Wiktionary-l September 2004

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13 participants
36 discussions

GEMET and Wikipedia
by Gerard Meijssen 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Gemet is the "GEneral Multilingual Environmental Thesaurus". This thesaurus is maintained by the European Environment Agency. It contains a 5200 + glossary with translations of the words to 20+ languages and descriptions in a few. The EEA wants to have this information in a wiki format, the data is open content. Mr Stefan Jensen, the project manager did sent me a mail as I am preparing to upload a botanical glossary into wiktionary (I said so on the wiktionary list). As the GEMET data is already on-line on the internet, and much better structured than the data that I have, I would first break my teeth on this one and then progress to my own glossary. However, I received a mail which shows how much he would appreciate cooperation; all kinds of people who have expertise in area's like Semantic Web, Ontologies, Thesaury, Topic Maps, XML, RDF, OASIS ... have had my mail forwarded. I have created an article on Meta [[GEneral Multilingual Environmental Thesaurus]]. I copied the mail to the talk page. My plans are simple I want to upload this stuff into nl:Wiktionary. I also plan to tag them with a [[Categorie:GEMET]]. When I have been succesfull, I will also be able to upload it to other wiktionaries. When somebody beats me to it, I will only be pleased. As I have seen many a time on Wikitech stuff about XML etc, it might be a good idea to synchronise what GEMET does and what we do. So please discuss this preferably on Meta, or on the lists. I have no good idea about how difficult this may prove to be.. Again, information on META. Thanks, GerardM

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[Fwd: Re: [Wiktionary-l] Adding a botanical glossary and first letter capitalisation]]
by Gerard Meijssen 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Muke Tever wrote: > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:47:07 +0200, Gerard Meijssen > <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote: > >> I think the second option would be a nice to have while the first is a >> must have. I am convinced there are errors in nl:wiktionary because I >> just do not see the difference between some capital and undercase >> letters, the difference does not register. I can live with the second >> coming life after the first. > > > What kind of fonts are you using that use the same glyphs for > majuscules and minuscules? > > > *Muke! I had to look up the word "majuscule" (it is not in en:wiktionary but in en:wikipedia :) ) to know it means hoofdletter. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with my fonts they do present all characters properly. However, the problem is with me; I do not know these characters. I do not have these characters easily available to me and the result is wrong articles. Only compulive capitalised words should have a capital all the others should not. This is where mistakes creep in. Thanks, Gerard

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GEMET in Wiktionary
by Stefan Jensen 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Dear Gerard, I am happy for this offer and like to share some issues with colleagues of mine involved. I have actually promoted the idea of including GEMET into "the Wicki world" in an international meeting on environmental terminologies in April in Geneva http://ecoinfo.eionet.eu.int/ (see ECOTERM April workshop) and got very positive feedback from the colleagues. I paste this message to the follwing colleagues active around Semantic Web, Ontologies, Thesaury, Topic Maps, XML, RDF, OASIS ... - Bernad Vatant at Mondeca www.mondeca.com - Thomas Bandholtz at http://www.bandholtz.info/index_en.html - Alistair Miles http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/reports/thes/ (You find here links to GEMET in SKOS-RDF - which I guess is the terminolgy format of the sematic web) - Miruna Badescu http://www.finsiel.ro/ is currently building a web service which allows machines to pick up GEMET content (1st version available later in September) - Soren Roug at EEA who has integrated some GEMET contenet into http://cr.eionet.eu.int/search_expert.jsp - a multipurpose RDF harvester Please let us have an exchange on what to do next kind regards Stefan -----Original Message----- From: Gerard Meijssen [mailto:gerardm@myrealbox.com] Sent: 01 September 2004 11:30 To: Stefan Jensen; wiktionary-l(a)Wikipedia.org; Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales Subject: Re: intro to - thematic glossaries in Wictionary Stefan Jensen wrote: >Hi Gerard, >I have subscribed to the Wictionary mailing list but am not in depth following your discussion. I am just getting the idea that you are adding a botanical glossary. >I have earlier on made an offer to add GEMET into Wictionary (5200 term aroun environemnt in 20+ languages). It is jsut that I cannot physically do it ... >I take the freedom to forward you a mail >I sent earlier to you guys bur got only little reply on > >greetings > >Stefan >++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Stefan Jensen >Project Manager >Reporting processes and tools >European Environment Agency >TEL +45 33367232 >GSM +45 23683659 ><http://eionet.eu.int> ><http://eea.eu.int> > > > > > > Thanks for your mail. I am relatively recent on this list, I do not remember to have seen your mail before. I am exited about this possibility. By looking at the data it seems to me that integrating the GEMET data into wiktionary is easier than integrating the glossary that I have myself. When the glossary is integrated into a wiktionary, there are some considerations. # What to do with current wiktionary content. # Do we create the content in all wiktionaries even when there is no description for the term in the local language. # How do we get all wiktionaries ready to easily upload the content. I have started an article on META, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GEneral_Multilingual_Environmental_Thesaurus about integrating the content within wikimedia. Personally I would rather integrate your data first than my glossary as your dat is more relevant. I think it will be valuable to indicate that GEMET data has GEMET as its source. For this the category mechanism comes in handy. All words that are in GEMET, should have a GEMET category. To enhance the wikimedia experience, for all GEMET keywords for which a Wikipedia article exists, should have a link to the wikipedia article.. Thanks, GerardM

