So here's what has to happen next:
* Someone at translatewiki.net should activate the code. (Calling Amir ...) * The community can start working on a Wikipedia project on Incubator at Wp/hyw. Remember: the rules at Incubator are less strict than the rules for a final approval. In most cases of living, natural languages, as long as there is a valid code, a project may remain on Incubator, even without a LangCom approval. So gather a community together and start working on something. Do we need to set up Armenian Wikipedia as a transwiki import SOURCE to Incubator so that articles can be brought over more easily? (MF-W?) * A "Request for new languages" is not necessary right away, and tends to bring out the worst in everyone's politics. Let the community work for a little while on Incubator before coming to Meta with a formal request.
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________________________________ From: Langcom langcom-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of langcom-request@lists.wikimedia.org langcom-request@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 10:19 AM To: langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 52, Issue 27
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Oliver Stegen) 2. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Amir E. Aharoni) 3. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Michael Everson) 4. Re: 2018 SIL approvals (was: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw") (Michael Everson) 5. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Michael Everson)
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 13:39:20 +0100 From: Oliver Stegen oliver_stegen@sil.org To: langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" Message-ID: fe2adfa1-bb2b-63d9-3a94-df602d709e6a@sil.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Congratulations, Michael and the entire Western Armenian community (or rather communities!). And thanks for all the effort you put into this!
Cheers, Oliver
On 30-Jan-18 23:22, Michael Everson wrote:
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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 14:56:13 +0200 From: "Amir E. Aharoni" amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" Message-ID: CACtNa8u3NAxtfTU+cPQpaPkR8Cvk2vT8LPY0rCJQogSktHHPgw@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
So... This raises several questions.
1. Should this language be added to translatewiki.net? This was requested some time ago: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftranslatew... support_for_Western_Armenian_(hym) . This means that it will be possible to translate MediaWiki into it.
2. I couldn't find a request for a Western Armenian Wikipedia, which is somewhat surprising :) . The closest thing I can find is https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikim... languages/Wikipedia_Homshetsma , which is not the same thing. In any case, whenever such a request is made, will it be eligible?
I am inclined to answer "yes" to both questions, but with a caveat. I know very little about the Armenian language. My support is based mainly on Michael's conclusions of the examination of the differences between Eastern and Western varieties. However, the documents linked from the first email in this thread mention the similarity of the situation with Montengrin, which the committee seems not to support.
If we reject Montenegrin, but support Western Armenian, we'll have to explain it.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wor... “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-01-31 14:39 GMT+02:00 Oliver Stegen oliver_stegen@sil.org:
Congratulations, Michael and the entire Western Armenian community (or rather communities!). And thanks for all the effort you put into this!
Cheers, Oliver
On 30-Jan-18 23:22, Michael Everson wrote:
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-01.sil.... _2017_Summary.pdf
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-01.sil.... ents_2017-023.pdf
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Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:04:18 +0000 From: Michael Everson everson@evertype.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" Message-ID: 4E46FAE6-3170-4239-8A41-8FD3821F181A@evertype.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 31 Jan 2018, at 12:39, Oliver Stegen oliver_stegen@sil.org wrote:
Congratulations, Michael and the entire Western Armenian community (or rather communities!). And thanks for all the effort you put into this!
It was quite a lot of effort, producing the proposal document.
Now let’s get this one going. What do they have to do now?
Michael
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Message: 4 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:03:20 +0000 From: Michael Everson everson@evertype.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Langcom] 2018 SIL approvals (was: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw") Message-ID: 3523D00A-EF1C-4F37-B39B-8D1645ADB541@evertype.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Gerard. 639-2 is a subset of 639-3
On 31 Jan 2018, at 09:57, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, Wait a sec; Montenegrin is to be recognised by the ISO 639-3. I do not care for what ISO 639-2 has to say. Thanks, GerardM
On 31 January 2018 at 10:47, Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com wrote: In fact, the entire 2017 SIL approval/rejection results are available here. (Montenegrin does not appear here, as that was a separate process through ISO 639-2.)
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Message: 5 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:18:52 +0000 From: Michael Everson everson@evertype.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" Message-ID: 7A799968-3FE4-4B06-B5C7-C1878C3DB8B6@evertype.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 31 Jan 2018, at 12:56, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
So... This raises several questions.
Really?
- Should this language be added to translatewiki.net? This was requested some time ago: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftranslatew...) . This means that it will be possible to translate MediaWiki into it.
Yes, certainly it should.
- I couldn't find a request for a Western Armenian Wikipedia, which is somewhat surprising :) . The closest thing I can find is https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikim... , which is not the same thing. In any case, whenever such a request is made, will it be eligible?
It will be eligible. There are some articles in the current Armenian Wikipedia that are marked as written in Western Armenian, and I would be expecting them to be migrated.
Homshetsi is evidently a dialect of Western Armenian with fewer than 1000 speakers. I do not know anything more about it. It has no ISO code.
I am inclined to answer "yes" to both questions, but with a caveat. I know very little about the Armenian language. My support is based mainly on Michael's conclusions of the examination of the differences between Eastern and Western varieties.
We showed lists and paradigms showing the linguistic differences.
However, the documents linked from the first email in this thread mention the similarity of the situation with Montengrin, which the committee seems not to support.
I don’t support it because it does not appear that Montenegrin differs from Serbian in any significant way.
If we reject Montenegrin, but support Western Armenian, we'll have to explain it.
Absolutely we do not have to do this. There is no dependency between them. None. And Western Armenian is HUGELY different from Eastern Armenian. Please study the attached which was part of our proposal for the language code.
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End of Langcom Digest, Vol 52, Issue 27 ***************************************
I am cc’ing two of our Armenian Wikimedia colleagues here.
Michael
On 31 Jan 2018, at 15:56, Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com wrote:
So here's what has to happen next:
• Someone at translatewiki.net should activate the code. (Calling Amir ...) • The community can start working on a Wikipedia project on Incubator at Wp/hyw. Remember: the rules at Incubator are less strict than the rules for a final approval. In most cases of living, natural languages, as long as there is a valid code, a project may remain on Incubator, even without a LangCom approval. So gather a community together and start working on something. Do we need to set up Armenian Wikipedia as a transwiki import SOURCE to Incubator so that articles can be brought over more easily? (MF-W?) • A "Request for new languages" is not necessary right away, and tends to bring out the worst in everyone's politics. Let the community work for a little while on Incubator before coming to Meta with a formal request.
2018-01-31 16:56 GMT+01:00 Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com:
Do we need to set up Armenian Wikipedia as a transwiki import SOURCE to Incubator so that articles can be brought over more easily? (MF-W?)
It's not necessary because XML import is also possible and its correct
handling ensured by the competent Incubator admins. :p However I don't know if Western Armenian articles exist on Armenian Wikipedia at all.
They do. At least hundreds of articles.
A.
On Jan 31, 2018 18:35, "MF-Warburg" mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
2018-01-31 16:56 GMT+01:00 Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com:
Do we need to set up Armenian Wikipedia as a transwiki import SOURCE to Incubator so that articles can be brought over more easily? (MF-W?)
It's not necessary because XML import is also possible and its correct
handling ensured by the competent Incubator admins. :p However I don't know if Western Armenian articles exist on Armenian Wikipedia at all.
Langcom mailing list Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
2018-01-31 17:56 GMT+02:00 Steven White Koala19890@hotmail.com:
So here's what has to happen next:
- Someone at translatewiki.net should activate the code. (Calling Amir
...)
Here you go: https://github.com/wikimedia/language-data/pull/5 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/407155/