Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
1.
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
-
Mapudungun -
Southern Ndebele -
Obolo -
Tai Nüa -
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png]
Hi all,
I see that this email was approved for delivery on the list today (initially sent ~8 days ago). Based on this, I am extending the deadline to receive feedback from all members to *August 30th*. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the experiment idea.
Cheers, Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 11:31 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png]
Hello Srishti Thank you for keeping us in the loop. I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
--- Tochi
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
Sotiale
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:
Hello Srishti Thank you for keeping us in the loop. I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Tochi
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are proposing
to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a
suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Thank you for your response Srishti. I'll read through the article and get back to you if I have any questions, suggestions or concerns.
--- Tochi
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, 12:55 AM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are proposing
to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a
suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I had a look at the metrics of the five test-wikis in question, sorry for being late in the response period!
The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.
*Wp/arn ** most important messages: 98.97 % ** activity 2024: no month with at least 3 editors; 56 edits (excluding bots); only 2 users who made more than one edit
*Wp/nr (or nbl?) ** most important messages: neither code enabled in TWN ** activity 2024: January 0 edits, February 1 edit, March lots of edits and users, April 12 edits (3 users, none above 10 edits), May 2 users above 10 edits, June 1 user above 10 edits and 2 users with one edit each, July 3 users above 10 edits and 3 below, August 1 user above 10 edits and 5 below so far.
*Wp/ann ** most important messages: 100 % ** activity 2024: Jan 3, Feb 2, March 3, April 3, May 1, June 3, July 3, August 2 users above 10 edits
*Wp/tdd ** most important messages: 97.25 % ** activity 2024: consistently 3 or more users above 10 edits each month
*Wp/rsk ** most important messages: 100 % ** activity 2024: January 2 users above 10 edits, other months at least 7 users
All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still require a verification of the content.
As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.
Wp/nr and and Wp/ann seem to me to be good candidates for this experiment. However, we (Langcom) should find out why 'nr' doesn't have any interface translation yet (even though, as I understand it, we could ignore the lack of it as part of the experiment).
I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...
.
Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are proposing
to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a
suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hello MF-Warburg,
Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.
About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.
All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still
require a verification of the content.
We agree with this.
As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.
Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.
I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...
.
Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]
Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are
proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a
suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hello Srishti,
I couldn't verify if Krio had any native speaker contributors either. But it is a better choice than Wp/arn and I can live with it. To get approval of the projects until 10 September is a fast timeline, but could be doable. I think the next steps are: 1) Langcom - announcement of intended approval (on Meta) 2) WMF - contact communities to see if they want to be involved - if not already done? 3) Langcom - verification of the content. This could be the main bottleneck, but it could also be fast, depending on if experts are found.
Let me know what you think.
Am Mi., 4. Sept. 2024 um 21:48 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello MF-Warburg,
Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.
About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.
All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still
require a verification of the content.
We agree with this.
As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.
Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.
I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...
.
Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]
Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are
proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이
작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a
suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hello MF-Warburg,
On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 3:37 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
To get approval of the projects until 10 September is a fast timeline, but could be doable.
I think the next steps are:
- Langcom - announcement of intended approval (on Meta)
Thanks for your support! I see that the intended approval has already been published on Meta-wiki < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Five_Wikipedias%3E. We are happy to wait for the full seven-day notice period (until September 14th).
- WMF - contact communities to see if they want to be involved - if not
already done?
Given that we are providing full-wiki access and will probably not rollback the wikis to the Incubator (unless under extreme circumstances), we believe it should be fine to inform them before wiki creation. However, we probably don’t need their approval and would like to let them know they are being approved, invite them to edit, share a bit about the experiment, and provide the necessary resources they would need to get started. Getting approval from the limited number of users editing in these languages might become a bottleneck and defeat the purpose of the experiment, which is intended to be small and quick (as in "wiki").
- Langcom - verification of the content. This could be the main
bottleneck, but it could also be fast, depending on if experts are found.
Our understanding was that this is something that can happen in subsequent months after the wikis are created, as the very purpose of the experiment is to give full production wiki access to five languages so that they can use advanced features like Content Translation to help grow content. A verification requirement prior to the experiment may defeat the very purpose of the experiment.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Mi., 4. Sept. 2024 um 21:48 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello MF-Warburg,
Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.
About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.
All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still
require a verification of the content.
We agree with this.
As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.
Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.
I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...
.
Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]
Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are
proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이
작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a
suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org
wrote:
> Hello Language Committee, > > I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing > a new approach to onboarding a language wiki. > > Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant > stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, > Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current > challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, > several recommendations emerged, which are documented here > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations > which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas: > > 1. > > Streamlining technical infrastructure > 2. > > Exploring social pathways > > > For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and > as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, > the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language > Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the > difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical > limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the > following: > > Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki > approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language > Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure > so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. > At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized > wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the > incubator. > > Please see the detailed proposal > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, > including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, > and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: > https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299 > > After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant > to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards > better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards > we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and > start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would > like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see > attached screenshot): > > > > - > > Mapudungun > - > > Southern Ndebele > - > > Obolo > - > > Tai Nüa > - > > Pannonian Rusyn > > > We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and > would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to > the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th. > > Cheers, > > Srishti > > *Srishti Sethi* > Senior Developer Advocate > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Am So., 8. Sept. 2024 um 01:22 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello MF-Warburg,
On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 3:37 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
To get approval of the projects until 10 September is a fast timeline, but could be doable.
I think the next steps are:
- Langcom - announcement of intended approval (on Meta)
Thanks for your support! I see that the intended approval has already been published on Meta-wiki < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Five_Wikipedias%3E. We are happy to wait for the full seven-day notice period (until September 14th).
That's great, I adjusted the notice accordingly. Speaking of this, can you remind us how long the time for "monitoring" the wikis is intended to be?
- WMF - contact communities to see if they want to be involved - if not
already done?
Given that we are providing full-wiki access and will probably not rollback the wikis to the Incubator (unless under extreme circumstances), we believe it should be fine to inform them before wiki creation. However, we probably don’t need their approval and would like to let them know they are being approved, invite them to edit, share a bit about the experiment, and provide the necessary resources they would need to get started. Getting approval from the limited number of users editing in these languages might become a bottleneck and defeat the purpose of the experiment, which is intended to be small and quick (as in "wiki").
I do not care too much about what exactly the note says, but has the WMF team already been in contact with communities? Also, this is in the proposal: "If any of the selected languages decline to participate, we will re-run the sampling for that group, without replacement." If users from a test-wiki don't react at all (looking at Krio), it shouldn't be approved.
- Langcom - verification of the content. This could be the main
bottleneck, but it could also be fast, depending on if experts are found.
Our understanding was that this is something that can happen in subsequent months after the wikis are created, as the very purpose of the experiment is to give full production wiki access to five languages so that they can use advanced features like Content Translation to help grow content. A verification requirement prior to the experiment may defeat the very purpose of the experiment.
This cannot happen, especially as "Clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period." also seems to have been dropped already. Ensuring that wikis are in the language they purport to be is one of the main functions of Langcom and it cannot be waved aside. I have however already contacted linguists and am confident we will have replies by the end of the week.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Mi., 4. Sept. 2024 um 21:48 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello MF-Warburg,
Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.
About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.
All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still
require a verification of the content.
We agree with this.
As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.
Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.
I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...
.
Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]
Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are
proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이
작성:
I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but
a suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org
> wrote: > >> Hello Language Committee, >> >> I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing >> a new approach to onboarding a language wiki. >> >> Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant >> stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, >> Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current >> challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, >> several recommendations emerged, which are documented here >> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations >> which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas: >> >> 1. >> >> Streamlining technical infrastructure >> 2. >> >> Exploring social pathways >> >> >> For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and >> as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, >> the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language >> Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the >> difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical >> limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the >> following: >> >> Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new >> wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the >> Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production >> infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the >> incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of >> these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or >> otherwise) still in the incubator. >> >> Please see the detailed proposal >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, >> including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, >> and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: >> https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299 >> >> After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF >> relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point >> towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move >> onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language >> Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the >> email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of >> wikis (also see attached screenshot): >> >> >> >> - >> >> Mapudungun >> - >> >> Southern Ndebele >> - >> >> Obolo >> - >> >> Tai Nüa >> - >> >> Pannonian Rusyn >> >> >> We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and >> would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to >> the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Srishti >> >> *Srishti Sethi* >> Senior Developer Advocate >> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 1:58 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
That's great, I adjusted the notice accordingly. Speaking of this, can you remind us how long the time for "monitoring" the wikis is intended to be?
The time for monitoring will be 3-4 months.
I do not care too much about what exactly the note says, but has the WMF team already been in contact with communities?
I have posted on the talk pages of wikis https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=all&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-10&end=2024-09-10 that were proposed for approval. We also plan to contact active editors of these languages just in case the talk pages are not added to their watchlist. Let us know if there is anything we might have missed.
Am Mi., 4. Sept. 2024 um 21:48 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello MF-Warburg,
Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.
About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.
All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still
require a verification of the content.
We agree with this.
As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.
Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.
I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...
.
Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]
Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.
Cheers, Srishti
Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <
ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Hello all,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:
> I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the > random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, > it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability > criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in > ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more > convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time. >
That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk > wrote:
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are > proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:
Why does the current system not work?
What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?
Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.
2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 > 작성: > I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but > a suggestion: > Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as > well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has > spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I > would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.
Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.
We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.
We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!
Cheers, Srishti
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Language Committee, >>> >>> I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment >>> addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki. >>> >>> Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant >>> stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, >>> Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current >>> challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, >>> several recommendations emerged, which are documented here >>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations >>> which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas: >>> >>> 1. >>> >>> Streamlining technical infrastructure >>> 2. >>> >>> Exploring social pathways >>> >>> >>> For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation >>> and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, >>> the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language >>> Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the >>> difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical >>> limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the >>> following: >>> >>> Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new >>> wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the >>> Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production >>> infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the >>> incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of >>> these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or >>> otherwise) still in the incubator. >>> >>> Please see the detailed proposal >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, >>> including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, >>> and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: >>> https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299 >>> >>> After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF >>> relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point >>> towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move >>> onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language >>> Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the >>> email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of >>> wikis (also see attached screenshot): >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> >>> Mapudungun >>> - >>> >>> Southern Ndebele >>> - >>> >>> Obolo >>> - >>> >>> Tai Nüa >>> - >>> >>> Pannonian Rusyn >>> >>> >>> We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and >>> would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to >>> the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Srishti >>> >>> *Srishti Sethi* >>> Senior Developer Advocate >>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>> [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...
)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...
)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...
)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]
Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.
Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.
No objections.
Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...
)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.
Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my > own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] > > Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to > active editors yet but I assume they are there. > > Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the > private list. > > >
For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
No objections.
Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...
)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Thank you.
Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.
Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to > generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top > 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages > on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 > and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. > > Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response > from Wp/nr > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 > . > *Srishti Sethi* > Senior Developer Advocate > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com > wrote: > >> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my >> own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >> >> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >> >> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the >> private list. >> >> >>
Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
No objections.
Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...
)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
> Thank you. > > Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the > private list. > > Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < > ssethi@wikimedia.org>: > >> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the >> top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user >> pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 >> editors >> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >> >> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response >> from Wp/nr >> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >> . >> *Srishti Sethi* >> Senior Developer Advocate >> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve >>> my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>> >>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >>> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>> >>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the >>> private list. >>> >>> >>>
That's great to hear.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 6:04 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
No objections.
Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.
We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni... >)
Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
> Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for > Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language > Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the > sequence. > *Srishti Sethi* > Senior Developer Advocate > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com > wrote: > >> Thank you. >> >> Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the >> private list. >> >> Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >> >>> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >>> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the >>> top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user >>> pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 >>> editors >>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >>> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >>> >>> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive >>> response from Wp/nr >>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >>> . >>> *Srishti Sethi* >>> Senior Developer Advocate >>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve >>>> my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>>> >>>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >>>> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>>> >>>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the >>>> private list. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
This is great news! Thank you so much MF-Warburg and Language Committee for your support in getting the five wikis approved.
Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com wrote:
That's great to hear.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 6:04 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.
Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:
No objections.
Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:
It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?
[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann
I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
> Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would > be the more complete sentence. > > We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki > as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni... > >) > > Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < > ssethi@wikimedia.org>: > >> Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist >> for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language >> Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the >> sequence. >> *Srishti Sethi* >> Senior Developer Advocate >> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg < >> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the >>> private list. >>> >>> Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>> >>>> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >>>> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the >>>> top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user >>>> pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 >>>> editors >>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >>>> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >>>> >>>> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive >>>> response from Wp/nr >>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >>>> . >>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve >>>>> my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >>>>> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>>>> >>>>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the >>>>> private list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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Hi Srishti,
Thank you for your message.
I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in: • Why does the current system not work? • What specific changes do you suggest be implemented? Thank you.
Kind regards, Denis Smajlović
----- Original message ----- From: Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org To: langcom@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Langcom] Proposal to try a new approach to onboarding a language wiki Date: Tuesday, August 13, 2024 23:31
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here _https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations... which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
1. Streamlining technical infrastructure
2. Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the _Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity)_ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
*Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator. *
Please see the _detailed proposal_ https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: _https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299_
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
• Mapudungun
• Southern Ndebele
• Obolo
• Tai Nüa
• Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by *August 24th*.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Dear Language Committee,
Please allow me, being a non-member but a long-time follower of LangCom, to make a request on behalf of the Interslavic community. Interslavic is an auxiliary Slavic language, intended to be intelligible to speakers of any Slavic language. With a community of ca. 25,000 users and interested bystanders, Interslavic is by far the largest and most active constructed language project after Esperanto nowadays. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interslavic for details.