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Re: intro to - thematic glossaries in Wictionary
by Gerard Meijssen 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Stefan Jensen wrote: >Hi Gerard, >I have subscribed to the Wictionary mailing list but am not in depth following your discussion. I am just getting the idea that you are adding a botanical glossary. >I have earlier on made an offer to add GEMET into Wictionary (5200 term aroun environemnt in 20+ languages). It is jsut that I cannot physically do it ... >I take the freedom to forward you a mail >I sent earlier to you guys bur got only little reply on > >greetings > >Stefan >++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Stefan Jensen >Project Manager >Reporting processes and tools >European Environment Agency >TEL +45 33367232 >GSM +45 23683659 ><http://eionet.eu.int> ><http://eea.eu.int> > > > > > > Thanks for your mail. I am relatively recent on this list, I do not remember to have seen your mail before. I am exited about this possibility. By looking at the data it seems to me that integrating the GEMET data into wiktionary is easier than integrating the glossary that I have myself. When the glossary is integrated into a wiktionary, there are some considerations. # What to do with current wiktionary content. # Do we create the content in all wiktionaries even when there is no description for the term in the local language. # How do we get all wiktionaries ready to easily upload the content. I have started an article on META, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GEneral_Multilingual_Environmental_Thesaurus about integrating the content within wikimedia. Personally I would rather integrate your data first than my glossary as your dat is more relevant. I think it will be valuable to indicate that GEMET data has GEMET as its source. For this the category mechanism comes in handy. All words that are in GEMET, should have a GEMET category. To enhance the wikimedia experience, for all GEMET keywords for which a Wikipedia article exists, should have a link to the wikipedia article.. Thanks, GerardM

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[Fwd: Re: [Wiktionary-l] Adding a botanical glossary and first letter capitalisation]]
by Gerard Meijssen 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Ray Saintonge wrote: > Gerard Meijssen wrote: > >> I am happy to read that things have been discussed with the >> developpers. However, I find it hard to find what is discussed as the >> link that is referred to is an already old thread on en:wiktionary. >> As a consequence it is not clear and obvious what has been discussed. > > > Agreed, but we're all responsible for that, myself included. The > right thing for me to do would be to refactor my own old comments into > my new ones. :-) > >> An other problem is that as this is not an en:wiktionary only issue, >> meta would be a more obvious choise to host this discussion. > > > Not really. Many of us who are interested in the Wiktionaries may not > check into Meta that often. I would because I'm familiar with the > issue, but I guarantee that there will be some who will complain that > they were not warned about the change. Although I passively support > the change on the other languages my vote there would mean as much as > the votes by IP numbers that now appear in English. It comes down to > a matter of process. In what languages would the knowledgeable people > generally oppose this? Probably the only languages where this might > not be such a big issue are those that do not use capitals in the > first place, > >> To me, there are two issues. >> *Having correct content, this can be better assured without >> capitalisation of the first character. >> *How to find stuff, this may mean that the search may have to be >> blind for capitalisation. >> >> I think the second option would be a nice to have while the first is >> a must have. I am convinced there are errors in nl:wiktionary because >> I just do not see the difference between some capital and undercase >> letters, the difference does not register. I can live with the second >> coming life after the first. > > > I find it hard to conceive how the first would work effectively, > without the second being in place. > > Ec > > _______________________________________________ > Wiktionary-l mailing list > Wiktionary-l(a)Wikipedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l > > The argument against hosting the discussion on meta is equally valid against hosting the discussion on en:wiktionary. People who are at home in another wiktionary and who are intrested in this discussion may not check into en:wiktionary that often. This list is the multi:wiktionary list by its definition and may therefore reach other wiktionaries. Meta is also by design available to host multi:wiktionary discussions. There is no reason not to have a login on Meta, just create your own with your own nick. As to how having the first without the second would work? In the nl:wiktionary typically people speak Dutch and know the Dutch spelling. Most words created in another language are created from the translations of a Dutch word. Therefore when Capitalisation is off, many words may go awol. However they can be found. There will be some problems in getting things to work again properly, that is just tough. That can be handled. All this work needs to be done anyway in any scenario. When a better search becomes available the search for users will become easier, till that time we will have better information. My main concern is that the information is correct. With forced capitalisation is not. As to democracy when asked on nl:wiktionary, there were no dissenting voices. Thanks, Gerard

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] Adding a botanical glossary and first letter capitalisation]
by Gerard Meijssen 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

>I and a couple of the real developers discussed the >various issues and proposed techniques for improving >the capitalisation of Wiki titles as requested by the >various "factions" (: including what non-English >Wiktionaries or at least some of their vocal users >would like. > >I have already experimented with the codebase to come >at this problem in various ways, and Jamesday posted a >summary of what we talked about on IRC at >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/case-sensitivity_vote > >We would like to hear feedback and clarifications >from everybody with your various viewpoints in this >talk page please. > >Andrew Dunbar (hippietrail) > > > I am happy to read that things have been discussed with the developpers. However, I find it hard to find what is discussed as the link that is referred to is an already old thread on en:wiktionary. As a consequence it is not clear and obvious what has been discussed. An other problem is that as this is not an en:wiktionary only issue, meta would be a more obvious choise to host this discussion. To me, there are two issues. *Having correct content, this can be better assured without capitalisation of the first character. *How to find stuff, this may mean that the search may have to be blind for capitalisation. I think the second option would be a nice to have while the first is a must have. I am convinced there are errors in nl:wiktionary because I just do not see the difference between some capital and undercase letters, the difference does not register. I can live with the second coming life after the first. Thanks. Gerard

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Wiktionary-l September 2004