Hello Justice,

It's frustrating for an article to be deleted after several hours (or days) of work. I am sorry to learn about this particular deletion.

You can ask for the content to be restored as a draft or emailed to you so that it can be improved upon prior to submitting it again (assuming the only issue is the "promotional tone").[1]

"It's been deleted before" is certainly not a valid reason for deletion but it does looks like the content was indeed promotional at least from the comments of several experienced editors (including an administrator) who commented on the AfD

In the future, if a page is AfD'd, it's not advisable to jump in to argue that it should be kept immediately. Consider that the nominator and others arguing for it to be deleted might be right. So, try to review the article again and remove what might appears to be a "peacock tone", then look for more sources that establish the subject's notability and add it to the article prior to commenting on the deletion discussion.

If you just go to the AfD to argue without doing what I mentioned above, chances are that some AfD patrollers would review the problematic or promotional version and support deletion and may cause others to just pile-on.

Regards

Isaac

[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Refund&redirect=no

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020, 15:13 Justice Okai-Allotey, owulakpakpo@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Asaf,

Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael Aboya and no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of notability from what I saw about him online.

Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I sent it to a few experienced editors in our community to check my text if I had missed something and from the response, I got it wasn't promotional. For Michael Aboya I found so many articles from secondary sources speaking about him but it still got deleted because to those editors he should have done something major. He won a global photography competition so I thought that is something noteworthy to write about.

I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has more to do with Notability and how to determine it within the several contexts.

Regards, Justice.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for myself. But there was mention of promotional language in the discussion about Michael Aboya, at least. Was there indeed promotional language? If so, how come? I know for a fact you know how to write NPOV text, because I remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the room. Was indeed a paid editing job? Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV language?

(If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this again -- perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make sure future efforts of yours don't end up with text that is encyclopedically unacceptable.)

I'm interested in helping resolve this. Obviously, resolving this can't require breaking Wikipedia's rules, though.

Cheers,

A.

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)

Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities

Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi All,

I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my articles (User:Owula kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor ( User:Versace1608 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Versace1608) and other editors like (User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about getting articles his written tagged for deletion.

In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the future and how we can settle issues of notability criteria within our contest as Ghanaians. Another volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be shared here so we can properly document such discussions for later.

Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free to add any further information to this discussion so we can properly deal with it moving forward.

Regards, Justice.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bo... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya

-- *Regards* *Justice Okai-Allotey* *Freelance Digital Marketer*

Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey

|Avenger - Urithi Labs https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/| |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/| |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo | |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey https://about.me/okai-allotey*|

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

-- *Regards* *Justice Okai-Allotey* *Freelance Digital Marketer*

Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey

|Avenger - Urithi Labs https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/| |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/| |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo | |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey https://about.me/okai-allotey*|

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

Hi Asaf,

I have requested for the deleted article sent to me, I would be glad to have a call with you to go over that once I receive the emailed texts.

For me, due to the COVID-19 situation, I am available from 12 pm to 6 pm GMT Monday - Friday of each week. For the day it would depend on when I receive the emailed text.

I would find the right time and fix it into your UTC +3 timezone.

Regards, Justice.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:47 PM Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:

Okay, yes, let's separate these two issues, because they are actually quite distinct:

1. Notability is a yes/no question, which needs to be established (just

once, for the entire lifetime of the article) using only reliable sources, dealing directly with the subject, but independent of the article subject. (This was also covered in the training in Ghana.)

2. NPOV, on the other hand, is *not* a yes/no question, but a general bar

you have to meet *in each and every sentence of the article* (except inside quotations etc.), and that can rely on all sorts of sources and even no sources at all. (e.g. "X is a Ghanaian singer" is perfectly *neutral* even without sources. It won't be enough to establish *notability*, but those are separate questions.)

I deliberately asked about NPOV, because I recognize that Notability is made tougher to establish for African subjects because of relative paucity of sources on the one hand, and possible bias on the other hand. This person may or may not be notable -- I have no idea and haven't done research myself -- but it is concerning that your article was also found to be promotional. The reason I am concerned is that *even though* the two questions are logically distinct and, properly, should be judged separately, in practice if a patroller sees an article with what they perceive as a blatantly promotional tone, they *would* be a lot more suspicious of the article's notability as well.

So, you can obtain the article text via [[WP:UND]], and then we can perhaps schedule a call to rebiew it and have a discussion, and either fix it if it needs fixing, or learn from it if it can't be fixed and look for more notable subjects. I am generally flexible these days, and am in the UTC+3 time zone. Are there days/times that would be particularly convenient for you (plural, any of you who may be interested)?

A.

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)

Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities

Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Asaf,

Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael Aboya and no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of notability from what I saw about him online.

Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I sent it to a few experienced editors in our community to check my text if I had missed something and from the response, I got it wasn't promotional. For Michael Aboya I found so many articles from secondary sources speaking about him but it still got deleted because to those editors he should have done something major. He won a global photography competition so I thought that is something noteworthy to write about.

I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has more to do with Notability and how to determine it within the several contexts.

Regards, Justice.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for myself. But there was mention of promotional language in the discussion about Michael Aboya, at least. Was there indeed promotional language? If so, how come? I know for a fact you know how to write NPOV text, because I remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the room. Was indeed a paid editing job? Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV language?

