Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially informed, by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction, with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with by AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred more than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations made by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked and very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its middle, overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can appeal to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially informed, by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction, with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with by AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred more than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations made by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked and very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its middle, overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can appeal to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Paulo,
You said you got your information from a WMF source. Right? Is there no possibility for you to ask the same WMF source who to direct this question to? Have you tried to ask AffCom, WMF SuSa or the community engagement team?
In any case, I wish you all the best.
Isaac
On Mon, May 6, 2019, 10:20 AM Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction, with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Hello Isaac,
Thank's a lot for your message. The affiliate I belong to has already requested more details on that sanction. However, from the information already provided, it is directly related to an AffCom resolution dating back from 8 April 2018, without any relation to me.
For the moment I am not requesting anything to AffCom, as AffCom has not even had the decency of informing me of the sanction, and I had to know about it by 3rd parties in a very embarrassing and outrageous situation. Also, after several situations where the AffCom was caught distorting the truth, when not blatantly lying, as it is now, always failing to substantiate their accusations when requested, I do not deem it to be a trustworthy body - and the fact that AffCom was left unchecked and unaccountable for years, even empowered to decide itself its own members, certainly is not alien to this state of affairs. So I'm not presuming good faith on AFfCom as well, and I'm requesting a formal investigation on this and former similar situations involving AffCom.
I do not care much about the sanction itself, though it is quite annoying, especially to my affiliate, but the fact that it was decided in secrecy, and its blatant fraudulent nature, with false accusations involving my person, is quite enraging and outrageous.
Best, Paulo
Isaac Olatunde reachout2isaac@gmail.com escreveu no dia terça, 7/05/2019 à(s) 09:54:
Hi Paulo,
You said you got your information from a WMF source. Right? Is there no possibility for you to ask the same WMF source who to direct this question to? Have you tried to ask AffCom, WMF SuSa or the community engagement team?
In any case, I wish you all the best.
Isaac
On Mon, May 6, 2019, 10:20 AM Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
of a
need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
all
suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was under some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I was not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really would like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me there which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and internal inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction, with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was under some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I was not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really would like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me there which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and internal inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
of a
need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
all
suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of Trustees but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was under some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I was not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really would like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me there which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and internal inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
of a
need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
all
suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
with
suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
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Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep the discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of Trustees but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
under
some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I
was
not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
would
like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me there which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
internal
inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
substantiated.
AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
of a
need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
Wikimedia
Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
(both
affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
all
suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
with
suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
Ombudsman
Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
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Hi Cornelius,
Thank you for the information.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:14 PM Cornelius Kibelka < cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep the discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
under
some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I
was
not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
would
like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me there which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
internal
inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
dealt
with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
appalling
behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
substantiated.
AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
excuse
of a
need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
Wikimedia
Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
(both
affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one
can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
above
all
suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
with
suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
Ombudsman
Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so that I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a fraudulent and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles & Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the BoT can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the current light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely powerful entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and issuing decrees without following even the most basic principles of due process. And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It affects directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last year by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer finally looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole situation even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything with the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why it was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt me come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep the discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
under
some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I
was
not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
would
like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me there which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
internal
inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
dealt
with
by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
occurred
more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
appalling
behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
accusations
made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
substantiated.
AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
excuse
of a
need for secrecy.
How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
Wikimedia
Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
unchecked
and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
(both
affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one
can
appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
above
all
suspicion?
Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
with
suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
Ombudsman
Commission?
Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
Paulo - DarwIn Wikimedia Portugal _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od Trustees, as Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com napisał(a):
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so that I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a fraudulent and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles & Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the BoT can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the current light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely powerful entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and issuing decrees without following even the most basic principles of due process. And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It affects directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last year by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer finally looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole situation even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything with the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why it was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt me come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep
the
discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well,
apart
from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
under
some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates
I
was
not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
would
like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I actually want to know who planted the false information about me
there
which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
internal
inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that
more
transparency and accountability would be good.
On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello, > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
officially
informed, > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
sanction,
> with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless
and
> fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
dealt
with
by > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
occurred
more > than one year ago. I was never informed of this. > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
appalling
> behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
accusations
made > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
substantiated.
> AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
excuse
of a
> need for secrecy. > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
Wikimedia
> Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
unchecked
and > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in
its
middle, > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
(both
> affiliates and individuals) and the WMF? > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one
can
appeal > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
above
all
> suspicion? > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
Foundation
> over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we
do
with
> suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
Ombudsman
> Commission? > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this, > > Paulo - DarwIn > Wikimedia Portugal > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hello Tomasz,
Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how can one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can get back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for investigation.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 15:57:
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od Trustees, as Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com napisał(a):
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so
that
I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
fraudulent
and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles & Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the
BoT
can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the current light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely powerful entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and issuing decrees without following even the most basic principles of due process. And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It affects directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last
year
by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
finally
looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole situation even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything
with
the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why it was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt
me
come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep
the
discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement
such
like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well,
apart
from having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I
was
under
some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
affiliates
I
was
not part of and episotes I do not took part.
This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
really
would
like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
reverted, I
actually want to know who planted the false information about me
there
which led to this situation.
I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
internal
inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
Best, Paulo
Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 10:20:
> > > > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that
more
> transparency and accountability would be good. > > > > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
officially
> informed, > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction, > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless
and
> > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
dealt
with > by > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
occurred
> more > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this. > > > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
appalling
> > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
accusations
> made > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
substantiated.
> > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
excuse
of a > > need for secrecy. > > > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
Wikimedia
> > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
unchecked
> and > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in
its
> middle, > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of
us
(both
> > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF? > > > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where
one
can
> appeal > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive, > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
above
all > > suspicion? > > > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way
we
do
with > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
Ombudsman
> > Commission? > > > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this, > > > > Paulo - DarwIn > > Wikimedia Portugal > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact Board, but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are still brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in some cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some good luck you may land on the page, where there is some contact information :-)
Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is tailored rather to impress than to provide any information, and go to meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can contact them as usually on wiki.
Good luck,
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com napisał(a):
Hello Tomasz,
Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how can one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can get back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for investigation.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 15:57:
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od Trustees,
as
Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com napisał(a):
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so
that
I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
fraudulent
and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles & Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the
BoT
can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
current
light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
powerful
entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
issuing
decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
process.
And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
affects
directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last
year
by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
finally
looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
situation
even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything
with
the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why
it
was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt
me
come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you
keep
the
discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would
be
great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement
such
like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide
more
details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paulo,
This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well,
apart
> from > having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I
was
under
> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
affiliates
I
was
> not part of and episotes I do not took part. > > This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from
the
> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
really
would
> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
reverted, I
> actually want to know who planted the false information about me
there
> which led to this situation. > > I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand
and
internal
> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation. > > Best, > Paulo > > > > > > Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia
segunda,
> 6/05/2019 > à(s) 10:20: > > > > > > > > > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree
that
more
> > transparency and accountability would be good. > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulosperneta@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
officially
> > informed, > > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
unknown
> sanction, > > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
baseless
and
> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
affiliates,
dealt
> with > > by > > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
occurred
> > more > > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this. > > > > > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
appalling
> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
accusations
> > made > > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
substantiated.
> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with
the
excuse
> of a > > > need for secrecy. > > > > > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
Wikimedia
> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
unchecked
> > and > > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this
in
its
> > middle, > > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all
of
us
(both
> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF? > > > > > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where
one
can
> > appeal > > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
secretive,
> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to
be
above
> all > > > suspicion? > > > > > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
Wikimedia
> Foundation > > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way
we
do
> with > > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
Ombudsman
> > > Commission? > > > > > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this, > > > > > > Paulo - DarwIn > > > Wikimedia Portugal > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> , > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
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,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi Tomasz,
Thank you very much for the information. It is quite unexpected that the Board of Trustees can't be officially reached in any way, and we have to try to find our way individually to one and each of the trustees, until one of them accepts the hot potato in their hands (or not).
I wonder how all this got to this point.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 17:01:
As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact Board, but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are still brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in some cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some good luck you may land on the page, where there is some contact information :-)
Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is tailored rather to impress than to provide any information, and go to meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can contact them as usually on wiki.
Good luck,
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com napisał(a):
Hello Tomasz,
Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how can one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can get back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for
investigation.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 15:57:
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od
Trustees,
as
Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <paulosperneta@gmail.com
napisał(a):
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom,
I
really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so
that
I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
fraudulent
and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles & Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if
the
BoT
can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
current
light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
powerful
entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
issuing
decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
process.
And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
affects
directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made
last
year
by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
finally
looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation
and
request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
situation
even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind
everything
with
the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why
it
was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction
aganitt
me
come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you
keep
the
discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles & Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would
be
great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the
movement
such
like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board
of
Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide
more
details.
Best, Kiril
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Paulo, > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that
too.
