Hi,
There's something that I had to consider several times recently: If there
are doubts about a language's eligibility for having its own Wikipedia, but
it does have an ISO code, is there any reason to deny translation into it
in translatewiki?
More precisely: The language definitely passes criterion 2 in "Requisites
for eligibility" [1] ("The language must have a valid ISO 639 1–3 code"),
but there is no conclusive decision about whether it passes criterion 3
("The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a
more general wiki").
Example 1: Montenegrin (cnr), which was discussed lately, and about which
most of the Language committee seems to have the opinion that it doesn't
pass criterion 3.
Example 2: Ancash Quechua (qwh). There is some discussion about it at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Ancash…
, but I cannot find any discussion by committee members (other than
Steven). (I don't have an opinion about it myself, and I'm not opposed to
marking it as eligible.)
Example 3: Dari (prs). This was already rejected by the committee with an
explanation similar to Montenegrin, but it is already enabled in
translatewiki. (Curiously, translatewiki also has Zoroastrian Dari [gbz];
I'm not sure why, but I'm not really opposed to it.)
I'd say that in such cases, localization in translatewiki should usually be
allowed. In translatewiki we have English, UK English, and Canadian
English; German and Formal German (Sie); Hungarian and Formal Hungarian. If
these are eligible for translatewiki, then I'd say that cnr and qwh are
eligible for translatewiki, because both seem to have at least some
differences from related languages.
Of course, there's the question of whether Language Committee decisions
apply to translatewiki at all, given that it's not really a Wikimedia
project, but it's probably legitimate to at least express an opinion.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_proposal_policy#Requisites_for_eli…
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Hoi,
In principle the language committee has given permission for monolingual
texts. This is NOT given for labels, descriptions and aliases. That
requires involvement of native speakers. It requires an agreement of the
language committee.
What makes you think you can add labels and descriptions correctly?
Thanks,
GerardM
On 18 February 2018 at 11:44, Csisc <no-reply(a)phabricator.wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> Csisc added a comment.
>
> In T187344#3981503 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T187344#3981503>,
> @Mbch331 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/p/Mbch331/> wrote:
>
> You want it for labels and descriptions or for properties of the type
> monolingual text? If you want the first, then the dialects/languages need
> to be added to ULS for the second a patch of the Wikidata settings are
> needed.
>
> For adding labels, descriptions and aliases to Wikidata entities and
> properties.
>
> *TASK DETAIL*
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T187344
>
> *EMAIL PREFERENCES*
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/
>
> *To: *GerardM, Csisc
> *Cc: *Mbch331, Bassem, Ibrahim.ID, Helmoony, FShbib, ASammour, Jar,
> Meno25, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, Nikerabbit, Amire80, GerardM,
> satdeep_gill, millosh, Baba_Tabita, Aklapper, alanajjar, Csisc,
> Asad_Ali_Palijo, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, Soteriaspace, RazeSoldier,
> Jayprakash12345, JakeTheDeveloper, QZanden, Zoranzoki21, LawExplorer,
> Soum213, MuhammadShuaib, SimmeD, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Arrbee, santhosh,
> KartikMistry, TheDJ
>
MF-W, you're right about that. My apologies. I was trying to look through this even though my browser doesn't render the script, and I simply misunderstood what I was looking at the first time. Like most of the other test projects with "enough activity", this test is still too stubby.
I am going to try to contact as many of the projects as possible to see what I can do about that.
Steven
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Chinese Wikiversity (MF-Warburg)
2. Re: February 2017 Incubator Statistics (MF-Warburg)
3. Shan Wikipedia (MF-Warburg)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:52:53 +0100
From: MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Chinese Wikiversity
Message-ID:
<CAJKMOMU-i5XqE6ZU0Gdx7pWPLPyCoS9bkT9EoCH3KOCeJbf5pw(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Can we do something to make people register? Seeing the really high number
of edits made by anonymous users at <
https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.wmf…>,
that would also be beneficial when it comes to selecting admins etc. which
we would want the local community to do. User:Javarobot (not a bot) is
continuously active for some months already, but e.g. User:Assoc is
meanwhile globally locked.
2018-02-07 20:11 GMT+01:00 Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com>:
> I'd like to open this subject up for discussion.
>
>
> Chinese Wikiversity is the largest test within Beta Wikiversity, with 722
> pages (as of today). While the numbers aren't directly comparable, that
> number is higher than the number of pages in each of the smallest seven
> independent Wikiversity projects. Additionally, the interface translation
> is effectively complete in both zh-hans and zh-hant.
