Geocoordinates in upload form

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Elisardo

15 Jul 2011 15 Jul '11

12:06 a.m.

Hi to all. This days I have reviewed the Spanish lists, and I noticed that we don't have a lot of monument's coordinates because It's a hard work and we only have a few people working with this stuff. Then I have a proposal to get this coordinates from the participants of the contest. I know that the idea in the upload form is to make it simple, but I think that we could add to the form an optional section to introduce this information. This information only needs two entry fields to fill the decimal geocoordinates, the same that are in the lists, and if this information is correctly pointed as optional, I think that it won't increase the complexity of the upload form. All this only in the case that did not affect to the development in time of the upload form, of course. I had thought that it could generate a secondary price at some national contest, the person who had geolocalizated more of his photos of monuments that didn't had it before. But, It's only a proposal... Elisardojm

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Jane Darnell

15 Jul 15 Jul

8:51 a.m.

Hmm. That brings to mind the fact that modern camera's have a GIS system built in -- does the upload form harvest this info?Technically speaking, this is not the coordinates of the monument, but of the viewpoint of the camera, which is often close enough! 2011/7/15 Elisardo <elisardojm(a)gmail.com>

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Tomasz Ganicz

9:05 a.m.

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

But not always. You take sometimes a picture from a quite distance. See for example: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_Florence_St_Maria_del_Fiore_1.… So, to make it proper - the uploader should insert both - the possition of photographer and possion of the monument. I think the upload form could have some "advanced" options, which are not obligatory, bu the uploader can fill them if he/she needs, and we can encourage people to do this. The form can be very simple in its basic form and have "more options" button just like reference tool in Wikipedia. -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

Jan Ainali

9:15 a.m.

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

Jane Darnell

9:19 a.m.

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Jan Ainali

9:28 a.m.

Well, the EXIF coordinates I believe the bot put in a Template:Location (that's for camera location). The monuments themselves should be mapped towards Template:Object location. If we already have the locations for the monuments, then the user should only need to worry about what monument was photographed and we should work some magic in the background to poulate the object location template. -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

Hmm. That brings to mind the fact that modern camera's have a GIS

system

built in -- does the upload form harvest this info?Technically

speaking,

this is not the coordinates of the monument, but of the viewpoint of

the

camera, which is often close enough!

Jane Darnell

10:07 a.m.

Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it, but do I understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets stuffed into a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? Because that way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS coordinates (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for the countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this info into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS coordinates for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing Jane 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se>

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: > Hmm. That brings to mind the fact that modern camera's have a GIS system > built in -- does the upload form harvest this info?Technically speaking, > this is not the coordinates of the monument, but of the viewpoint of the > camera, which is often close enough! > But not always. You take sometimes a picture from a quite distance. See for example: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_Florence_St_Maria_del_Fiore_1.… So, to make it proper - the uploader should insert both - the possition of photographer and possion of the monument. I think the upload form could have some "advanced" options, which are not obligatory, bu the uploader can fill them if he/she needs, and we can encourage people to do this. The form can be very simple in its basic form and have "more options" button just like reference tool in Wikipedia. -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Jan Ainali

10:20 a.m.

Yes, automatically as in when User:DschwenBot decides to run the bot, which right now is daily. My suggestion would be to not *move *it into Template:Obejct location by a bot. First, it is useful to keep the camera location. Second, we will be fairly certain that for some time, we will have plenty of pictures with an errounus object location. Better would be to just adding the category you suggested and let humans decide when to use that information to make an object location. In an ideal world, each image should have both templates, which could open up to new exciting ways to visualize objects (like walk-arounds, finding viewpoints etc.). -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>

...