> > Best, > Kiril > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as
well,
apart
>> from >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it
I
was
under >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
affiliates
I
was >> not part of and episotes I do not took part. >> >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from
the
>> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
really
would >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
reverted, I
>> actually want to know who planted the false information about
me
there
>> which led to this situation. >> >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand
and
internal >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation. >> >> Best, >> Paulo >> >> >> >> >> >> Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia
segunda,
>> 6/05/2019 >> à(s) 10:20: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree
that
more
>> > transparency and accountability would be good. >> > >> > >> > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta < >> paulosperneta@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hello, >> > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
officially
>> > informed, >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
unknown
>> sanction, >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
baseless
and
>> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
affiliates,
dealt
>> with >> > by >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part
of,
occurred >> > more >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this. >> > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
appalling
>> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations >> > made >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated. >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with
the
excuse
>> of a >> > > need for secrecy. >> > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come
the
Wikimedia >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary,
apparently
unchecked >> > and >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like
this
in
its
>> > middle, >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all
of
us
(both >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF? >> > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this?
Where
one
can
>> > appeal >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
secretive,
>> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed
to
be
above
>> all >> > > suspicion? >> > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
Wikimedia
>> Foundation >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same
way
we
do
>> with >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with
the
Ombudsman >> > > Commission? >> > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this, >> > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn >> > > Wikimedia Portugal >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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?subject=unsubscribe>
-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
e.
V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hey Paulo
I imagine many of the board are following this. I am fairly easy to get a hold of with the "email this user" attached to my user pages. And you can always leave me a note on Wikipedia itself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James
Maria Sefidari and Nataliia Tymkiv are the two WMF board members who directly oversee Affcom's work. We also have the Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard
Affcom sends the board a detailed overview of their work each month. I am not aware of the specifics of your case but will ask for further details.
Best James
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 10:08 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tomasz,
Thank you very much for the information. It is quite unexpected that the Board of Trustees can't be officially reached in any way, and we have to try to find our way individually to one and each of the trustees, until one of them accepts the hot potato in their hands (or not).
I wonder how all this got to this point.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 17:01:
As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact Board, but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are still brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in some cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some good luck you may land on the page, where there is some contact information
:-)
Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is tailored rather to impress than to provide any information, and go to meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can
contact
them as usually on wiki.
Good luck,
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com napisał(a):
Hello Tomasz,
Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how
can
one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can
get
back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for
investigation.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 15:57:
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od
Trustees,
as
Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the
top
body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com
napisał(a):
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of
AffCom,
I
really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom,
so
that
I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
fraudulent
and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles & Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if
the
BoT
can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
current
light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
powerful
entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
issuing
decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
process.
And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
affects
directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of
the
affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made
last
year
by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
finally
looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation
and
request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
situation
even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind
everything
with
the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out
of
process, and against the most elementary principles of Human
Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and
why
it
was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction
aganitt
me
come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
Hi all,
I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest
you
keep
the
discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the
Roles &
Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it
would
be
great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
Best regards Cornelius
On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote:
> P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the
movement
such
> like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board
of
Trustees > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can
provide
more
> details. > > Best, > Kiril > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < > kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Paulo, > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that
too.
> > > > Best, > > Kiril > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as
well,
apart
> >> from > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed
it
I
was
> under > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
affiliates
I
> was > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part. > >> > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior
from
the
> >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
really
> would > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
reverted, I
> >> actually want to know who planted the false information
about
me
there
> >> which led to this situation. > >> > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially
demand
and
> internal > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation. > >> > >> Best, > >> Paulo > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia
segunda,
> >> 6/05/2019 > >> à(s) 10:20: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree
that
more
> >> > transparency and accountability would be good. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta < > >> paulosperneta@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hello, > >> > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
officially
> >> > informed, > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
unknown
> >> sanction, > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
baseless
and
> >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
affiliates,
dealt > >> with > >> > by > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part
of,
> occurred > >> > more > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this. > >> > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort
of
appalling > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for
the
> accusations > >> > made > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be > substantiated. > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that,
with
the
excuse > >> of a > >> > > need for secrecy. > >> > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come
the
> Wikimedia > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary,
apparently
> unchecked > >> > and > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like
this
in
its
> >> > middle, > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of
all
of
us
> (both > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF? > >> > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this?
Where
one
can > >> > appeal > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
secretive,
> >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed
to
be
above > >> all > >> > > suspicion? > >> > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
Wikimedia
> >> Foundation > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same
way
we
do
> >> with > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with
the
> Ombudsman > >> > > Commission? > >> > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this, > >> > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > >> , > >> > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > >> > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
-- Cornelius Kibelka Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
e.
V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt
für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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?subject=unsubscribe>
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi James,
Thank you very much for your reply and heads-ups. I'll contact you in private, by email, if you don't mind.
Best, Paulo
James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com escreveu no dia terça, 7/05/2019 à(s) 00:09:
Hey Paulo
I imagine many of the board are following this. I am fairly easy to get a hold of with the "email this user" attached to my user pages. And you can always leave me a note on Wikipedia itself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James
Maria Sefidari and Nataliia Tymkiv are the two WMF board members who directly oversee Affcom's work. We also have the Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard
Affcom sends the board a detailed overview of their work each month. I am not aware of the specifics of your case but will ask for further details.
Best James
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 10:08 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tomasz,
Thank you very much for the information. It is quite unexpected that the Board of Trustees can't be officially reached in any way, and we have to try to find our way individually to one and each of the trustees, until
one
of them accepts the hot potato in their hands (or not).
I wonder how all this got to this point.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 17:01:
As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact
Board,
but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are
still
brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in
some
cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some
good
luck you may land on the page, where there is some contact information
:-)
Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is tailored rather to impress than to provide any information, and go to meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can
contact
them as usually on wiki.
Good luck,
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta <paulosperneta@gmail.com
napisał(a):
Hello Tomasz,
Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how
can
one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can
get
back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for
investigation.
Regards, Paulo
Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda,
6/05/2019
à(s) 15:57:
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od
Trustees,
as
Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the
top
body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta@gmail.com
napisał(a):
Hi Cornelius,
Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of
AffCom,
I
really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the
AFfCom,
so
that
I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
fraudulent
and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the
Roles &
Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as
if
the
BoT
can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
current
light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
powerful
entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
issuing
decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
process.
And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
affects
directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community
not
connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of
the
affiliates involved in that case.
And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made
last
year
by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a
lawyer
finally
looked into them, he come out with exactly the same
recommendation
and
request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
situation
even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind
everything
with
the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely
out
of
process, and against the most elementary principles of Human
Rights.
I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and
why
it
was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction
aganitt
me
come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
To who should I complaint about this?
Paulo
Cornelius Kibelka cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de escreveu no
dia
segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
> Hi all, > > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest
you
keep
the > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the
Roles &
> Responsibility scoping document talk page: > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/201...
> > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it
would
be
> great if you could add your opinion and experience there as
well.
> > Best regards > Cornelius > > > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski < > kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the
movement
such
> > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the
Board
of
> Trustees > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can
provide
more
> > details. > > > > Best, > > Kiril > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski < > > kiril.simeonovski@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Paulo, > > > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out
that
too.
> > > > > > Best, > > > Kiril > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > > > paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as
well,
apart > > >> from > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed
it
I
was
> > under > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
affiliates
I > > was > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part. > > >> > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior
from
the
> > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in
particular. I
really
> > would > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
reverted, I
> > >> actually want to know who planted the false information
about
me
there > > >> which led to this situation. > > >> > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially
demand
and
> > internal > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this
situation.
> > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Paulo > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia
segunda,
> > >> 6/05/2019 > > >> à(s) 10:20: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I
agree
that
more > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta < > > >> paulosperneta@gmail.com> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > > >> > > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially > > >> > informed, > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
unknown
> > >> sanction, > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
baseless
and > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
affiliates,
> dealt > > >> with > > >> > by > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never
part
of,
> > occurred > > >> > more > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this. > > >> > > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort
of
> appalling > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for
the
> > accusations > > >> > made > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to
be
> > substantiated. > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that,
with
the
> excuse > > >> of a > > >> > > need for secrecy. > > >> > > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how
come
the
> > Wikimedia > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary,
apparently
> > unchecked > > >> > and > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like
this
in
its > > >> > middle, > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of
all
of
us
> > (both > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF? > > >> > > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this?
Where
one
> can > > >> > appeal > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
secretive,
> > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was
supposed
to
be
> above > > >> all > > >> > > suspicion? > > >> > > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
Wikimedia
> > >> Foundation > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the
same
way
we
do > > >> with > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors,
with
the
> > Ombudsman > > >> > > Commission? > > >> > > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this, > > >> > > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > >> , > > >> > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > >> > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > -- > Cornelius Kibelka > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 > http://wikimedia.de > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der
Menge
allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/ > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien
Wissens
e.
V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt
für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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?subject=unsubscribe>
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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