So here's what has to happen next:



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Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 10:19 AM
To: langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 52, Issue 27
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Oliver Stegen)
   2. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Amir E. Aharoni)
   3. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Michael Everson)
   4. Re: 2018 SIL approvals (was: Western Armenian has been
      adopted "hyw") (Michael Everson)
   5. Re: Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw" (Michael Everson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 13:39:20 +0100
From: Oliver Stegen <oliver_stegen@sil.org>
To: langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw"
Message-ID: <fe2adfa1-bb2b-63d9-3a94-df602d709e6a@sil.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Congratulations, Michael and the entire Western Armenian community (or
rather communities!). And thanks for all the effort you put into this!

Cheers,
Oliver


On 30-Jan-18 23:22, Michael Everson wrote:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-01.sil.org%2Fiso639-3%2Fcr_files%2F639-3_ChangeRequests_2017_Summary.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=1crOxdJfYWi%2BtBnFhFTzIA4SyCYTLY5A8OMHD1BqZ80%3D&reserved=0
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-01.sil.org%2Fiso639-3%2Fcr_files%2FPastComments%2FCR_Comments_2017-023.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=OpMRRkKqHa69hHJdwlpTAnlyqVdYp2shr3cQVxG5Tjo%3D&reserved=0
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 14:56:13 +0200
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw"
Message-ID:
        <CACtNa8u3NAxtfTU+cPQpaPkR8Cvk2vT8LPY0rCJQogSktHHPgw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

So... This raises several questions.

1. Should this language be added to translatewiki.net? This was requested
some time ago: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftranslatewiki.net%2Fwiki%2FThread%3ASupport%2FAdd_&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=d5%2F5ej9JwMtCW3auDusy6q2VA%2B72x64ZZVxvKA%2Fi2Fg%3D&reserved=0
support_for_Western_Armenian_(hym) . This means that it will be possible to
translate MediaWiki into it.

2. I couldn't find a request for a Western Armenian Wikipedia, which is
somewhat surprising :) . The closest thing I can find is
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRequests_for_new_&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=44wOPeVSpEk5dj8A3BLv3SZtmLSJGDkdEVZTFBLQaDA%3D&reserved=0
languages/Wikipedia_Homshetsma , which is not the same thing. In any case,
whenever such a request is made, will it be eligible?

I am inclined to answer "yes" to both questions, but with a caveat. I know
very little about the Armenian language. My support is based mainly on
Michael's conclusions of the examination of the differences between Eastern
and Western varieties. However, the documents linked from the first email
in this thread mention the similarity of the situation with Montengrin,
which the committee seems not to support.

If we reject Montenegrin, but support Western Armenian, we'll have to
explain it.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-01-31 14:39 GMT+02:00 Oliver Stegen <oliver_stegen@sil.org>:

> Congratulations, Michael and the entire Western Armenian community (or
> rather communities!). And thanks for all the effort you put into this!
>
> Cheers,
> Oliver
>
>
>
> On 30-Jan-18 23:22, Michael Everson wrote:
>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-01.sil.org%2Fiso639-3%2Fcr_files%2F639-3_ChangeRequests&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=zhT9XWrTrkZmzGFvgZWR1n7YyTqa9eyIkqYyGVYVcng%3D&reserved=0
>> _2017_Summary.pdf
>>
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-01.sil.org%2Fiso639-3%2Fcr_files%2FPastComments%2FCR_Comm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=B53ojFym%2F6ZRn26nMc0YbChm%2BvRsc%2FSpfs6Zw5WSXW0%3D&reserved=0
>> ents_2017-023.pdf
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
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>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:04:18 +0000
From: Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw"
Message-ID: <4E46FAE6-3170-4239-8A41-8FD3821F181A@evertype.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

On 31 Jan 2018, at 12:39, Oliver Stegen <oliver_stegen@sil.org> wrote:
>
> Congratulations, Michael and the entire Western Armenian community (or rather communities!). And thanks for all the effort you put into this!

It was quite a lot of effort, producing the proposal document.

Now let’s get this one going. What do they have to do now?

Michael


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:03:20 +0000
From: Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] 2018 SIL approvals (was: Western Armenian has
        been adopted "hyw")
Message-ID: <3523D00A-EF1C-4F37-B39B-8D1645ADB541@evertype.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Gerard. 639-2 is a subset of 639-3

> On 31 Jan 2018, at 09:57, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> Wait a sec; Montenegrin is to be recognised by the ISO 639-3. I do not care for what ISO 639-2 has to say.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 31 January 2018 at 10:47, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In fact, the entire 2017 SIL approval/rejection results are available here. (Montenegrin does not appear here, as that was a separate process through ISO 639-2.)
>
> Sent from Outlook
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:18:52 +0000
From: Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Western Armenian has been adopted "hyw"
Message-ID: <7A799968-3FE4-4B06-B5C7-C1878C3DB8B6@evertype.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 31 Jan 2018, at 12:56, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> So... This raises several questions.

Really?

> 1. Should this language be added to translatewiki.net? This was requested some time ago: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftranslatewiki.net%2Fwiki%2FThread%3ASupport%2FAdd_support_for_Western_Armenian_(hym&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=9Wrn3pjIIRV%2BDKxMIu8Z4TKBhpdpoyKsZck95q1YU0o%3D&reserved=0) . This means that it will be possible to translate MediaWiki into it.

Yes, certainly it should.

> 2. I couldn't find a request for a Western Armenian Wikipedia, which is somewhat surprising :) . The closest thing I can find is https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRequests_for_new_languages%2FWikipedia_Homshetsma&data=02%7C01%7C%7C24ad873f3f8247262c6208d568bdfec5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636530087580552308&sdata=VkjjXkji0NS3%2BDDsbgP3%2Fy3aQQXohFm4VBYiQwYaNck%3D&reserved=0 , which is not the same thing. In any case, whenever such a request is made, will it be eligible?

It will be eligible. There are some articles in the current Armenian Wikipedia that are marked as written in Western Armenian, and I would be expecting them to be migrated.

Homshetsi is evidently a dialect of Western Armenian with fewer than 1000 speakers. I do not know anything more about it. It has no ISO code.

> I am inclined to answer "yes" to both questions, but with a caveat. I know very little about the Armenian language. My support is based mainly on Michael's conclusions of the examination of the differences between Eastern and Western varieties.

We showed lists and paradigms showing the linguistic differences.

> However, the documents linked from the first email in this thread mention the similarity of the situation with Montengrin, which the committee seems not to support.

I don’t support it because it does not appear that Montenegrin differs from Serbian in any significant way.

> If we reject Montenegrin, but support Western Armenian, we'll have to explain it.

Absolutely we do not have to do this. There is no dependency between them. None. And Western Armenian is HUGELY different from Eastern Armenian. Please study the attached which was part of our proposal for the language code.

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End of Langcom Digest, Vol 52, Issue 27
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