All,
I read this article with some concern. Thoughts?
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator-seeks-to-shut-down-le...
Of course, hackathons and editathons in the Wikimedia space are typically offered for free, but I don't know from the article whether that makes a difference. (The article doesn't have anything to say about what "compliance" entails.)
Interested in learning more about what's going on here.
Pete -- Pete Forsyth Principal, Wiki Strategies [[User:Peteforsyth]] on Wikipedia/Wikimedia
Pete Forsyth wrote:
I read this article with some concern. Thoughts?
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator-seeks-to-shut-down-le...
Cracking down on people teaching other people how to write code??
Well, after reading further, it's not as bad as it sounded at first. It looks like these learn-to-code schools are charging thousands of dollars per student, so there's potential for abuse, and so at least some reasonable basis for wanting government oversight.
There's a big list of criteria for exempt institutions here: http://bppe.ca.gov/lawsregs/ppe_act.shtml#94874 including this:
"(f) An institution that does not award degrees and that solely provides educational programs for total charges of two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) or less when no part of the total charges is paid from state or federal student financial aid programs."
The main law appears to be this:
"94886. Except as exempted in Article 4 (commencing with Section 94874 [quoted above]) or in compliance with the transition provisions in Article 2 (commencing with Section 94802), a person shall not open, conduct, or do business as a private postsecondary educational institution in this state without obtaining an approval to operate under this chapter."
and here is the definition of "private postsecondary educational institution":
"94858. 'Private postsecondary educational institution' means a private entity with a physical presence in this state that offers postsecondary education to the public for an institutional charge."
So, unless the hackathons and editathons are awarding degrees or charging money, I don't think there's anything to worry about. If there's really some concern, it might be worth asking a lawyer, but I don't think it's worth arranging a meeting just for this.
I doubt if we have anything to worry about -- or someone would be chasing after the entire MeetUp world. The article is very vague but my sense is that the state of CA is going after folks who claim to be "schools," who charge $$, and run courses with at least a pass/fail outcome and some concept of an earned certificate. That's a far cry from folks getting together from time to time to teach each other stuff.
kc
On 1/30/14, 5:03 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote:
All,
I read this article with some concern. Thoughts?
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator-seeks-to-shut-down-le...
Of course, hackathons and editathons in the Wikimedia space are typically offered for free, but I don't know from the article whether that makes a difference. (The article doesn't have anything to say about what "compliance" entails.)
Interested in learning more about what's going on here.
Pete
Pete Forsyth Principal, Wiki Strategies [[User:Peteforsyth]] on Wikipedia/Wikimedia
Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf
Thanks Karen and Ben,
I appreciate especially the bit about the $2500 threshold. Also, Leigh Honeywell posted a helpful quote from the agency's descriptoin of its mission: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2014-January/004154.html
I think this is worth keeping an eye on, because (while unlikely) it's not inconceivable to me that somebody might offer a course on Wikipedia (probably bundled with some other topics) that exceeds that cost threshold. I generally present events I produce, whether one-off or ongoing, as offering an opportunity to learn something; and I think formal instruction combined with peer learning can be a potent combination.
More on all that here, for anybody interested: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2014-January/004155.html
But, I think it's safe to say that the $2500 threshold addresses any potential urgency around this :)
-Pete
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net wrote:
I doubt if we have anything to worry about -- or someone would be chasing after the entire MeetUp world. The article is very vague but my sense is that the state of CA is going after folks who claim to be "schools," who charge $$, and run courses with at least a pass/fail outcome and some concept of an earned certificate. That's a far cry from folks getting together from time to time to teach each other stuff.
kc
On 1/30/14, 5:03 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote:
All,
I read this article with some concern. Thoughts?
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator- seeks-to-shut-down-learn-to-code-bootcamps/
Of course, hackathons and editathons in the Wikimedia space are typically offered for free, but I don't know from the article whether that makes a difference. (The article doesn't have anything to say about what "compliance" entails.)
Interested in learning more about what's going on here.
Pete
Pete Forsyth Principal, Wiki Strategies [[User:Peteforsyth]] on Wikipedia/Wikimedia
Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf
-- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf
Pete,
Great point re the possibility that people could offer Wikipedia, etc., courses for a fee.
In that case, I would think that the proposed legislation would apply.
Wouldn't it apply to for-profit/service-for-fee activities only?
Best, Daniel
On Jan 30, 2014 7:18 PM, "Pete Forsyth" peteforsyth@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Karen and Ben,
I appreciate especially the bit about the $2500 threshold. Also, Leigh Honeywell posted a helpful quote from the agency's descriptoin of its mission: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2014-January/004154.html
I think this is worth keeping an eye on, because (while unlikely) it's not inconceivable to me that somebody might offer a course on Wikipedia (probably bundled with some other topics) that exceeds that cost threshold. I generally present events I produce, whether one-off or ongoing, as offering an opportunity to learn something; and I think formal instruction combined with peer learning can be a potent combination.
More on all that here, for anybody interested: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2014-January/004155.html
But, I think it's safe to say that the $2500 threshold addresses any potential urgency around this :)
-Pete
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net wrote:
I doubt if we have anything to worry about -- or someone would be chasing after the entire MeetUp world. The article is very vague but my sense is that the state of CA is going after folks who claim to be "schools," who charge $$, and run courses with at least a pass/fail outcome and some concept of an earned certificate. That's a far cry from folks getting together from time to time to teach each other stuff.
kc
On 1/30/14, 5:03 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote:
All,
I read this article with some concern. Thoughts?
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/29/california-regulator- seeks-to-shut-down-learn-to-code-bootcamps/
Of course, hackathons and editathons in the Wikimedia space are typically offered for free, but I don't know from the article whether that makes a difference. (The article doesn't have anything to say about what "compliance" entails.)
Interested in learning more about what's going on here.
Pete
Pete Forsyth Principal, Wiki Strategies [[User:Peteforsyth]] on Wikipedia/Wikimedia
Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf
-- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf
Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf
wikimedia-sf@lists.wikimedia.org