process in a successful scalable way. I will have to do more
>>>> thinking and writing now so as to try have this implemented first in my
>>>> Republic, then across Russia.
>>>> > I was given less than a minute during pre-Conference tour of the project
>>>> stands prepared by corporations and state enterprises (without slides or
>>>> any visual support), so I had to skim to the very facts and the value
>>>> proposition that would get their attention.
>>>> > On a more tangible side, https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Selet_WikiSchool
>>>> that I started back in 2016, will get support from the regional budget &
>>>> thus expand. Currently this is on the shoulders of a team consisting of
>>>> high-school senior, a University freshman and a sophomore/junior from one
>>>> rural school.
>>>> > regards,
>>>> > farhad
>>>> > --
>>>> > Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
>>>> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
>>>> > 17.01.2019, 18:35, "Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin" <
>>>> >> Dear colleagues,
>>>> >> You can track my preparation in English @
>>>> https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Умный_регион/05.02.2019/en (date move to
>>>> accommodate VIP participants' schedules).
>>>> >> I had to skim my original 18 minute text to under 7.
>>>> >> I intend to touch on most of what had to go via the Slides which will
>>>> accompany my talk.
>>>> >> Tatar components will be prepared last, as Russian and English are
>>>> best tools for getting feedback from across the Wiki-world.
>>>> >> regards,
>>>> >> farhad
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
>>>> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
>>>> >> 14.01.2019, 19:10, "Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin" <
>>>> >>> Dear colleagues,
>>>> >>> This is a heads-up on the fact that on Jan.29 I will be speaking in
>>>> Tatar (with simultaneous interpretation of my words into Russian) at the
>>>> Republic of Tatarstan Ministry for ICT closing conference for 2018 in front
>>>> of the President of the Republic, Russia's Federal minister for ICT,
>>>> members of Tatarstan government, industry & the press, possibly some
>>>> participants from nearby regional ministries.
>>>> >>> I will have some 7-10 min to present on
>>>> https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region , rough English translation
>>>> for the base page completed today.
>>>> >>> It will be a basic intro level talk accompanied by slides about
>>>> some things that can be appropriately mentioned without overburdening the
>>>> public hearing about Wiki-community activities for the first time in their
>>>> lives. I will email you draft text around the end of the week (once I am
>>>> comfortable with it), with some ideas on the slides I will play along my
>>>> speech and a list of recommended follow-on measures.
>>>> >>> Expected outcome: Presidential instruction to the Tatarstan
>>>> government to for a cross-departmental working group to study what ICT
>>>> ministry led Wikimedia working group (since August 2018) has came up with &
>>>> look into possible way of integrating this into Tatarstan social life (I
>>>> was offered to formulate it myself today).
>>>> >>> Other related Wikimedia Russia news:
>>>> >>> * On or around Feb.8, we are to have first follow-on introduction of
>>>> Wikipedia Education Program to wider professors & students' body of Kazan
>>>> Federal University Institute for International Relations, with director of
>>>> which we had a productive meeting on Dec.21, following the events described
>>>> >>> * On Feb.28-March 1 we are invited to field speakers for
>>>> http://eduforumkazan.ru/ (attended by Russia's Federal Minister for
>>>> Education and her team)
>>>> >>> regards,
>>>> >>> farhad
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
>>>> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
>>>> >>> 05.11.2018, 17:22, "Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin" <
>>>> >>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>> >>>> Below is my October activities report & description of upcoming
>>>> >>>> 1) On Oct.13-14 at
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CEE_Meeting_2018 we presented
>>>> some of the things we are doing in Russia (FYI: without any WMF grants).
>>>> See details at
>>>> >>>> 2) On Oct.20 I had a two hour long meeting with the Deputy head of
>>>> Tatarstan Presidential Adiministration responsible for internal policy
>>>> who officially invited me to engage Wikimedia Russia and other Wikimedia
>>>> movement volunteers to develop "Smart wiki-region" roadmap for regional
>>>> authorities throughout the Russian Federation to start learning about the
>>>> Wikimedia movement and understanding how partnering therewith could be of
>>>> mutual interests. This was a follow up of the Oct.1 meeting with Mintimer
>>>> but mainly around my last year's musings I finally finished translating
>>>> into English today @
>>>> >>>> 3) On Oct.23 We have started growing the project on WMRU-wiki at
>>>> https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Умный_регион (currently in Russian only),
>>>> using also eponymous thread at [wikimedia-ru] mailing list (last message
>>>> >>>> 4) In mid-November we are expecting to have a presentation of the
>>>> project and our domestic experience
>>>> https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Selet_WikiSchool at the large meeting
>>>> called on by the ex-President of Tatarstan, State Councillor to the
>>>> Republic, UNESCO Special envoy for Intercultural Dialogue Mintimer Shaimiev
>>>> http://shaimiev.tatarstan.ru/eng - with invitation of
>>>> >>>> * First Deputy Head of the Tatarstan Presidential Administration (
>>>> >>>> * a large body of regional ministers
>>>> >>>> ** Tatar community affairs
>>>> >>>> ** Education and science
>>>> >>>> ** ICT http://mic.tatarstan.ru/eng/minister.htm
>>>> >>>> ** Culture http://mincult.tatarstan.ru/eng/rukov/minister.htm
>>>> >>>> ** Youth affairs
>>>> >>>> * head of regional media holding
>>>> >>>> * head of the Institute of Tatar encyclopedia
>>>> >>>> * head of the House of Friendship of Nations of Tatarstan
>>>> >>>> 5) Tomorrow morning I will be meeting with the Vice-Primier -
>>>> Minister for the ICT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shaykhutdinov
>>>> for preliminary discussions, then my high-school senior Timerkhan
>>>> https://tt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кулланучы:Тимерхан will assist him the next
>>>> day at the preparatory meeting with
>>>> >>>> 6) I didn't yet have time to think in detail about the potential
>>>> schedule or invited participants of the first public Wiki-seminar in
>>>> Tatarstan, meant to expose locals to the Wikimedia movement and its best
>>>> practices even if only via the video-conference (which I mentioned in the
>>>> previous update), because I am doing this in between of my rather demanding
>>>> work and some limited family life. The topic will most likely surface among
>>>> other things tomorrow.
>>>> >>>> regards,
>>>> >>>> farhad
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Farkhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 /
>>>> skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan
>>>> >>>> 04.10.2018, 08:32, "Pine W" <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>:
>>>> >>>>> Hi Farhad,
>>>> >>>>> I'm very impressed with your successes so far.
>>>> >>>>> My main concern is how much of this you seem to be doing by
>>>> yourself. I
>>>> >>>>> hope that you have a group of people who are collaborating with
>>>> you so that
>>>> >>>>> you don't feel responsible for doing everything personally, and
>>>> that you
>>>> >>>>> aren't putting yourself into personal financial difficulty due
>>>> to the
>>>> >>>>> amount of time that you're spending on Wikimedia activities.
>>>> >>>>> Regarding which people would be good to invite to a conference,
>>>> I think
>>>> >>>>> that GLAM and educational organizations would be natural
>>>> partners so I
>>>> >>>>> suggest starting with them.
>>>> >>>>> WMF might be willing to provide you with some advice and/or
>>>> funding for
>>>> >>>>> GLAM or education related work if you request it, although the
>>>> wait times
>>>> >>>>> for WMF "Rapid Grants" funding seem to have become lengthy, so I
>>>> >>>>> that if you want funding from that program that you should
>>>> request it at
>>>> >>>>> least two full months in advance and not rely on receiving it in
>>>> time for
>>>> >>>>> any particular deadline.
>>>> >>>>> I'm glad to hear that you're participating in Wikimedia CEE and
>>>> I hope that
>>>> >>>>> the affiliates in that group can provide you with good advice.
>>>> >>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> >>>>> Pine
>>>> >>>>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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