I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee.
Dear MF-Warburg,
Thank you for mentioning this. As you might know, I am member of the Movement Charter Drafting Committee (MCDC), and more specifically, of the subcommittee working with Global Council. The text that you have shared is actually a suggestion because we have to start somewhere, but the whole idea is that the team needs feedback to be able to work on the draft and advance with it.
Currently, MCDC is launching community conversations https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Community_Consultation (from July to September) and there are many ways to share your feedback. It can be either on Meta or by joining designated meetings or even at Wikimania (in case anyone is attending). Please let me know what works best, but the MCDC is really seeking feedback from all stakeholders. I apologize for not mentioning this before (as communications were shared in different channels by the team), but it is great that you mentioned it here Warburg, especially in this time, which is exactly the perfect one for these discussions.
Please let me know if you have any questions. I will be happy to answer or point you towards someone who can.
Thank you again, and have a great day ahead!
Best regards,
Anass
On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 6:03 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of
LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be
recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of
LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be
recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I will try to write something over the weekend.
Am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023 um 10:03 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati <sedranas@gmail.com
:
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of
LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be
recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_-406384858432134963_m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Some comments, I invite your additions and comments. I hope we can have a consensus so we can give our comments "as Langcom", not as individual members.
=== Approving new language projects - standards setting === [1] * The Language Committee (LangCom) reports to the Global Council. The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter. [2] * The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be recognised. [3] * The Global Council may choose to allow LangCom to directly recognise new language projects or retain that authority for itself. [4] * In this new structure, LangCom is tasked to verify that proposed projects are substantial and sufficiently supported.
=== Closure of lingual and sister projects === [5] * The Global Council possesses the authority to veto decisions to close a lingual project. It may set its own standards on whether to vote on such matters. Where it does not vote, the Language Committee (LangCom) will take the decision. [Does not relate to Langcom] * An affirmative vote of the Global Council is required to progress with closing a sister project. The Global Council may set additional criteria before voting. The viability of project continuation and necessity of closing will be extensively checked before final voting by Global Council. [6] * The Global Council, through LangCom, would have the authority to set standards to close an incubator project. In the absence of Global Council action, LangCom will continue to set its own standards.
To point 1. I suggest acknowledging that Langcom already exists and has a structure and a [[m:Language_committee#Charter|charter]], which however still shows signs of being from the time Langcom was established.
To point 2. I suggest making clear that this relates to the [[m:Language proposal policy]]. It should be made clear if the Global Council should have the competency to change this policy (alone?).
To point 3. Please make clear what "recognise" means. Currently we have "verification as eligible" and "final approval", both are done by Langcom. The Board has years ago waived the requirement that they formally be consulted for a final approval (i.e. wiki creation). I suggest keeping it that way and striking this point, as the current process works and it would be strange to reserve the creation of wikis to a different body.
To point 4. Please make clear if this is supposed to be a change from current policy.
To point 5. Please use "language version" instead of "lingual project". This is the established terminology and, I think, also clearer than the relatively unknown adjective "lingual".
To point 6. What would it mean to close an Incubator project? Currently, projects on Incubator can get deleted / prevented from creation, but that is an Incubator community / admins decision. Also, don't forget that Wikisource and Wikiversity are being incubated on the Multilingual Wikisource and BetaWikiversity, respectively.
Am Fr., 1. Sept. 2023 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
I will try to write something over the weekend.
Am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023 um 10:03 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of
LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be
recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_-9185265129092455911_m_-406384858432134963_m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
If there are no other comments, I will post these on the talk page.
Am Di., 5. Sept. 2023 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
Some comments, I invite your additions and comments. I hope we can have a consensus so we can give our comments "as Langcom", not as individual members.
=== Approving new language projects - standards setting === [1] * The Language Committee (LangCom) reports to the Global Council. The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter. [2] * The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be recognised. [3] * The Global Council may choose to allow LangCom to directly recognise new language projects or retain that authority for itself. [4] * In this new structure, LangCom is tasked to verify that proposed projects are substantial and sufficiently supported.