AFAIK, if the the coordinates are stored in the EXIF-information of the file, there is a bot on Commons who takes care of covering it to the right template. -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> > 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: > > Hmm. That brings to mind the fact that modern camera's have a GIS > system > > built in -- does the upload form harvest this info?Technically > speaking, > > this is not the coordinates of the monument, but of the viewpoint of > the > > camera, which is often close enough! > > > > But not always. You take sometimes a picture from a quite distance. > See for example: > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_Florence_St_Maria_del_Fiore_1.… > > So, to make it proper - the uploader should insert both - the > possition of photographer and possion of the monument. > > I think the upload form could have some "advanced" options, which are > not obligatory, bu the uploader can fill them if he/she needs, and we > can encourage people to do this. The form can be very simple in its > basic form and have "more options" button just like reference tool in > Wikipedia. > > > -- > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Jane Darnell

10:26 a.m.

Jan, Well that is truly extraordinary and I had no idea this was happening. My compliments to User:DschwenBot!! Back to what I was saying, let me rephrase: I would like a new, country-oriented WLM bot to COPY, not move, the coords to the object location for those countries that do not have it, in order to ease the burden of GIS coordinate input by WLM volunteers. I am trying to find a solution for some of those sorry old lists of monuments. If we can help the heritage organizations do their job better, we can have a great window of opportunity here to showcase our achievements (like User:DschwenBot) Jane 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se>

...

Awesome! Then the next step is trying to use them somehow, while keeping in mind Tomasz' point, i.e. those coordinates could be far away. I really don't like the idea of putting the burden of GIS coordinates on the uploader, unless this EXIF feature is there already. I think the upload form needs to recognize this and ask if those coordinates can be used for the object or better for the camera, or something like that 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> > AFAIK, if the the coordinates are stored in the EXIF-information of the > file, there is a bot on Commons who takes care of covering it to the right > template. > > -- > Med vänliga hälsningar > Jan Ainali > Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> > > 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> > >> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: >> > Hmm. That brings to mind the fact that modern camera's have a GIS >> system >> > built in -- does the upload form harvest this info?Technically >> speaking, >> > this is not the coordinates of the monument, but of the viewpoint of >> the >> > camera, which is often close enough! >> > >> >> But not always. You take sometimes a picture from a quite distance. >> See for example: >> >> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_Florence_St_Maria_del_Fiore_1.… >> >> So, to make it proper - the uploader should insert both - the >> possition of photographer and possion of the monument. >> >> I think the upload form could have some "advanced" options, which are >> not obligatory, bu the uploader can fill them if he/she needs, and we >> can encourage people to do this. The form can be very simple in its >> basic form and have "more options" button just like reference tool in >> Wikipedia. >> >> >> -- >> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Tomasz Ganicz

10:26 a.m.

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Yes: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot Typical recent action of the bot: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%… I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures of monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_… Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For example if the small church in on the corner of the small square - if you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in distance it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place :-) -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

Jane Darnell

10:35 a.m.

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

that

way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS

coordinates

(like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for the countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this info into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS

coordinates

for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing

Jan Ainali

10:40 a.m.

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

that

way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS

coordinates

for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing

-- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida>

Jane Darnell

10:48 a.m.

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

that

way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS

coordinates

for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing

-- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Jan Ainali

11 a.m.

...

2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: > Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it, but do I > understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets stuffed into > a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? Because that > way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS coordinates > (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for the > countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this info > into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS coordinates > for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing Yes: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot Typical recent action of the bot: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%… I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures of monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_… Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For example if the small church in on the corner of the small square - if you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in distance it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place :-) -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Jane Darnell

11:16 a.m.

Yes, but I would like to see a empty hole in the photo template that you can just plop that info into for these monuments - remember, lots of people will be VERY frightened off by that tag and in this specific case, be dazzled by SEVEN options to choose from... 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se>

...

Tomasz, Thanks for those links! As the Dutch say, "now my wooden clog is breaking". Using the wonderful link right there to open street maps, is there a way to ask the user who clicked on the image to update the template:location if it is empty? This way the user just needs to move the geo pointer on the map to the correct location (you probably need google satellite view for this, not open street maps) Jane 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> > 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: > > Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it, but do > I > > understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets stuffed > into > > a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? Because > that > > way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS > coordinates > > (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for the > > countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this > info > > into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS > coordinates > > for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing > > Yes: > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot > > Typical recent action of the bot: > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%… > > > I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a > functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures of > monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large > buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as this: > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_… > > Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the > object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For > example if the small church in on the corner of the small square - if > you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in distance > it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place :-) > > -- > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ > http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Jan Ainali

11:24 a.m.

