Stefan Jensen wrote:
>Good morning Sabine and everybody,
>Great to see more people joining into the communication. I am not a frequent user of the Wicki discussion tools which Gerhard proposes to use for this but I'll try to move things over to there. (And I see Bernard is already using it).
>
Dear Stefan,
really nice to "cybermeet" ;o) you and the others in this Wiki/EEA ring...
The merit or the blame - you'll see later... - is to be put on that
German Vesuvio ;o) who's definitely SabiNet...
We recently got in touch in a list of discussion - LANGIT - I quitted
very fast, for some reasons, after launching a project, RL - RAPTVS
LINGVÆ, which she was the only replier to.
As soon as Sabine has got some time to explain to me where and how to
effectively start to work in/for Wiki world with the support of EEA
(even if at present I'm already doing/studying really several things,
and would need paid work, I'll be glad to play actually my part, also
owing to its being a good reference on the whole and it will let me learn.
My mother tongue is Italian, which I studied also at the university;
moreover I worked as a professional proofreader and editor for ten years
and am an author.
As for Chinese at least - I can't assure you nothing - but I'm in high
touch with some Chinese linguists (two women) who know English and are
interested in Italian too. They have a sort of translation agency on the
net and I created and moderate an Itlaian subforum on their Chinese
website.
Enough & maybe too much?, for the time being...
ALBatro.
Carme diem,
ALBatro.
__________________________________________________________
Alberto L. Beretta, FIRCA
(Freelance Italian Relations & Communications Assistant).
Italian proofreading - editing - composition - voiceovers - translations
escorting - research - other.
(www.carmediem.it, under refurbishment until 27 Aug.) - info(a)carmediem.it.
Email a.l.beretta(a)virgilio.it, fax on request,
(+39) 02 57501442, home office/study (+39) 338 3524079 (mobile),
Via Pavese 137, 20089 Rozzano (Milan), Italy (EU).
On [[wikt:nl:Egypte]] I have two things that I would like your comments for.
* Under the header for pronounciation, it says on a line: * Geluid: Egypte
When pressing the template for sound ( {{-sound-}}translates to
Geluid ), you get a sound.howto
When pressing on Egypte, the process of letting you hear Egypte will
start (media)
*Under the header for Translations, there are three lines for Portugese;
* Indicating Portugese
One line with Brazilian Portugese and the word
One line with Portugese Portugese and the word
With the first thing I think I give ample attention to the potential
problems with sound. When there is a SAMPA transliteration, it would be
on a seperate line and the SAMPA would get you to something about SAMPA,
With the second thing I think I have a proper way of presenting
alternate standard translations within one language. the templates used
are {{pr br}} and {{pt pt}}
Thanks,
GerardM
I want to inform you all that the nl:wiktionary has reached its 5000th
article. The word was Italie (French for Italy).
To celebrate it, I have uploaded 100 spoken words to Commons. They are
in the format xx-word.ogg xx for the ISO 639 code, word, is the spoken
word and .ogg because that is the sound format that we use.
Thanks,
:) GerardM
Hoi,
I have been working really hard checking the 4800 words that are in
nl:wiktionary and converting them to undercase when needed. This is a
big task because the nl:wiktionary has grown quite a lot. I am thankfull
that we have to do this now and not a few thousand words later. As I got
bored and wanted to do something else as well, I have created a
soundfile called nl-Nederlands.ogg. I created this using Audacity which
was recommended to me (thanks :) ).
Audacity saved it for me as an ogg file and I have uploaded it to
nl:wiktionary. To my amazement, it identified itself as
*afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg* (afbeelding means image). I expected that
I would be able to hear it, but I get a message telling me that the
operating system does not know what to do with the format. I installed
the real player it does not know what to do with it, I tried the Windows
thingie, same fiasco.
I had a look at META to see if I could find anything about .ogg files;
nothing. So, I had to be "adventurous" (I hate being adventurous) and
found that a Media player called "Ashampoo" could do the trick where the
conventional stuff fails miserably. It does indeed not only play ogg files.
The listening part of the file in wiktionary is a joke. It does say
Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg
<http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg> and when
you click it, you get a details screen while I expect to hear something,
On this screen it is not immediately obvious what to do but there is an
nl-Nederlands.ogg It
<http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg> text. When
you press this, you finally get to hear a word; the pronounciation of
"Nederlands" spoken by me.
The reason why I use so many words is, because .ogg files are the
recommended sound files. I expect that when you select one it will not
say image but *sound*, and when I press it, that it will try to let me
hear something. After this I wanted to check what it does with .wav
files but, they are not allowed anymore :(
An other issue is that sound files are worthwhile resources for
wiktionaries; how better to demonstrate pronounciation ?? When a naming
convention is used like xx-word where xx is the ISO 639 code and word,
well the word, you will get thousands of files. It would be really good
if COMMONS was the place where these sound files are uploaded to.