=== Closure of lingual and sister projects === [5] * The Global Council possesses the authority to veto decisions to close a lingual project. It may set its own standards on whether to vote on such matters. Where it does not vote, the Language Committee (LangCom) will take the decision. [Does not relate to Langcom] * An affirmative vote of the Global Council is required to progress with closing a sister project. The Global Council may set additional criteria before voting. The viability of project continuation and necessity of closing will be extensively checked before final voting by Global Council. [6] * The Global Council, through LangCom, would have the authority to set standards to close an incubator project. In the absence of Global Council action, LangCom will continue to set its own standards.
To point 1. I suggest acknowledging that Langcom already exists and has a structure and a [[m:Language_committee#Charter|charter]], which however still shows signs of being from the time Langcom was established.
To point 2. I suggest making clear that this relates to the [[m:Language proposal policy]]. It should be made clear if the Global Council should have the competency to change this policy (alone?).
To point 3. Please make clear what "recognise" means. Currently we have "verification as eligible" and "final approval", both are done by Langcom. The Board has years ago waived the requirement that they formally be consulted for a final approval (i.e. wiki creation). I suggest keeping it that way and striking this point, as the current process works and it would be strange to reserve the creation of wikis to a different body.
To point 4. Please make clear if this is supposed to be a change from current policy.
To point 5. Please use "language version" instead of "lingual project". This is the established terminology and, I think, also clearer than the relatively unknown adjective "lingual".
To point 6. What would it mean to close an Incubator project? Currently, projects on Incubator can get deleted / prevented from creation, but that is an Incubator community / admins decision. Also, don't forget that Wikisource and Wikiversity are being incubated on the Multilingual Wikisource and BetaWikiversity, respectively.
Am Fr., 1. Sept. 2023 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
I will try to write something over the weekend.
Am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023 um 10:03 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of
LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be
recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_2206688088646600982_m_-9185265129092455911_m_-406384858432134963_m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
@ Anass: Can you convey these comments? Otherwise I can only post them on Meta on Wednesday.
MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com schrieb am Mi., 13. Sept. 2023, 01:30:
If there are no other comments, I will post these on the talk page.
Am Di., 5. Sept. 2023 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
Some comments, I invite your additions and comments. I hope we can have a consensus so we can give our comments "as Langcom", not as individual members.
=== Approving new language projects - standards setting === [1] * The Language Committee (LangCom) reports to the Global Council. The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter. [2] * The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be recognised. [3] * The Global Council may choose to allow LangCom to directly recognise new language projects or retain that authority for itself. [4] * In this new structure, LangCom is tasked to verify that proposed projects are substantial and sufficiently supported.
=== Closure of lingual and sister projects === [5] * The Global Council possesses the authority to veto decisions to close a lingual project. It may set its own standards on whether to vote on such matters. Where it does not vote, the Language Committee (LangCom) will take the decision. [Does not relate to Langcom] * An affirmative vote of the Global Council is required to progress with closing a sister project. The Global Council may set additional criteria before voting. The viability of project continuation and necessity of closing will be extensively checked before final voting by Global Council. [6] * The Global Council, through LangCom, would have the authority to set standards to close an incubator project. In the absence of Global Council action, LangCom will continue to set its own standards.
To point 1. I suggest acknowledging that Langcom already exists and has a structure and a [[m:Language_committee#Charter|charter]], which however still shows signs of being from the time Langcom was established.
To point 2. I suggest making clear that this relates to the [[m:Language proposal policy]]. It should be made clear if the Global Council should have the competency to change this policy (alone?).
To point 3. Please make clear what "recognise" means. Currently we have "verification as eligible" and "final approval", both are done by Langcom. The Board has years ago waived the requirement that they formally be consulted for a final approval (i.e. wiki creation). I suggest keeping it that way and striking this point, as the current process works and it would be strange to reserve the creation of wikis to a different body.
To point 4. Please make clear if this is supposed to be a change from current policy.
To point 5. Please use "language version" instead of "lingual project". This is the established terminology and, I think, also clearer than the relatively unknown adjective "lingual".
To point 6. What would it mean to close an Incubator project? Currently, projects on Incubator can get deleted / prevented from creation, but that is an Incubator community / admins decision. Also, don't forget that Wikisource and Wikiversity are being incubated on the Multilingual Wikisource and BetaWikiversity, respectively.
Am Fr., 1. Sept. 2023 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
I will try to write something over the weekend.
Am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023 um 10:03 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of
LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to
be recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_4870794073240116331_m_2206688088646600982_m_-9185265129092455911_m_-406384858432134963_m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
I have noticed that at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised.
My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal that is backed by the consensus of the committee. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hello MF-Warburg,
So sorry for my late answer. I am currently in Ivory Coast for a conference and I am not really always connected, apologies for that!
Please if you have posted on Meta let me know, and I will take it to the MCDC. Thank you very much!
Best regards,
Anass
On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 9:04 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
@ Anass: Can you convey these comments? Otherwise I can only post them on Meta on Wednesday.
MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com schrieb am Mi., 13. Sept. 2023, 01:30:
If there are no other comments, I will post these on the talk page.
Am Di., 5. Sept. 2023 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
Some comments, I invite your additions and comments. I hope we can have a consensus so we can give our comments "as Langcom", not as individual members.
=== Approving new language projects - standards setting === [1] * The Language Committee (LangCom) reports to the Global Council. The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter. [2] * The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be recognised. [3] * The Global Council may choose to allow LangCom to directly recognise new language projects or retain that authority for itself. [4] * In this new structure, LangCom is tasked to verify that proposed projects are substantial and sufficiently supported.
=== Closure of lingual and sister projects === [5] * The Global Council possesses the authority to veto decisions to close a lingual project. It may set its own standards on whether to vote on such matters. Where it does not vote, the Language Committee (LangCom) will take the decision. [Does not relate to Langcom] * An affirmative vote of the Global Council is required to progress with closing a sister project. The Global Council may set additional criteria before voting. The viability of project continuation and necessity of closing will be extensively checked before final voting by Global Council. [6] * The Global Council, through LangCom, would have the authority to set standards to close an incubator project. In the absence of Global Council action, LangCom will continue to set its own standards.
To point 1. I suggest acknowledging that Langcom already exists and has a structure and a [[m:Language_committee#Charter|charter]], which however still shows signs of being from the time Langcom was established.
To point 2. I suggest making clear that this relates to the [[m:Language proposal policy]]. It should be made clear if the Global Council should have the competency to change this policy (alone?).
To point 3. Please make clear what "recognise" means. Currently we have "verification as eligible" and "final approval", both are done by Langcom. The Board has years ago waived the requirement that they formally be consulted for a final approval (i.e. wiki creation). I suggest keeping it that way and striking this point, as the current process works and it would be strange to reserve the creation of wikis to a different body.
To point 4. Please make clear if this is supposed to be a change from current policy.
To point 5. Please use "language version" instead of "lingual project". This is the established terminology and, I think, also clearer than the relatively unknown adjective "lingual".
To point 6. What would it mean to close an Incubator project? Currently, projects on Incubator can get deleted / prevented from creation, but that is an Incubator community / admins decision. Also, don't forget that Wikisource and Wikiversity are being incubated on the Multilingual Wikisource and BetaWikiversity, respectively.
Am Fr., 1. Sept. 2023 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
I will try to write something over the weekend.
Am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023 um 10:03 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the power to override the consensus and process of the existing global community.
The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of > LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter.
It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body.
The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to > be recognised.
It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body.
There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee langcom's structure and decision making? I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out in the past will be implemented.
Sotiale
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 없습니다.www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail <#m_-1947733767101341826_m_4870794073240116331_m_2206688088646600982_m_-9185265129092455911_m_-406384858432134963_m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 작성:
> I have noticed that at < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., > it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for > oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So > far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised. > > My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still > implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I > just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would > be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal > that is backed by the consensus of the committee. > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Posted: < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council...
Am Sa., 23. Sept. 2023 um 13:16 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello MF-Warburg,
So sorry for my late answer. I am currently in Ivory Coast for a conference and I am not really always connected, apologies for that!
Please if you have posted on Meta let me know, and I will take it to the MCDC. Thank you very much!
Best regards,
Anass
On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 9:04 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
@ Anass: Can you convey these comments? Otherwise I can only post them on Meta on Wednesday.
MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com schrieb am Mi., 13. Sept. 2023, 01:30:
If there are no other comments, I will post these on the talk page.
Am Di., 5. Sept. 2023 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
Some comments, I invite your additions and comments. I hope we can have a consensus so we can give our comments "as Langcom", not as individual members.