Interslavic has had its own Wikipedia-inspired wiki since 2007. Currently, it is hosted at Miraheze https://isv.miraheze.org and has nearly 500 articles, most of which are rather decent in size. In addition, it features an elaborate system for transliteration between the Latin and Cyrillic alphabets, as well as several other gadgets and modules.
In April of this year, Interslavic received an ISO 639-3 code (isv). Soon after, a request https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Interslavic was filed for an Interslavic Wikipedia at Meta, and an Interslavic Wikipedia edition https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/isv was started in the Incubator. The logical next step would be transferring the contents of our wiki at Miraheze to the Incubator. This, however, turns out to be more complicated than expected, and as a result, we are kind of stuck in limbo right now.
First of all, having two wikis with partially overlapping content is most inconvenient, with some contributors working in the old wiki and others in the Incubator. An additional problem is that some people have started copying articles manually, whereas everything should be imported along with page histories instead. Once import is done, the idea is to close or even delete the old wiki.
Secondly, I've been told that automated translation cannot be implemented in the Incubator. If this is true, the move to the Incubator would be a serious degradation, as it would defy our main objective. For Interslavic, availability of all wiki content in both scripts is of crucial importance.
Thirdly, moving everything twice is a lot of extra work, especially if it comes with a serious loss in functionality. User:Oostwesthoesbes suggested https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Import_requests#Wp/isv skipping the whole Incubator stage, which apparently has already been done once in the case of Lingua Franca Nova (lfn.wikipedia.org). Would LangCom be willing to consider this solution for Interslavic, too?
Or, more ideally, would LangCom perhaps consider including Interslavic in the experiment that is currently under discussion? For us, the advantages would be tremendous: * It will save us the trouble of moving everything twice, including adding and removing prefixes. * The transliteration facilities that are vital for Interslavic would be preserved. * A domain isv.wikipedia.org will give us a lot more visability–for example, via interwiki links–and generate a lot more activity than the Incubator. Although the Incubator is a great idea in itself, it is not the place where people look for information. Especially since Interslavic is not meant to serve the needs and interests of Interslavic speakers, but to provide understandable information to anyone who knows one of more Slavic languages. * The criteria for activity are easily met if activity on both wikis is combined. * All core messages have already been translated, and the same goes for many other parts of the interface, ca. 9200 messages in total. See https://codelookup.toolforge.org/isv-latn and https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Isv. * Eligibility has not been verified yet, but I assume this should be nothing but a mere formality.
Thanks in advance!
Best regards, Jan van Steenbergen, a.k.a. IJzeren Jan https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:IJzeren_Jan
Op do 22 aug 2024 om 15:52 schreef Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I'm creating a new thread as I don't think this project can be included in the experiment proposed by Srishti Sethi et al. If the situation is similar to the Lingua Franca Nova project - I will need to read up about what happened then and see if the same applies here - it can indeed "skip" the Incubator as the incubation phase will simply be considered to have happened elsewhere. Therefore it would not need to be fast-tracked for the experiment. I also think it's not helpful for the experiment, as the experiment wants to compare Incubator with its peculiarities against an own wiki, while this project already uses its own wiki.
Am So., 1. Sept. 2024 um 16:36 Uhr schrieb Jan van Steenbergen < ijzeren.jan@gmail.com>:
Dear Language Committee,
Please allow me, being a non-member but a long-time follower of LangCom, to make a request on behalf of the Interslavic community. Interslavic is an auxiliary Slavic language, intended to be intelligible to speakers of any Slavic language. With a community of ca. 25,000 users and interested bystanders, Interslavic is by far the largest and most active constructed language project after Esperanto nowadays. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interslavic for details.
Interslavic has had its own Wikipedia-inspired wiki since 2007. Currently, it is hosted at Miraheze https://isv.miraheze.org and has nearly 500 articles, most of which are rather decent in size. In addition, it features an elaborate system for transliteration between the Latin and Cyrillic alphabets, as well as several other gadgets and modules.
In April of this year, Interslavic received an ISO 639-3 code (isv). Soon after, a request https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Interslavic was filed for an Interslavic Wikipedia at Meta, and an Interslavic Wikipedia edition https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/isv was started in the Incubator. The logical next step would be transferring the contents of our wiki at Miraheze to the Incubator. This, however, turns out to be more complicated than expected, and as a result, we are kind of stuck in limbo right now.
