Langcom June 2018

langcom@lists.wikimedia.org

8 participants
17 discussions

Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (second group)
by Steven White 13 Jun '18

13 Jun '18

Wikipedia Lishan Didan<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Lishan…> (trg): Modern Jewish Aramaic dialect from the Caucasus, now mostly spoken in Israel, with about 4500 speakers. No content has been created, so I am placing on hold. Wikipedia Gronings<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Gronin…> (gos) and Wikipedia East Frisian Low Saxon<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_East_F…> (frs): These are two requests from the same individual. So far, each of these tests has only a one-sentence main page on Incubator. These languages are both part of the dialect continuum in Low Saxon/Low German, even though each has its own language code. The claim is made that they are quite similar to each other, but different enough from other dialects that they don't fit into either Low German Wikipedia<https://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:H%C3%B6%C3%B6ftsiet> or Dutch Low Saxon Wikipedia<https://nds-nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6%C3%A4rblad>. That seems a little hard for me to believe, especially given that there is a small Gronings section<https://nds-nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portoal:Grunnen> of the Dutch Low Saxon project. I'm going to wait for some comments from the Committee on these. My opinion is (a) we should probably reject them both, on the grounds that the language space is adequately covered within the two existing projects, but (b) if you want to make these eligible, that they be made eligible as a merged test. (The requester would be amenable to that solution.) Wikipedia Pu-Xian Min<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pu-Xia…> (cpx): Clearly eligible, and I will mark it so. Wikipedia Amis<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Amis> (ami): This is an indigenous language of Taiwan, spoken by 180,000 people. The enwiki article describes it as a dialect cluster. There is some controversy around whether Sakizaya is part of this cluster or not, and a group running a Sakizaya test on Incubator is working on a submission to SIL for 2018, supported by the Taiwan government. But there is no controversy about Amis itself, and the test is active. So this is eligible, and I will mark it so. Steven Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

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Chinese
by Gerard Meijssen 13 Jun '18

13 Jun '18

Hoi, Chinese is special because the difference between the various flavours of Chinese are handled in software, not in translatewiki. It works for both the localisation and the text. A question was raised if the Language committee needs to provide permission for specific versions of Chinese eg Hong Kong or Singapore Chinese. It means that in code characters are replaced by others.. In my opinion this is no different from having American, British, Australian articles in the English Wikipedia and consequently I think that we do not have to give our agreement. Do you all concur? Thanks, GerardM

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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)
by Steven White 13 Jun '18

13 Jun '18

Gerard, your opinion puts me into a difficult situation. The formal "Requests for new languages" page does not specifically request a Latin-alphabet project. It simply requests a project. The language has enough speakers to be eligible by policy. Unless somebody checks out the project and tells me that what is written is not Khorasani Turkic at all, the project has enough activity to be eligible by policy. And under normal circumstances it is not our role to tell a community in Incubator how to run its project. For these reasons, I don't really see a policy-based justification for not marking this request "eligible". The test is not so active that it will get anywhere near approvability any time soon. So I think for now, we have to mark it eligible. And if and when it comes up for approval, we can decide what to do at that point. Steven Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: Langcom <langcom-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org <langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:15 AM To: langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 57, Issue 5 Send Langcom mailing list submissions to langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org You can reach the person managing the list at langcom-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Langcom digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group) (Steven White) 2. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group) (Gerard Meijssen) 3. Chinese (Gerard Meijssen) 4. Re: Chinese (Jon Harald Søby) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 15:21:54 +0000 From: Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com> To: "langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org" <langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group) Message-ID: <BLUPR12MB06918710F000146977737EB59E7F0(a)BLUPR12MB0691.namprd12.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian" situation is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an active, solid project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this project has to work through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this happen. In the case of Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in this language. And the language is inherently eligible. So I think by policy I need to mark it eligible. By the time it comes to approve the project, if ever, one of the following will have happened: * Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people will have come along and changed the content to that script. * That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will make use of the project in Latin script. * Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a modus vivendi between the two while the test is still in Incubator. For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible". Steven Sent from Outlook<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fw…> ________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200 From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee <langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group) Message-ID: <CAO53wxWRPL4TC8UpO3e1tFUe-bX0arSQEPRiU_MDw5B27RqZKg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hoi, It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby. Thanks, GerardM On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson <siorrai(a)evertype.com> wrote: > I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create > one. > > > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible. > But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor > the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts? > >

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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group)
by Steven White 12 Jun '18

12 Jun '18

I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian" situation is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an active, solid project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this project has to work through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this happen. In the case of Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in this language. And the language is inherently eligible. So I think by policy I need to mark it eligible. By the time it comes to approve the project, if ever, one of the following will have happened: * Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people will have come along and changed the content to that script. * That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will make use of the project in Latin script. * Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a modus vivendi between the two while the test is still in Incubator. For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible". Steven Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200 From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee <langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first group) Message-ID: <CAO53wxWRPL4TC8UpO3e1tFUe-bX0arSQEPRiU_MDw5B27RqZKg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hoi, It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby. Thanks, GerardM On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson <siorrai(a)evertype.com> wrote: > I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create > one. > > > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible. > But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor > the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts? > >

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Looking for a path to approve Chinese Wikiversity
by Steven White 08 Jun '18

08 Jun '18

Chinese Wikiversity is far and away the biggest project in Beta Wikiversity—over twice as big as any other project there. Interface translation is, of course, complete in Chinese. The stumbling block has been getting three REGISTERED users for three consecutive months. At this point, we have had three REGISTERED users in three of the last four months. Additionally, over the course of the last seven months, all months without three registered users have had two registered users plus an enormous contribution from IP user(s). Given that the Great Firewall complicates things in China, I'm inclined to try to move in the direction of an approval now. Yet the fact that so much of the recent work has been done by IPs—meaning that it's hard for people to hold the contributor(s) accountable—gives some pause. So I'd like to propose the following: Let's try to get someone who is a known, trusted user to look over the material. I don't think that person needs to confirm that the language is correct, and I don't especially think it's our business to try to judge quality. I would simply want this person to confirm that this large IP contribution to the project (a) is not clearly biased, nor (b) represents an edit war between different points of view. If our checker thinks there is a problem we won't approve. If not, maybe we can go ahead. Among LangCom members, the only who advertises at least level-3 language skills in Chinese is André Müller. So if possible, André should be the checker. If that's not possible, I'm going to propose User:Hydriz. There are no stewards or global sysops with fluency in Chinese. But Hydriz is a global rollbacker, a sysop on Incubator, and a MediaWiki developer. So I think he's a reasonable alternative candidate. What do people think? Steven Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

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Re: [Langcom] Increasing coordination of Efforts
by Steven White 08 Jun '18

08 Jun '18

I won't be at Wikimedia. But I'd be up for periodic conference calls. Steven Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: Langcom <langcom-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org <langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 8:00 AM To: langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 Hey All Am wondering if the occasionally teleconference would help with coordination of efforts? Realize that with us being in all parts of the world people will not be able to make all discussions. But wondering peoples thoughts on if it would help develop processes to deal with the backlog? Additionally not sure how many people will be at Wikimania however that could also be a good time to meet. Best -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

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Increasing coordination of Efforts
by James Heilman 07 Jun '18

07 Jun '18

Hey All Am wondering if the occasionally teleconference would help with coordination of efforts? Realize that with us being in all parts of the world people will not be able to make all discussions. But wondering peoples thoughts on if it would help develop processes to deal with the backlog? Additionally not sure how many people will be at Wikimania however that could also be a good time to meet. Best -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

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Langcom June 2018