=== Approving new language projects - standards setting === [1] * The Language Committee (LangCom) reports to the Global Council. The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure of LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter. [2] * The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to be recognised. [3] * The Global Council may choose to allow LangCom to directly recognise new language projects or retain that authority for itself. [4] * In this new structure, LangCom is tasked to verify that proposed projects are substantial and sufficiently supported.
=== Closure of lingual and sister projects === [5] * The Global Council possesses the authority to veto decisions to close a lingual project. It may set its own standards on whether to vote on such matters. Where it does not vote, the Language Committee (LangCom) will take the decision. [Does not relate to Langcom] * An affirmative vote of the Global Council is required to progress with closing a sister project. The Global Council may set additional criteria before voting. The viability of project continuation and necessity of closing will be extensively checked before final voting by Global Council. [6] * The Global Council, through LangCom, would have the authority to set standards to close an incubator project. In the absence of Global Council action, LangCom will continue to set its own standards.
To point 1. I suggest acknowledging that Langcom already exists and has a structure and a [[m:Language_committee#Charter|charter]], which however still shows signs of being from the time Langcom was established.
To point 2. I suggest making clear that this relates to the [[m:Language proposal policy]]. It should be made clear if the Global Council should have the competency to change this policy (alone?).
To point 3. Please make clear what "recognise" means. Currently we have "verification as eligible" and "final approval", both are done by Langcom. The Board has years ago waived the requirement that they formally be consulted for a final approval (i.e. wiki creation). I suggest keeping it that way and striking this point, as the current process works and it would be strange to reserve the creation of wikis to a different body.
To point 4. Please make clear if this is supposed to be a change from current policy.
To point 5. Please use "language version" instead of "lingual project". This is the established terminology and, I think, also clearer than the relatively unknown adjective "lingual".
To point 6. What would it mean to close an Incubator project? Currently, projects on Incubator can get deleted / prevented from creation, but that is an Incubator community / admins decision. Also, don't forget that Wikisource and Wikiversity are being incubated on the Multilingual Wikisource and BetaWikiversity, respectively.
Am Fr., 1. Sept. 2023 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
I will try to write something over the weekend.
Am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023 um 10:03 Uhr schrieb Anass Sedrati < sedranas@gmail.com>:
Hello and sorry for my late answer,
It is important to voice and share your feedback as I have mentioned that the MCDC is now having its community conversation period. Could you please share your feedback at the talk page of the Global Council draft https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council? If it is not possible, just let me know and I can see how to take it to the MCDC to make sure that your opinion is gathered during this round before shaping the next draft. Thank you again for taking the time and caring about the movement charter :)
I wish you an excellent weekend!
Best regards,
Anass
On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 6:37 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
> The realization of the power specified on the page sounds like the > power to override the consensus and process of the existing global > community. > > The Global Council makes the final decisions on form and structure >> of LangCom, subject to the provisions within the Movement Charter. > > It is not clear in what sense the expression was used. It sounds > like the GC can elect or dismiss members as an oversight body. > > The Global Council may modify prerequisites for language projects to >> be recognised. > > It is thought to grant the power to override the contents of the > current LPP. But this will cause serious confusion. > Because this would rather create exceptions, the existing langcom > would be crippled and appealed to the GC, the appellate body. > > There are other points of concern, such as how does the GC oversee > langcom's structure and decision making? > I am concerned that the complaints and problems of each local wiki > about OC (I am not talking about the current OC) that have been pointed out > in the past will be implemented. > > Sotiale > > > > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail 바이러스가 > 없습니다.www.avast.com > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail > <#m_5559675363552281990_m_-1947733767101341826_m_4870794073240116331_m_2206688088646600982_m_-9185265129092455911_m_-406384858432134963_m_6013307663315263621_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > 2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:03, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com님이 > 작성: > >> I have noticed that at < >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Content/Global_Council#Resp..., >> it is suggested to make the proposed Global Council responsible for >> oversight over Langcom, instead of - like it currently is - the Board. So >> far, nobody has invited us to comment on this, about which I am surprised. >> >> My first impression is that it would not change a lot, but it still >> implies there will be *some* changes to the Langcom processes. For now, I >> just wanted to send a quick email to inform you all, but I think it would >> be worthwhile to look into that and to make a statement about the proposal >> that is backed by the consensus of the committee. >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
*Anass SEDRATI* *(+46) 70 508 51 07* _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org