>
>
> Where there is a question here is on community activity. The truth is that
> LangCom should have approved this project around the end of 2014. From late
> 2012 through the end of 2014, this test project met the activity
> requirement just about every single month. From then until late in 2017,
> activity was consistent, but not quite as high, with most months not quite
> seeing enough activity for approval.
>
>
> Since late 2017, there has been a great deal of activity, most of which
> comes from anonymous users. Now, I understand that we normally don't count
> in "anonymous" when looking for regular activity. But given the magnitude
> of the activity, the past periods of activity, the fact that even without
> the anonymous contributions there is almost enough activity to allow
> approval—and most of all, the confounding factor of the Great Firewall—I'm
> actually inclined to consider approving this.
>
>
> Please share your thoughts.
>
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fw…>
>
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>
>
I just completed an evaluation of what is contained in Incubator. Here are some details<https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Test_status_statistics>:
* There were 1,020 tests with at least one apparently valid page of content.
* Of those, just under half were "substantial". I define "substantial" as follows: (a) at least one page added to the project in 2017 or later, excluding clear housekeeping additions, and/or (b) at least 25 mainspace pages in the test.
* Two of those are tests that have been approved and are awaiting creation (Ingush Wikipedia, Elefen Wikipedia). (MF-Warburg: I know these have been slowed down with the developers. Do you have any timeframe on them?)
* Aside from those two, thirteen others have sufficient activity to meet the activity requirement for approval (at least three current consecutive months of at least three registered users having at least ten edits each).
* Of those thirteen:
* One has been tentatively approved, but is still pending language verification (Gorontalo Wikipedia). (MF-Warburg and Amir: Do we need to look for different experts?)
* One more is now ready for evaluation by LangCom (Shan Wikipedia<https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/shn>).
* One is currently being discussed by LangCom (Pashto Wikivoyage).
* The other ten are not ready for an approval discussion, for other reasons:
* Nyungar Wikipedia: Current LangCom discussion on language of content.
* Sakizaya Wikipedia: There is currently an issue with the language code. The code the community uses, ais, is not an invalid one for the language, at least for the purpose of running a test on Incubator. But the issue needs to be resolved more completely before LangCom fully considers approval of the project. The community expects to try to resolve that in next year's batch of requests at SIL. If anyone wants more information, just let me know. (The test is also still a little stubby.)
* The remaining eight tests are either too stubby, or their interface translation is incomplete, or both. I am trying to encourage these communities to start filling out pages more fully, rather than creating more stubs.
Any questions, please let me know.
Steven
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I'd like to open this subject up for discussion.
Chinese Wikiversity is the largest test within Beta Wikiversity, with 722 pages (as of today). While the numbers aren't directly comparable, that number is higher than the number of pages in each of the smallest seven independent Wikiversity projects. Additionally, the interface translation is effectively complete in both zh-hans and zh-hant.
Where there is a question here is on community activity. The truth is that LangCom should have approved this project around the end of 2014. From late 2012 through the end of 2014, this test project met the activity requirement just about every single month. From then until late in 2017, activity was consistent, but not quite as high, with most months not quite seeing enough activity for approval.
Since late 2017, there has been a great deal of activity, most of which comes from anonymous users. Now, I understand that we normally don't count in "anonymous" when looking for regular activity. But given the magnitude of the activity, the past periods of activity, the fact that even without the anonymous contributions there is almost enough activity to allow approval—and most of all, the confounding factor of the Great Firewall—I'm actually inclined to consider approving this.
Please share your thoughts.
Steven
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I'm non-voting, of course, so I'm not going to offer an opinion, per se. But, Gideon, I keep hearing "in Berlin". Whom did you speak to in Berlin? LangCom people? Board members? If it was board members, then we might actually need some guidance as to what the board was thinking, and as to what they might like us to do about this.
Steven
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Kaya Folks
We have completed all the tasks asked of us in berlin and continue to
expand the translations and the article content. As I see it we are ready
to go,
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Nyungar
--
Gideon Digby
Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
M: 0434 986 852
gnangarra(a)wikimedia.org.au
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Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
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*http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
I'd like to bring this back up. Since I first brought this up about 6-7 weeks ago, the Wy/ps community has continued to remain active and has continued to add content. Still, the community is starting to feel frustrated that it can get no sense from us what it will take to get over the finish line. I will emphasize, again, that the community has done absolutely everything we have asked of it to try to get the project ready. Since the only one who has objected so far is MF-Warburg, I'd like to ask him, in particular, if he can see clear to an approval now.
Thanks.
Steven
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