Wikipedia-l February 2003

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

70 participants
133 discussions

Re: = Re:_front_page_of_www_and_Troph=E9es_du_Libre?=
by Daniel Mayer 09 Feb '03

09 Feb '03

On Saturday 08 February 2003 12:35 pm, Erik Moeller wrote: >..... > If you want more than just language links on the portal, you have to wait > for phase IV. It's that simple. What we probably can do immediately, > though, is highlight (e.g. background color) the existing language link to > the user's primary language on *every page* (not just www.wikipedia.org) > that has a translation in that language. > > Regards, > > Erik Well if Anthere et al don't want an automatic slice of the huge amount of traffic going to en.wiki's Main Page then I really don't know what to say. <analogy> Just because street thugs (advertisers) use knifes (language redirection based on browser settings) doesn't mean that you shouldn't trust your surgeon with a scalpel. </analogy> But I really like your highlighting idea Erik. This gives /even/ more visibility to the multilanguage(sic) aspect of Wikipedia while still presenting the user with a content laden and useful entry point. I think we should reexamine Anthere's 'content on the portal' idea for possible implementation in Phase IV. This might be a good place to have en.wiki's Selected Articles section (if and when the browser a person is using is set to English - if not then some selected content from the appropriate language would be presented). Heck, we could even set the 'selected content' to include the whole Main Page that corresponds to the language set in a person's browser (what would be more useful than that?). Then what we would have is Neil's header proposal. --Daniel Mayer (aka mav) WikiKarma: I added more events to [[February 3]] and (as always) after Zoe finished adding more births/deaths and even more events I updated all the year pages and many of the other articles linked from that page.

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Re: front page of www and Trophées du Libre
by Daniel Mayer 09 Feb '03

09 Feb '03

On Friday 07 February 2003 04:58 pm, Anthere wrote: > >But we could move it to en.wikipedia.org and rotate the address > >www.wikipedia.org weekly among all the wikipedias so it points one week to > >the Main Page of the French, next week to the Spanish, then to the English > >and so on until PhaseIV is ready. > > I actually like this idea! > > > Yeah me too :-) If you like this idea then why not support, as an interim solution, the browser language sniffing idea whereby the language set in a person's browser will redirect them to an active WIkipedia language (and if the language set in the person's browser doesn't exist in wiki or isn't active with more than 100 articles then it is directed to en.eiki)? Rotating the Main Page for everybody would confuse the hell out of users while there is some logic to the sniffing idea - at least as an interim solution. But I will again state for the record that I think it would be a big mistake to just put-up a static link page at www.wikipedia.org whose only job is to direct people to different languages. Wikipedia is alive and our most visible page should indicate this by having useful project-wide features and logins. So I for one say we should wait until Phase IV before we change our most visited page (but IMO we can move en.wiki now so long as we provide browser language sniffing). We could and IMO should, also have our first project-wide press release posted at the time of the change in order to announce that we are, at last, a fully functional multilanguage project. But if we implement the language-sniffing idea then all the most active wikis (I think there are 12 now) will be able to use wikipedia.org for promotional purposes. We may even like the idea and build upon it (as the 'multilanguage header frame proposal' by Neil in meta suggests). http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_to_do_with_www.wikipedia.org --Daniel Mayer (aka mav) WikiKarma: I added many events to [[February 2]], updated all the year pages and many of the articles linked from that page.

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front page of www
by wiki pedista 08 Feb '03

08 Feb '03

Jimbo wrote: ''I wonder what would happen if we unprotected the home page for a few days, with the *express plan* of trying to do something more international there?'' No, I don't think that would do the trick. That is the Main Page of the english wikipedia, it doesn't have to be multilingual (I think it is international enough). The objection is that the www.wikipedia.org points to www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main+Page, the main page of the ''english'' wikipedia, that doesn't necessarily have to be the Main Page of the ''whole'' project. (I wasn't going to bring this up for a while, but Jimbo asked) AstroNomer Wikikarma: Started article [[radiostronomia]] in es.wikipedia __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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The MIT vandal
by Jimmy Wales 08 Feb '03

08 Feb '03

The vandalism was coming from: 18.56.0.30 and soon after *.31. That's at MIT, apparently. Drunk college kid, I bet. I blocked just those two, and things have been quiet for a few minutes. We might need to extend the ban to 18.56.0.* for a few days if it becomes necessary. I'm logging off now, hopefully this information will be sufficient to allow others to mount an easy defense if it comes back.