Yes, I see your point. A dream scenario would be to use the existing tool but make a mashup with the bot. When a user uploads a file with an EXIF coordinate, the map pops up and asks for the photographed object location, centered to the camera location. After the user has dropped the flag on the object the user press Done and everything else would be automated. -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>

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If we find someone who can do some hacking (which I can't) perhaps there is a way to integrate this tool to let the user select the location? http://tools.freeside.sk/geolocator/geolocator.html -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> > Tomasz, > Thanks for those links! As the Dutch say, "now my wooden clog is > breaking". Using the wonderful link right there to open street maps, is > there a way to ask the user who clicked on the image to update the > template:location if it is empty? This way the user just needs to move the > geo pointer on the map to the correct location (you probably need google > satellite view for this, not open street maps) > Jane > > 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> > >> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: >> > Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it, but >> do I >> > understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets stuffed >> into >> > a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? >> Because that >> > way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS >> coordinates >> > (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for the >> > countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this >> info >> > into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS >> coordinates >> > for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing >> >> Yes: >> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot >> >> Typical recent action of the bot: >> >> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%… >> >> >> I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a >> functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures of >> monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large >> buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as this: >> >> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_… >> >> Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the >> object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For >> example if the small church in on the corner of the small square - if >> you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in distance >> it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place :-) >> >> -- >> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Benoît Evellin

11:33 a.m.

Users just need a camera which generates and saves the geocoordinates. How many cameras can do that ? How many users will have a camera like this ? Sorry for breaking the enthusiasm, but don't you think you are designing a feature just for few users, instead of finding a global solution ? ;-) KISS without any specific technology : uploading a photo -> enter the city name -> have a map, with coordinate system (like this ? http://mapper.acme.com/) -> press ok when you are on location. Benoît 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se>se>:

...

OMG OMG!!! (sorry for the enthusiasm) That is the solution right there! You copy&paste the coords from the bot-generated camera location and then that tool zeros right down to street level - I just tried it with the file Tomasz sent me and the adjusted coords are returned in the same format. All we need is a way to copy&paste those back into object location - do we have that? Jane 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> > > If we find someone who can do some hacking (which I can't) perhaps > there is a way to integrate this tool to let the user select the location? > http://tools.freeside.sk/geolocator/geolocator.html > -- > Med vänliga hälsningar > Jan Ainali > Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige > 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >> >> Tomasz, >> Thanks for those links! As the Dutch say, "now my wooden clog is >> breaking". Using the wonderful link right there to open street maps, is >> there a way to ask the user who clicked on the image to update the >> template:location if it is empty? This way the user just needs to move the >> geo pointer on the map to the correct location (you probably need google >> satellite view for this, not open street maps) >> Jane >> 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: >>> > Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it, but >>> > do I >>> > understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets stuffed >>> > into >>> > a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? >>> > Because that >>> > way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS >>> > coordinates >>> > (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for >>> > the >>> > countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this >>> > info >>> > into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS >>> > coordinates >>> > for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing >>> >>> Yes: >>> >>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot >>> >>> Typical recent action of the bot: >>> >>> >>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%… >>> >>> >>> I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a >>> functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures of >>> monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large >>> buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as this: >>> >>> >>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_… >>> >>> Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the >>> object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For >>> example if the small church in on the corner of the small square - if >>> you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in distance >>> it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place :-) >>> >>> -- >>> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >>> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >>> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >>> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > > > > -- > Med vänliga hälsningar > Jan Ainali > Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

-- Benoît Evellin Membre de Wikimédia France www.wikimedia.fr

Jane Darnell

11:52 a.m.

