Certainly, once we pick a date and time, I can send a Google Meet link,
which allows up to 250 participants, so absolutely anyone is welcome to
join.
Thank you, Masssly, for that relevant recording! I hadn't known about it.
A.
Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)
Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 7:57 PM Mohammed Sadat Abdulai <masssly(a)ymail.com>
wrote:
The deletion process can get quite complex, I know
many folks get
discouraged by it. My experience in the matter has been to avoid a
defensive stance although the entity might be * clearly * notable. It
works sometimes for me :)
Since this is obviously a matter many people struggle with, other folks
are probably going to want to join the call too.
@Justice Okai-Allotey <owulakpakpo(a)gmail.com> Might you be interested to
organize something larger so Asaf can talk to the community at large.
If this doesn’t happen, A+F recorded a session recently about “engaging in
deletion discussion” that could be helpful to many:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Art_%2B_Feminism_Community_Hours_-_…
-Masssly
*From: *Asaf Bartov <abartov(a)wikimedia.org>
*Sent: *Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:47 PM
*To: *Wikimedia Ghana User Group <wikimedia-gh(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
*Subject: *Re: [Wikimedia-GH] Deletion of Article
Okay, yes, let's separate these two issues, because they are actually
quite distinct:
1. Notability is a yes/no question, which needs to be established (just
once, for the entire lifetime of the article) using only reliable sources,
dealing directly with the subject, but independent of the article subject.
(This was also covered in the training in Ghana.)
2. NPOV, on the other hand, is *not* a yes/no question, but a general bar
you have to meet *in each and every sentence of the article* (except inside
quotations etc.), and that can rely on all sorts of sources and even no
sources at all. (e.g. "X is a Ghanaian singer" is perfectly *neutral* even
without sources. It won't be enough to establish *notability*, but those
are separate questions.)
I deliberately asked about NPOV, because I recognize that Notability is
made tougher to establish for African subjects because of relative paucity
of sources on the one hand, and possible bias on the other hand. This
person may or may not be notable -- I have no idea and haven't done
research myself -- but it is concerning that your article was also found to
be promotional. The reason I am concerned is that *even though* the two
questions are logically distinct and, properly, should be judged
separately, in practice if a patroller sees an article with what they
perceive as a blatantly promotional tone, they *would* be a lot more
suspicious of the article's notability as well.
So, you can obtain the article text via [[WP:UND]], and then we can
perhaps schedule a call to rebiew it and have a discussion, and either fix
it if it needs fixing, or learn from it if it can't be fixed and look for
more notable subjects. I am generally flexible these days, and am in the
UTC+3 time zone. Are there days/times that would be particularly
convenient for you (plural, any of you who may be interested)?
A.
*Asaf Bartov *(he/him/his)
Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM Justice Okai-Allotey <
owulakpakpo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Asaf,
Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael
Aboya and no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of
notability from what I saw about him online.
Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I
sent it to a few experienced editors in our community to check my text if I
had missed something and from the response, I got it wasn't promotional.
For Michael Aboya I found so many articles from secondary sources speaking
about him but it still got deleted because to those editors he should have
done something major. He won a global photography competition so I thought
that is something noteworthy to write about.
I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has
more to do with Notability and how to determine it within the several
contexts.
Regards,
Justice.
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov <abartov(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for
myself. But there was mention of promotional language in the discussion
about Michael Aboya, at least. Was there indeed promotional language? If
so, how come? I know for a fact you know how to write NPOV text, because I
remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the room. Was
indeed a paid editing job? Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV
language?
(If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this
again -- perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make
sure future efforts of yours don't end up with text that is
encyclopedically unacceptable.)
I'm interested in helping resolve this. Obviously, resolving this can't
require breaking Wikipedia's rules, though.
Cheers,
A.
*Asaf Bartov *(he/him/his)
Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey <
owulakpakpo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my
articles (User:Owula kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor (
User:Versace1608 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Versace1608>) and
other editors like (User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about
getting articles his written tagged for deletion.
In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the
future and how we can settle issues of notability criteria within our
contest as Ghanaians. Another volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be
shared here so we can properly document such discussions for later.
Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free
to add any further information to this discussion so we can properly deal
with it moving forward.
Regards,
Justice.
[1]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4b…
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah>
[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana
[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh
[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya
--
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Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey
|Avenger - Urithi Labs <https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/>|
|Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group
<https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/>|
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