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] dual licence?
by James Z 08 Feb '03

08 Feb '03

wikipedia can suck my big fat wang penis. --- my site - www.jzcool.net On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:32:34 Tom Parmenter wrote: > >It isn't unreasonable to think, that with no institutional effort on >our part, the FDL and the Creative Commons, and public domain will >flow together. Individual contributors may pursue it (and perhaps >reunite with Isis) but for most of us, these discussions are >academic. We claim no copyright, don't want any, wouldn't accept it, >and are occasionally bemused by trying to figure out how we ended up >with one after so much effort not to have one. > >I have never been involved in a discussion of the GFDL in Wikipedia >that didn't feel like a troll to me. See [[Talk:Oregon City, Oregon]] >and [[Talk:Hitler has only got one ball]]. > >Tom Parmenter >Ortolan88 > >|From: erik_moeller(a)gmx.de (Erik Moeller) >|Sender: wikipedia-l-admin(a)wikipedia.org >|Reply-To: wikipedia-l(a)wikipedia.org >|Date: 08 Feb 2003 01:48:00 +0100 >| >|> Your GFDL contributions will fall into the public domain 70 years after >|> your death anyway. Why wait? Why not release them right now? I found >|> the idea quite liberating, actually. >| >|The FDL idea is, of course, more anti-copyright than the public domain >|idea, because it is intended to convince others to release their content >|openly. It turns copyright against itself - the only freedom it takes away >|is the freedom to exert control over content. The FDL has various problems >|(GNU is primarily about software, and hasn't really spent much work on >|developing decent general open content licenses), and other licenses >|aren't established enough. >| >|The copyleft concept only works well with a standardized license. Neither >|GNU nor Creative Commons will give that to us. I do believe that >|Wikipedia's use of the FDL will give it a big boost, and that we can >|increasingly use that as an argument that the FDL *is* the standard share- >|alike license. Isn't that amazing - we're already so big that we can argue >|that something we do is right because we do it. Almost like Microsoft ;-) >| >|Regards, >| >|Erik >|_______________________________________________ >|Wikipedia-l mailing list >|Wikipedia-l(a)wikipedia.org >|http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >| > >_______________________________________________ >Wikipedia-l mailing list >Wikipedia-l(a)wikipedia.org >http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l > _____________________________________________________________ Get 25MB, POP3, Spam Filtering with LYCOS MAIL PLUS for $19.95/year. http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus

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Racialisme
by Yann Forget 08 Feb '03

08 Feb '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, It's me who put this in the "racialisme" article. The word may be used by quite some people, but I really think that it was invented by racist groups and people to justify racism. Links in Google don't and can't justify anything. And I also redirected the articles about "racisme anti-blanc" and "racisme à l'envers" to "racisme". Personnally I don't think such articles should be in Wikipedia. I think that it doesn't improve the quality and reputation of Wikipedia. But if a great number of people think I am wrong, then put back these articles. However, I do not support the idea to block people who write racist articles. It's counter-productive. It's better to correct their articles and show them the limit (as defined by the law in France). And this as long as they are few and we can correct their articles. Regards, Yann PS: I didn't subscribed to this list. So cc: me if necessary. > Anthere, do you read my mails ????? > I don't say racialism don't exist because there are not in the dictionnary. > I said this word is not french, so we have to think about how to handle this > kind of case. > And what is the criteria that make a word that don't exist officially can be > add in an encyclopedie or not ? > I'm not the one that put the poor definition of racialism yesterday and I'm > not the one who have removed [racisme antiblanc] and [racisme inverse]. > Please stop firing in the whole. < Aoineko - -- http://www.forget-me.net Alternatives sur le Net http://keys.indymedia.org/showkey.py?key=0A34CBDA gpg --keyserver keys.indymedia.org --recv-key 0A34CBDA -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+OnJcm4KYjQo0y9oRAryFAKCQ1xsg8enBe8ozEjE6E6mmcXPyGACfd0l6 k4iLwVzFCwVKb8+VS26HqY8= =QoDP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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racialisme
by julien tayon 08 Feb '03

08 Feb '03

Hello, I did remove philippe's article far before Yann for two reasons : - first it was not neutral, as a french who is aware of political science and history letting him write this article was the same as letting KKK write an article on white power. It does not means he is racist, it only means he is lacking of objectivity (or "recul"), - secondly, is considered racist anythings that gets in contradiction with the first article of the Déclaration universelle des Droits de l'Homme, saying that any people are born equal in dignity and in regard to the law, and therefore (article 2) no difference can be made regarding the the people. And that is illegal in France. Europe is not america, we do not have the 1st Amendment (liberty of speech) we have la liberté d'expression (which is bounded to the respect of the ground of democracy), and since the 2nd WW it is considered as a delictuous to justify or state theory that are either xenophobic, racist, or revisionist (like saying shoah never existed). You may say that wikipedia is in the US. Fine, Yahoo also was but had problems with french justice for selling nazis items, because regarding internet, France -as the US- consider their justice is "extra-terriorial". As long as a speech is seen from France, it can be prosecuted wherever the server is. If we accept definition that are an implicit legitimation of racism (racialism) (wich made nazi legitimate too in killing tzigan) : - should we also made article saying that it is legitimate to think shoah never was? If so no matter what my opinions are, I will write it. - Do you assume the legal responsabilities if we are prosecuted ? And least, but not last, we may suffer indymedia far right infiltration : french indymedia is down since they let antisemitic articles being written. It was not their fault, they just did not see them arrive. Infiltrated far rightists begun to write articles that were border line first and their expresses their full expanded ideas afterwards. Sometimes we may have to think in long term. Infiltration is classic for french far rightist and leftist movement. They consider the "noyeautage" as one way to convince people of the (far) rightness of their ideas. If you are not firm at the very beginning, fr.wikipedia.org will have the same problem as indymedia => shutdown -f now. Take your responsabilities, but don't close your eyes, please. Friendly yours, PS words do not grow in dictionnary, they result from a consensus. Just ask yourself, knowing that words in "ism" are the same in french and english : do I know any words like racialism ? Maybe it proves nothing few knows priapism, or botulism, but still ask yourself. -- Julien Tayon aka Jul on fr.wikipedia.org http://www.tayon.net/ http://libroscope.org/ Si la vérité est une femme, essayons de la séduire avant de la saisir.

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Is Giskart right? www.wikipedia.org
by wiki pedista 07 Feb '03

07 Feb '03

Giskart wrote: ''It seems clear to my that the English Wikipedia is not willing to give up his prominend location at www.wikipedia.org.'' Is that true? I read declarations in the past that said otherwise, but actions seems to indicate that he is right. There has been discussion here and on meta, but the results are always in the future. Questions: Is there any technical reason that www.wikipedia.org can not have one content, while www.wikipedia.org/wiki/something and www.wikipedia.org/wiki/something point to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/something? Who has the final word in the "political" decision (as opposed to technical)? Jimbo? I remember him telling that he agreed to the change. Did he change his mind? I'm sorry to insist in what may appear to be a petty issue, but I do not think it is. --AstroNomer __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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Creative commons License
by wiki pedista 07 Feb '03

07 Feb '03

The site of MIT OpenCourseWare (http://ocw.mit.edu ) uses the Creative Commons License. The summary of said license shows immediately to be totally incompatible with GNU FDL, because it forbids commercial use without authorization. AstroNomer Wikikarma: Created the article ''Star formation'' (but the server still doesn't accept it). --------- P.S. Yes, I'm impatient, and don't want to wait for phase IV for a really international www.wikipedia.org. Though I agree that the optimization of the database to improve performance is more important it is also more difficult. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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Front page of www
by Jimmy Wales 07 Feb '03

07 Feb '03

It occurs to me that one big problem with finding a satisfactory "international" front page on www is that it is protected, due to being a big target for vandals. When the page is not protected, people will naturally edit and re-edit until a satisfactory compromise is reached. I wonder what would happen if we unprotected the home page for a few days, with the *express plan* of trying to do something more international there? --Jimbo

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Wikipedia-l February 2003