Benoît, I fully agree, but don't forget we have smaller wikipedia-enabled countries taking part who may 1) have fewer participants, but who may have 2) professional photographers who I assume have this function, and who 3) do not have a map (yet) In the situation of 1), I believe we need to just work from the existing lists or even just depend on the uploader's judgement, and make the validation and coords the work of WLM volunteers and not tax the uploader with ANYTHING REMOTELY TECHNICAL, so not even mention GIS In the situation of 2) it would be great to have Jan's "mashup" In the situation of 3) are you offering your services here? I noticed you have a very cool map here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Lists_of_European_Monuments/France Jane 2011/7/15 Benoît Evellin <benoit.evellin(a)wikimedia.fr>

...

location,

centered to the camera location. After the user has dropped the flag on

the

object the user press Done and everything else would be automated. -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> > > Yes, but I would like to see a empty hole in the photo template that you > can just plop that info into for these monuments - remember, lots of

people

> will be VERY frightened off by that tag and in this specific case, be > dazzled by SEVEN options to choose from... > > 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> >> >> Of the seven possible templates to copy back (down to the left on that >> page), the two last ones are object location. >> -- >> Med vänliga hälsningar >> Jan Ainali >> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> OMG OMG!!! (sorry for the enthusiasm) That is the solution right

there!

>>> You copy&paste the coords from the bot-generated camera location and

then

>>> that tool zeros right down to street level - I just tried it with the

file

>>> Tomasz sent me and the adjusted coords are returned in the same

format. All

>>> we need is a way to copy&paste those back into object location - do we

have

>>> that? >>> Jane >>> >>> 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> >>>> >>>> If we find someone who can do some hacking (which I can't) perhaps >>>> there is a way to integrate this tool to let the user select the

location?

>>>> http://tools.freeside.sk/geolocator/geolocator.html >>>> -- >>>> Med vänliga hälsningar >>>> Jan Ainali >>>> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >>>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> Tomasz, >>>>> Thanks for those links! As the Dutch say, "now my wooden clog is >>>>> breaking". Using the wonderful link right there to open street maps,

>>>>> there a way to ask the user who clicked on the image to update the >>>>> template:location if it is empty? This way the user just needs to

move the

>>>>> geo pointer on the map to the correct location (you probably need

google

>>>>> satellite view for this, not open street maps) >>>>> Jane >>>>> 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: >>>>>> > Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it,

but

>>>>>> > do I >>>>>> > understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets

stuffed

>>>>>> > into >>>>>> > a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? >>>>>> > Because that >>>>>> > way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS >>>>>> > coordinates >>>>>> > (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for >>>>>> > the >>>>>> > countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move

this

>>>>>> > info >>>>>> > into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS >>>>>> > coordinates >>>>>> > for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot >>>>>> >>>>>> Typical recent action of the bot: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%…

>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a >>>>>> functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures

>>>>>> monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large >>>>>> buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as

this:

>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_…

>>>>>> >>>>>> Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the >>>>>> object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For >>>>>> example if the small church in on the corner of the small square -

>>>>>> you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in

distance

>>>>>> it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place

:-)

>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >>>> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >>>> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >>>> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> >> >> >> -- >> Med vänliga hälsningar >> Jan Ainali >> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

-- Benoît Evellin Membre de Wikimédia France www.wikimedia.fr _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Nuno Tavares

17 Jul 17 Jul

12:04 a.m.

Hi all, Yes, I agree with Benoit. Have you experimented with: http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org.pt/tools/plist/?program=&region=Lisbo… If you click on the right-side in the tool icon you will be presented with a "fix coordinate" page, which allows to do what I understood both Benoit and Jane were suggesting - please do not "submit" the coordinate if you're testing... This could be added to the upload form, in a way that: if there is no coordinate in the object (we know that because we are linked with the database) prompt the user to pinpoint it somewhere, starting with a location suggested by google - based on municipality, district, region, country. At that tool I pointed, you can copy&paste a google maps link, or manual coordinates... something like that I believe it would sufficient (read: intuitive) for the user. But hey, I'm a techie... -- Nuno Tavares Wikimedia Portugal http://www.wikimedia.pt Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer. Participe também: http://www.wikimedia.pt Em 15-07-2011 12:33, Benoît Evellin escreveu:

...

Of the seven possible templates to copy back (down to the left on that page), the two last ones are object location. -- Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> > > OMG OMG!!! (sorry for the enthusiasm) That is the solution right there! > You copy&paste the coords from the bot-generated camera location and then > that tool zeros right down to street level - I just tried it with the file > Tomasz sent me and the adjusted coords are returned in the same format. All > we need is a way to copy&paste those back into object location - do we have > that? > Jane > > 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> >> >> If we find someone who can do some hacking (which I can't) perhaps >> there is a way to integrate this tool to let the user select the location? >> http://tools.freeside.sk/geolocator/geolocator.html >> -- >> Med vänliga hälsningar >> Jan Ainali >> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> Tomasz, >>> Thanks for those links! As the Dutch say, "now my wooden clog is >>> breaking". Using the wonderful link right there to open street maps, is >>> there a way to ask the user who clicked on the image to update the >>> template:location if it is empty? This way the user just needs to move the >>> geo pointer on the map to the correct location (you probably need google >>> satellite view for this, not open street maps) >>> Jane >>> 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> >>>> >>>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: >>>>> Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it, but >>>>> do I >>>>> understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets stuffed >>>>> into >>>>> a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? >>>>> Because that >>>>> way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS >>>>> coordinates >>>>> (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for >>>>> the >>>>> countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move this >>>>> info >>>>> into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS >>>>> coordinates >>>>> for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing >>>> >>>> Yes: >>>> >>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot >>>> >>>> Typical recent action of the bot: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%… >>>> >>>> >>>> I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a >>>> functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures of >>>> monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large >>>> buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as this: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_… >>>> >>>> Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of the >>>> object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong. For >>>> example if the small church in on the corner of the small square - if >>>> you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in distance >>>> it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place :-) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >>>> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >>>> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >>>> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> >> >> >> -- >> Med vänliga hälsningar >> Jan Ainali >> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Elisardo

12:50 a.m.

I think that the points of Benoit and Tomas are very important, and I didn't know the tool of WLM Portugal, it's a great tool!. If we could do some similar in the upload form I think that it could be a very useful tool for the wikis that don't have all the coordinates of the monuments. Who is in charge of the WLM upload form?. Could this tool integrated on it? Elisardojm 2011/7/17 Nuno Tavares <nuno.tavares(a)wikimedia.pt>

...

tool

> but make a mashup with the bot. When a user uploads a file with an EXIF > coordinate, the map pops up and asks for the photographed object

location,

> centered to the camera location. After the user has dropped the flag on

the

> object the user press Done and everything else would be automated. > -- > Med vänliga hälsningar > Jan Ainali > Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige > > 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >> >> Yes, but I would like to see a empty hole in the photo template that

you

>> can just plop that info into for these monuments - remember, lots of

people

>> will be VERY frightened off by that tag and in this specific case, be >> dazzled by SEVEN options to choose from... >> >> 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> >>> >>> Of the seven possible templates to copy back (down to the left on that >>> page), the two last ones are object location. >>> -- >>> Med vänliga hälsningar >>> Jan Ainali >>> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >>>> >>>> OMG OMG!!! (sorry for the enthusiasm) That is the solution right

there!

>>>> You copy&paste the coords from the bot-generated camera location and

then

>>>> that tool zeros right down to street level - I just tried it with the

file

>>>> Tomasz sent me and the adjusted coords are returned in the same

format. All

>>>> we need is a way to copy&paste those back into object location - do

we have

>>>> that? >>>> Jane >>>> >>>> 2011/7/15 Jan Ainali <jan.ainali(a)wikimedia.se> >>>>> >>>>> If we find someone who can do some hacking (which I can't) perhaps >>>>> there is a way to integrate this tool to let the user select the

location?