First of all, having two wikis with partially overlapping content is most inconvenient, with some contributors working in the old wiki and others in the Incubator. An additional problem is that some people have started copying articles manually, whereas everything should be imported along with page histories instead. Once import is done, the idea is to close or even delete the old wiki.
Secondly, I've been told that automated translation cannot be implemented in the Incubator. If this is true, the move to the Incubator would be a serious degradation, as it would defy our main objective. For Interslavic, availability of all wiki content in both scripts is of crucial importance.
Thirdly, moving everything twice is a lot of extra work, especially if it comes with a serious loss in functionality. User:Oostwesthoesbes suggested https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Import_requests#Wp/isv skipping the whole Incubator stage, which apparently has already been done once in the case of Lingua Franca Nova (lfn.wikipedia.org). Would LangCom be willing to consider this solution for Interslavic, too?
Or, more ideally, would LangCom perhaps consider including Interslavic in the experiment that is currently under discussion? For us, the advantages would be tremendous:
- It will save us the trouble of moving everything twice, including adding
and removing prefixes.
- The transliteration facilities that are vital for Interslavic would be
preserved.
- A domain isv.wikipedia.org will give us a lot more visability–for
example, via interwiki links–and generate a lot more activity than the Incubator. Although the Incubator is a great idea in itself, it is not the place where people look for information. Especially since Interslavic is not meant to serve the needs and interests of Interslavic speakers, but to provide understandable information to anyone who knows one of more Slavic languages.
- The criteria for activity are easily met if activity on both wikis is
combined.
- All core messages have already been translated, and the same goes for
many other parts of the interface, ca. 9200 messages in total. See https://codelookup.toolforge.org/isv-latn and https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Isv.
- Eligibility has not been verified yet, but I assume this should be
nothing but a mere formality.
Thanks in advance!
Best regards, Jan van Steenbergen, a.k.a. IJzeren Jan https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:IJzeren_Jan
Op do 22 aug 2024 om 15:52 schreef Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org:
Hello Language Committee,
I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.
Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:
Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.
Exploring social pathways
For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:
Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.
Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299
After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):
Mapudungun
Southern Ndebele
Obolo
Tai Nüa
Pannonian Rusyn
We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.
Cheers,
Srishti
*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
As for Lingua Franca Nova, I haven't been able to find any discussion or decision (neither in the LangCom archives, nor on Meta) about treating its external wiki as a test project. All I know is that it has been present https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wp/lfn&action=history in the Incubator, but I have no idea whether that was really the place where "it" happened. What I do know, however, is that a similar request https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Toki_Pona_2 has been made for Toki Pona: *'This proposal is slightly unusual in that it seeks to have an external wiki considered as the "test project". I have cleared https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=22937919&diff=22958758 with a LangCom member that, at least in principle, this is possible. (If upon further review LangCom decides we must move to Incubator, we are open to it, but would prefer not to for the reasons explained in that discussion.)'*
The difference with LFN and Toki is that Interslavic was never meant to serve as the language of a community of Interslavic speakers in the first place. My ambition for an Interslavic Wikipedia is that it will serve as an additional source of information for those who don't have access to it in their own language. That's why visibility is important, and from that point of view, the Incubator is still a small step forward compared to a place that few people even know about. Besides, there is more activity in the Incubator than in our old wiki at the moment. That activity is likely to increase even further after an interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mZ7UPyQSA I gave about our new Incubator project a few days ago; before that, neither our old wiki nor the Incubator have ever been actively promoted within our groups.
The only real problem is the absence of a transliteration engine in the Incubator. That won't be a problem if it's only for a few months, but such a situation shouldn't linger on for too long. If LangCom would be willing to review (and if all conditions are met, approve) our project before, say, the end of the year, then we can always import the necessary tools from the old wiki once isv.wikipedia.org has been created. That would probably be the easiest solution, now that I think of it.
As for your second point, the experiment, you are probably right about that, although the Incubator and an external wiki have at least one thing in common, namely their relative invisibility compared to a "real" Wikipedia.
By the way, since this thread is now titled "Interslavic", may I ask the Language Committee to verify Interslavic as eligible?
Best regards, Jan van Steenbergen
Op ma 2 sep 2024 om 00:15 schreef MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com:
I'm creating a new thread as I don't think this project can be included in the experiment proposed by Srishti Sethi et al. If the situation is similar to the Lingua Franca Nova project - I will need to read up about what happened then and see if the same applies here - it can indeed "skip" the Incubator as the incubation phase will simply be considered to have happened elsewhere. Therefore it would not need to be fast-tracked for the experiment. I also think it's not helpful for the experiment, as the experiment wants to compare Incubator with its peculiarities against an own wiki, while this project already uses its own wiki. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
