I have posted about this on Talk:Language committee now:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Approval_of_the_Mor…
tor. 12. okt. 2023 kl. 22:44 skrev Tochi Precious <tochiprecious2(a)gmail.com
:
> I actually went through it this afternoon and saw how engaged and active
> it has been for 3 years. I recommend the approval.
>
> ---
> Tochi
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 2:23 PM Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I would like to suggest the approval of this test wiki. Any objections?
>> Anass can surely verify the content personally, I don't think we need any
>> external verification in this case.
>>
>> lør. 26. aug. 2023 kl. 12:48 skrev Gerard Meijssen <
>> gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
:
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> There may be some who consider languages in the Arabic family as
>>> ineligible. This is not the case, one example is the Egyptian Arabic
>>> Wikipedia. The notion that everyone who speaks one kind of Arabic
>>> understands every other version of Arabic is wrong.
>>>
>>> There are many languages derived from Arabic, all have their own ISO
>>> code they may all have their own dialects. The notion of politics is
>>> EXACTLY why many people want to standardise on one Arabic Wikipedia.
>>> Thanks,
>>> GerardM
>>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 at 02:56, Sotiale Wiki <sotiale.wm(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> Standard Arabic is arb (Arabic: ara) and still if someone posts a new
>>>> language request for Wp/arb, it won't be eligible. Unless the
speakers of
>>>> Arabic Wikipedia are unable to communicate in Standard Arabic. But I
don't
>>>> think there's any reason a native speaker of Arabic can't speak
Standard
>>>> Arabic. So there is no reason for existing Arabic Wikipedia to be
>>>> disqualified for this reason, but even so, the Arabic Wikipedia was
created
>>>> prior to the LPP and is therefore unaffected.
>>>>
>>>> The requirement to be a distinct language is to ensure that there are
>>>> no multiple Wikipedias for a language that is sufficiently communicative
at
>>>> the dialect level equivalent(If this were incomprehensible to native
>>>> speakers, it would have been recognized as a separate language). In
>>>> general, these branches are likely for political reasons, which may be
>>>> on-wiki as well as off-wiki reasons. This permission of Wikipedia
>>>> jeopardizes NPOV by creating Wikipedia with different views of the same
>>>> language for that purpose. Even if it has no such purpose, it is likely
to
>>>> be abused as such.
>>>>
>>>> Sotiale
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
바이러스가
>>>>
없습니다.www.avast.com
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> 2023년 8월 26일 (토) 오전 3:32, Anass Sedrati <sedranas(a)gmail.xn--com>-4f21ay07k 작성:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Sotiale and thank you for your answer,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for my late reply as I was travelling back from Singapore and
>>>>> had also other engagements.
>>>>>
>>>>> So regarding your argumentation, if you consider zgh not a distinct
>>>>> language "because it is just a standard representation of
Berber
>>>>> languages", then we have also to consider standard Arabic (ISO
>>>>> 639:ara) not a distinct language because it is not spoken in any
>>>>> country/region and is "a standard representation of Arabic
languages". Of
>>>>> course, there are many more sources and books in standard Arabic due
to
>>>>> religious and historical reasons, but it is still a standardized
language,
>>>>> and only a written one. This said, it will of course never be
considered to
>>>>> close the Arabic Wikipedia because of it. Therefore, it can be
really
>>>>> tricky to base the decisions on this argument, although it is
>>>>> understandable that some languages are "bigger" or more
established than
>>>>> others. What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anass
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 3:08 PM MF-Warburg
<mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> NB: there has also been a discussion at <
>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Morocc…gt;.
>>>>>> I believe there are several requests open for related languages.
It would
>>>>>> be good to have some clarity to avoid the community being split
into
>>>>>> multiple incubator test-wikis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am Fr., 18. Aug. 2023 um 14:38 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
>>>>>> sotiale.wm(a)gmail.com
:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind explanation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this can be understood as the relationship between
Standard
>>>>>>> Arabic (ISO 639:arb) and Arabic (ISO 639:ara), then zgh is
not a distinct
>>>>>>> language because it is just a standard representation of
Berber
>>>>>>> languages. This is true even in light of the current LPP,
which excludes
>>>>>>> different written forms of any language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefore, it seems that eligibility for this language cannot
be
>>>>>>> recognized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sotiale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2023년 8월 16일 (수) 오후 10:48, Anass Sedrati
<sedranas(a)gmail.xn--com>-4f21ay07k 작성:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am very familiar with this case as I come myself from
Morocco and
>>>>>>>> speak Berber. The standard Tamazight (
>>>>>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Moroccan_Amazigh)
is not a
>>>>>>>> spoken language, but only a written one. It was created
by the official
>>>>>>>> Academy of Berber languages in Morocco (
>>>>>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Institute_of_Amazigh_Culture)
>>>>>>>> in an attempt to standardize the Berber languages, as
there are many of
>>>>>>>> them spoken in Morocco (
>>>>>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_languages).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So to answer you, standard Tamazight is exactly like
modern
>>>>>>>> standard Arabic (
>>>>>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Standard_Arabic). It
is a
>>>>>>>> standardized language with rules, but not a spoken one
(nobody speaks
>>>>>>>> standard Arabic as a mother tongue, every Arab country
has its own dialect).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is to explain that even if it not native, Zgh can be
treated
>>>>>>>> as modern standard Arabic in terms of linguistics. I hope
that this gives a
>>>>>>>> bit of context, but I am happy to expand on any aspect if
you have
>>>>>>>> additional questions!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anass
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 3:00 PM Sotiale Wiki
<sotiale.wm(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not familiar with the Moroccan languages, so
I'd love to hear
>>>>>>>>> from other colleagues.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm considering this language project as a
potential candidate for
>>>>>>>>> approval, but I'm wondering if this is a
standardization of other
>>>>>>>>> languages, or a distinct language from others?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since this site[1] states that there are no native
speakers, I
>>>>>>>>> wondered if this was just standardization of other
languages(the case that
>>>>>>>>> native speakers have a standardized language while
using their own
>>>>>>>>> languages).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1]
https://www.ethnologue.com/language/zgh/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sotiale
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
바이러스가
>>>>>>>>>
없습니다.www.avast.com
>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *Anass SEDRATI*
>>>>>>>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07*
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langcom-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *Anass SEDRATI*
>>>>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07*
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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--
mvh
Jon Harald Søby