>>>>> http://tools.freeside.sk/geolocator/geolocator.html >>>>> -- >>>>> Med vänliga hälsningar >>>>> Jan Ainali >>>>> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >>>>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tomasz, >>>>>> Thanks for those links! As the Dutch say, "now my wooden clog is >>>>>> breaking". Using the wonderful link right there to open street

maps, is

>>>>>> there a way to ask the user who clicked on the image to update the >>>>>> template:location if it is empty? This way the user just needs to

move the

>>>>>> geo pointer on the map to the correct location (you probably need

google

>>>>>> satellite view for this, not open street maps) >>>>>> Jane >>>>>> 2011/7/15 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2011/7/15 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>: >>>>>>>> Jan, I don't have a camera that does this, so I can't test it,

but

>>>>>>>> do I >>>>>>>> understand from this that the EXIF info automatically gets

stuffed

>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> a Template:Location (camera location) field as it stands now? >>>>>>>> Because that >>>>>>>> way for the countries who have their act together with the GIS >>>>>>>> coordinates >>>>>>>> (like the Netherlands, Ahem!) we should do nothing, and then for >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> countries who are missing coordinates, we can have a bot move

this

>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>> into Template:Object location and dump it into a category "GIS >>>>>>>> coordinates >>>>>>>> for XXX monuments under review" or some such thing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:DschwenBot >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Typical recent action of the bot: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%…

>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think we can simply talk to the owner of this bot to add such a >>>>>>> functionality. Although IMHO quite substantial number of pictures

>>>>>>> monuments are taken from some distance. especially tall and large >>>>>>> buildings. Even if you take a picture of smaller object such as

this:

>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bersillies_%28Nord,_Fr%29_Salle_des_…

>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your possition is at least 6 to 10 meters from the possition of

the

>>>>>>> object. It is better than nothing but anyway it is still wrong.

For

>>>>>>> example if the small church in on the corner of the small square -

>>>>>>> you take a picture from the opposite corner which is 50 m in

distance

>>>>>>> it will put the possition of the church in obviously wrong place

:-)

>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >>>>> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >>>>> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >>>>> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Med vänliga hälsningar >>> Jan Ainali >>> Ordförande, Wikimedia Sverige >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

Maarten Dammers

1:50 p.m.

Hi everyone, Op 17-7-2011 2:50, Elisardo schreef:

...

I'm working with the WMF to get a WLM custom upload form based on the upload wizard. This will be KISS so extra fields (like for coordinates) are bit out of the scope for the design. You can read the notes at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/User:NeilK/Multimedia… If the dataset contains the location of the object it will be added by a bot. See for example https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/w/index.php?title=File:Bussl… You can see how complete the countries are at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monu… Maarten

...

Elisardojm

Lodewijk

3 p.m.

Would it make more sense to add an /easy/ way for people to fix/change coordinates directly into the database/wiki by for example clicking on a map? I think the tool wmpt offers is close to that. That way we can seperate the two problems (form and coordinates), and we dont have to include all additional options on the form. Please remember that the reason we want a custom upload interface is that we want to limit the number of fields drastically. Lodewijk 2011/7/17 Maarten Dammers <maarten(a)mdammers.nl>

...

Hi everyone, Op 17-7-2011 2:50, Elisardo schreef:

Elisardojm

Tomasz Ganicz

3:17 p.m.

2011/7/17 Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>rg>:

...

Maybe the good idea would be to add a optional button to the WLM commons template called "geolocate the monument" leading to the page where we kindly ask for geolocation + explanation how to do it. Then the user will see it after uploading the picture and can do it if he/she wants. The template can check if the monument is acutally geolocated and if not show this button. -- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

Elisardo

10:35 p.m.

I think that the idea of Tomasz could work very well. Now the questions, could be added this button?, could be adapted the WLMPT's tool for other countries?. Elisardojm 2011/7/17 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek(a)gmail.com>

...

2011/7/17 Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>rg>:

seperate

the two problems (form and coordinates), and we dont have to include all additional options on the form. Please remember that the reason we want a custom upload interface is that

want to limit the number of fields drastically. Lodewijk

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23 comments

8 participants

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participants (8)

Benoît Evellin
Elisardo
Jan Ainali
Jane Darnell
Lodewijk
Maarten Dammers
Nuno Tavares
Tomasz Ganicz