(If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this again -- perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make sure future efforts of yours don't end up with text that is encyclopedically unacceptable.)

I'm interested in helping resolve this. Obviously, resolving this can't require breaking Wikipedia's rules, though.

Cheers,

A.

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)

Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities

Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey < owulakpakpo@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi All,

I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my articles (User:Owula kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor ( User:Versace1608 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Versace1608) and other editors like (User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about getting articles his written tagged for deletion.

In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the future and how we can settle issues of notability criteria within our contest as Ghanaians. Another volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be shared here so we can properly document such discussions for later.

Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free to add any further information to this discussion so we can properly deal with it moving forward.

Regards, Justice.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bo... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bonah [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya

-- *Regards* *Justice Okai-Allotey* *Freelance Digital Marketer*

Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey

|Avenger - Urithi Labs https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/| |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/| |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo | |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey https://about.me/okai-allotey*|

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

-- *Regards* *Justice Okai-Allotey* *Freelance Digital Marketer*

Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey

|Avenger - Urithi Labs https://www.facebook.com/urithimedia/| |Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaGhanaUG/| |Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.linkedin.com/in/justice-okai-allotey-306b6354?trk=hp-identity-name | Facebook: Justice Okai-Allotey https://www.facebook.com/wyzzlewany | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo https://twitter.com/Owula_Kpakpo | |Website: *https://about.me/okai-allotey https://about.me/okai-allotey* |

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

---

Wikimedia-GH mailing list Wikimedia-GH@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-gh

The deletion process can get quite complex, I know many folks get discouraged by it. My experience in the matter has been to avoid a defensive stance although the entity might be * clearly * notable. It works sometimes for me :)

Since this is obviously a matter many people struggle with, other folks are probably going to want to join the call too.

@Justice Okai-Allotey Might you be interested to organize something larger so Asaf can talk to the community at large.

If this doesn’t happen, A+F recorded a session recently about “engaging in deletion discussion” that could be helpful to many: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Art_%2B_Feminism_Community_Hours_-_D...

-Masssly

From: Asaf Bartov Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:47 PM To: Wikimedia Ghana User Group Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-GH] Deletion of Article

Okay, yes, let's separate these two issues, because they are actually quite distinct:

1. Notability is a yes/no question, which needs to be established (just once, for the entire lifetime of the article) using only reliable sources, dealing directly with the subject, but independent of the article subject.  (This was also covered in the training in Ghana.)

2. NPOV, on the other hand, is *not* a yes/no question, but a general bar you have to meet *in each and every sentence of the article* (except inside quotations etc.), and that can rely on all sorts of sources and even no sources at all.  (e.g. "X is a Ghanaian singer" is perfectly *neutral* even without sources.  It won't be enough to establish *notability*, but those are separate questions.)

I deliberately asked about NPOV, because I recognize that Notability is made tougher to establish for African subjects because of relative paucity of sources on the one hand, and possible bias on the other hand.  This person may or may not be notable -- I have no idea and haven't done research myself -- but it is concerning that your article was also found to be promotional.  The reason I am concerned is that *even though* the two questions are logically distinct and, properly, should be judged separately, in practice if a patroller sees an article with what they perceive as a blatantly promotional tone, they *would* be a lot more suspicious of the article's notability as well.

So, you can obtain the article text via [[WP:UND]], and then we can perhaps schedule a call to rebiew it and have a discussion, and either fix it if it needs fixing, or learn from it if it can't be fixed and look for more notable subjects.  I am generally flexible these days, and am in the UTC+3 time zone.  Are there days/times that would be particularly convenient for you (plural, any of you who may be interested)?

A.

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his) Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM Justice Okai-Allotey owulakpakpo@gmail.com wrote: Hi Asaf,

Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael Aboya and no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of notability from what I saw about him online.

Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I sent it to a few experienced editors in our community to check my text if I had missed something and from the response, I got it wasn't promotional. For Michael Aboya I found so many articles from secondary sources speaking about him but it still got deleted because to those editors he should have done something major. He won a global photography competition so I thought that is something noteworthy to write about.

I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has more to do with Notability and how to determine it within the several contexts.

Regards, Justice.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote: As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for myself.  But there was mention of promotional language in the discussion about Michael Aboya, at least.  Was there indeed promotional language?  If so, how come?  I know for a fact you know how to write NPOV text, because I remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the room.  Was indeed a paid editing job?  Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV language?

(If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this again -- perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make sure future efforts of yours don't end up with text that is encyclopedically unacceptable.)

I'm interested in helping resolve this.  Obviously, resolving this can't require breaking Wikipedia's rules, though.

Cheers,

A.

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his) Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey owulakpakpo@gmail.com wrote: Hi All,

I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my articles (User:Owula kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor (User:Versace1608) and other editors like (User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about getting articles his written tagged for deletion.

In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the future and how we can settle issues of notability criteria within our contest as Ghanaians. Another volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be shared here so we can properly document such discussions for later.

Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free to add any further information to this discussion so we can properly deal with it moving forward.

Regards, Justice.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4bo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya