Hi there.
You may have seen the new-look account creation form on English Wikipedia.[1] For now it is an English-only experiment, but my team is developing it and a new-look userlogin form for all languages. The design moves from horizontal rows to vertical form labels, and as a result all the English form labels drop the trailing colon. For example, the existing form uses 'yourpassword' => 'Password:', but the new form needs 'userlogin-yourpassword' => 'Password',
1. It feels odd to duplicate dozens of messages solely because of the dropped punctuation. The trailing ':' arises from using the message in a horizontal layout where English has the punctuation convention Password: ______ But this is a property of the form layout rather than the text. Has anyone considered separating the colon punctuation from messages? I checked and a few languages don't use the colon in their translations; I couldn't tell if some non-Roman language uses other punctuation like a dot or ->. There is a 'colon-separator' message but it includes a trailing space as well.
2. My first attempt at MessagesQqq documentation for these was only:
'userlogin-yourpassword' => "Same as yourpassword but no trailing colon",
Siebrand didn't like it :) . I can duplicate the existing explanation, but how should I note that it's the same text as another message except for the punctuation change? Several of the existing messages have {{Identical|Username}}, I could use that but it's really {{Identical but for punctuation}}.
3. What's the URL on translatewiki to see the MessagesQqq help in context with its templates expanded?
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CreateAccount , log out first.
Thanks so much for your help. Eat more fiber :o)
-- =S Page software engineer on Editor Engagement Experiments team
S Page, 14/02/2013 08:19:
- It feels odd to duplicate dozens of messages solely because of the
dropped punctuation. The trailing ':' arises from using the message in a horizontal layout where English has the punctuation convention Password: ______ But this is a property of the form layout rather than the text. Has anyone considered separating the colon punctuation from messages? I checked and a few languages don't use the colon in their translations; I couldn't tell if some non-Roman language uses other punctuation like a dot or ->. There is a 'colon-separator' message but it includes a trailing space as well.
It's not only about punctuation: the fact that it's the same word in all contexts in English doesn't mean that it will be the same in other languages. There are some that will vary wildly and you surely can't know beforehand. That said, we do add things like arrows via PHP to localise them automatically, but I don't know exactly when/if this is encouraged. A similar problem is in what cases the first letter of a string should be made lowercase or uppercase by the code itself rather than relying on translators, and so on. This, however, has consistency as an aim, not translation saving: for instance I believe the purpose of colon-separator (like pipe-separator) is to let wikis customise as they wish without breaking stuff, a feature used rather often.
- My first attempt at MessagesQqq documentation for these was only:
'userlogin-yourpassword' => "Same as yourpassword but no trailing colon",
Siebrand didn't like it :) . I can duplicate the existing explanation, but how should I note that it's the same text as another message except for the punctuation change? Several of the existing messages have {{Identical|Username}}, I could use that but it's really {{Identical but for punctuation}}.
You don't really have to worry about that; {{identical}} is a nice tag for translatewiki.net use, but translators have translation memory anyway. Your qqq is wrong because it doesn't describe what the message is and does but how it looks in English (which the translator knows already): useful docs are things like "button on the form X which does Y", "label next to the field X in form Y blabla" or shorter versions if you're lazy. :)
- What's the URL on translatewiki to see the MessagesQqq help in
context with its templates expanded?
Edit the /en message or visit <key>/qqq. https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Colon-separator/qqq Except for templates, /qqq mostly works on any wiki, although it could be nicer: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41578
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CreateAccount , log out first.
So the problem is that you now have
Password ____
instead of
Password: _______
? By the way I hope "Joining Wikipedia is free", "help me choose", "We can create an account for you!" are local customisations of the messages containing the strings right before them and not something part of the code...
Nemo
2013/2/14 S Page spage@wikimedia.org:
Hi there.
Hi S,
Thank you for the question, comments inline.
You may have seen the new-look account creation form on English Wikipedia.[1] For now it is an English-only experiment, but my team is developing it and a new-look userlogin form for all languages. The design moves from horizontal rows to vertical form labels, and as a result all the English form labels drop the trailing colon. For example, the existing form uses 'yourpassword' => 'Password:', but the new form needs 'userlogin-yourpassword' => 'Password',
- It feels odd to duplicate dozens of messages solely because of the
dropped punctuation.
Duplication of messages is not such a bad thing as it may seem at first thought. If there is a small difference between the messages, it's often OK to create another message. Translation memory at translatewiki.net helps translators to re-use the needed parts of the other message.
The trailing ':' arises from using the message in a horizontal layout where English has the punctuation convention Password: ______ But this is a property of the form layout rather than the text. Has anyone considered separating the colon punctuation from messages? I checked and a few languages don't use the colon in their translations; I couldn't tell if some non-Roman language uses other punctuation like a dot or ->. There is a 'colon-separator' message but it includes a trailing space as well.
The page https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/L10n explains the reason for including punctuation in the messages, under the heading "Symbols, colons, brackets, etc. are parts of messages". French needs a space before the colon, some languages don't use the colon at all or use a different character, etc. A simplistic rule of thumb: Don't assume that a colon that is used in English is used the same way in other languages, so don't include in source code.
- My first attempt at MessagesQqq documentation for these was only:
'userlogin-yourpassword' => "Same as yourpassword but no trailing colon",
Siebrand didn't like it :) . I can duplicate the existing explanation, but how should I note that it's the same text as another message except for the punctuation change? Several of the existing messages have {{Identical|Username}}, I could use that but it's really {{Identical but for punctuation}}.
To write good qqq documentation simply explain the message independently. qqq documentation should answer the following questions, although not necessarily all of them: * Where is it used? * Is it a label, a button, a menu item, an error message or something else? * Is it a verb, an adjective or a noun? * Which UI controls are present near this message - tables, progress bars, buttons, text areas, etc. * Which messages are used near it? (It's sometimes useful to make nearby messages similar in some way.)
In this case, you should mainly explain on which screen this message appears, and where does the label appear in relation to the input box. Including a screenshot will be helpful - simply upload it to Commons, add a [[File:]] link to the qqq string, and the translators will see it at translatewiki.net.
You may mention other similar messages in the documentation if you think that it may be useful; if you do, use the {{msg-mw}} template: {{msg-mw|yourpassword}}.
- What's the URL on translatewiki to see the MessagesQqq help in
context with its templates expanded?
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:yourpassword/qqq
Replace "yourpassword" with any message key from MediaWiki core or extension to see any other message's documentation.
Hope it helps.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
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