Questions:
* How can I make the .ogg file execute immediately (without a detail
screen) ?
*When can I upload sound files to COMMONS so that every wiktionary can
share this and similar resources ?
<http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg>* What can
we do to make it easier for people to use .ogg ? Having loads of them
helps as well !!
Thanks,
GerardM
Hi, I am still working on those neverending language list :-))
During the last days I received some glossaries Neapolitan-Italian and
Neapolitan-English and so I was asking myself and some other people if
it would be better to integrate Neapolitan in the Italian wiktionary or
create a separate one. Considering that Neapolitan is an own language
with own grammar, literature and is spoken by quite many people (besides
the fact that there is an organisation caring about the language itself)
I feel that an own wiktioary would be appropriate.
Now the related problems are several ones:
1) capitalisation - which seems to be solved :-)
2) since even in this case I'd prefer to create extensive tables with
translations into many languages: import/export possibilities are needed
- so I'd wait for this step to be taken since as far as I understood the
Environmental glossary needs these features as well.
3) Translate the interface into Neapolitan - this is my personal mayor
problem, but the solution is there: I'd say to start the wiktionary with
an Italian interface and after having uploaded quite a huge number of
entries we'll ask for the help of people actually writing in Neapolitan.
So for now out of these lists I create the offline contents in a
relationa database adding translation into as many languages as possible
- of course trying to add more than only the different translations to
the table (like noun, adjective, feminin, masculin etc.). As soon as
there's the possibility to use the database there's no problem to think
about another very particular language.
And now you'd like to know why I am talking about a "very particular
language" ... just for a moment think about which traditional Italian
music you know - I bet that most of the songs are Neapolitan ;-)
Thank you for all your effors and have a great evening!
Ciao, Sabine
--
Sabine Cretella
s.cretella(a)wordsandmore.it
www.wordsandmore.it
Meetingplace for translators
www.wesolveitnet.com
Hi,
There is another reason to differentiate capitalized words.
I think that the first useful use of Wiktionary is to learn a foreign
language, especially for a beginner. You don't need a complete dictionary for
that, you just need the most common words, which you already have in English,
or will have soon in other languages.
If I use Wiktionary to learn English, I need to know that the language of
England is spelled [[English]] and not [[english]], and that the fist month
of the year is written [[January]] and not [[january]]. The same situation
occurs in any language which uses capitals (English, German, French, etc.).
In German, a cat is spelled [[Katze]] and not [[katze]], and in French,
[[chat]] and not [[Chat]].
Regards,
Yann
--
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Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote on wikitech-l:
>This has already been discussed at great length both on wikien and on
>wikipedia talk:sound, and the overwhelming consensus was not to use
>none-free formats which would possibly lock us into proprietery
>software.
>
It is nice to see that things are discussed on wikien and on wikipedia,
it is also nice that some sort of consensus was reached. I hope you can
agree with me on two points.
* Not everyone discusses on wikien and en:wikipedia.
* If such a consensus does not result in some good explanations on how
to use .ogg files it is empty talk.
I care little for people's opinion when they do not back it up with
walking their talk. When people are to use .ogg in stead of .wav files
or whatever, I expect that it must be simple to use this format. When it
is not, it is astounding that I fail to find an "howto use sound" in
wikipedia. Apparently the great moral issues are more important than the
practicalities.
I really appreciate it when a message can be as informative as "use
media". Thanks again Brion :).
I am aware that Jimbo does want us to use .ogg files that is why I went
this route. The reasons why are good enough for ME. But I think the
explantions in wikimedia on how and why we use .ogg files really suck. I
also think that we can do better. When we are going to upload thousants
of pronounciations using .ogg files, we create a standard. This will be
a wobly standard when we do not help our users with some easy
explanations on how to listen to it. We will not get all these .ogg
files when we do not find people to record their pronounciations and
explain how to record .ogg files.
So far I have only learned about ashampoo and audacity. There are
perhaps better tools, I am convinced that there are people on the list
that do know better than me.
Thanks,
GerardM
LS,
As a thank you to my French friends who changed the capitalisation of
the first character, I have edited the [[fr:Wiktionnaire:Liste des
langues]] by changing all the templates that are used on this page. This
will enable them to get the translations that are on the nl:page for the
languages mentioned.
Thanks again,
GerardM
After the changes in the capitalisation, I have made MAJOR changes
already with regard changing to underscore templates.
I do not know who decided to roll back the capitalisation, but the
result is that the nl:wiktionary is broken.
Please let us have the capitalisation turned off because now we are
truly f***ed.
Thanks,
GerardM
Hi,
Capitalisation is now only an option in the French Wiktionary.
So, f.e., now [[allemand]] and [[Allemand]] are two different articles.
All language names are lower cases in French.
Thanks,
Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux