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5000th article on nl:wiktionary !!

New language: Neapolitan + when,...

Gerard Meijssen

25 Sep 2004 25 Sep '04

9:45 p.m.

Hoi, I have been working really hard checking the 4800 words that are in nl:wiktionary and converting them to undercase when needed. This is a big task because the nl:wiktionary has grown quite a lot. I am thankfull that we have to do this now and not a few thousand words later. As I got bored and wanted to do something else as well, I have created a soundfile called nl-Nederlands.ogg. I created this using Audacity which was recommended to me (thanks :) ). Audacity saved it for me as an ogg file and I have uploaded it to nl:wiktionary. To my amazement, it identified itself as *afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg* (afbeelding means image). I expected that I would be able to hear it, but I get a message telling me that the operating system does not know what to do with the format. I installed the real player it does not know what to do with it, I tried the Windows thingie, same fiasco. I had a look at META to see if I could find anything about .ogg files; nothing. So, I had to be "adventurous" (I hate being adventurous) and found that a Media player called "Ashampoo" could do the trick where the conventional stuff fails miserably. It does indeed not only play ogg files. The listening part of the file in wiktionary is a joke. It does say Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg <http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg> and when you click it, you get a details screen while I expect to hear something, On this screen it is not immediately obvious what to do but there is an nl-Nederlands.ogg It <http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg> text. When you press this, you finally get to hear a word; the pronounciation of "Nederlands" spoken by me. The reason why I use so many words is, because .ogg files are the recommended sound files. I expect that when you select one it will not say image but *sound*, and when I press it, that it will try to let me hear something. After this I wanted to check what it does with .wav files but, they are not allowed anymore :( An other issue is that sound files are worthwhile resources for wiktionaries; how better to demonstrate pronounciation ?? When a naming convention is used like xx-word where xx is the ISO 639 code and word, well the word, you will get thousands of files. It would be really good if COMMONS was the place where these sound files are uploaded to. Questions: * How can I make the .ogg file execute immediately (without a detail screen) ? *When can I upload sound files to COMMONS so that every wiktionary can share this and similar resources ? <http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg>* What can we do to make it easier for people to use .ogg ? Having loads of them helps as well !! Thanks, GerardM

Show replies by date

26 Sep 26 Sep

6:50 a.m.

Hi Gerard, I added sound to this page as well. On Linux it plays automatically, but way too fast. (I recorded it on Windows and then I converted it, if I remember well) http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/What%27s_your_name%3F Can you hear it correctly (on Windows)? Jo

Gerard Meijssen

7 a.m.

Jo wrote:

...

It sounds good on Windhoos.. I will place all sounds under the {{-pron-}} template (which should translate itself to "Uitspraak" or "Pronounciation"). By having these fixed places, the nl:wiktionary sets itself up to be easily migrated into a database format. I am currently checking the capitalisation and I have done the HIJKLMNOPQR U - I am working on the S at the moment. One of the things that is noticable is that some words for languages are capitalised and others are not in the same language. I would think that there would be a rule that all names for languages are capitalised (like en: and nl:) or not (like fr: fi: it:). Thanks, GerardM

Yann Forget

7:59 a.m.

Hi, Le Sunday 26 September 2004 09:00, Gerard Meijssen a écrit :

...

Jo wrote: > Hi Gerard, > > I added sound to this page as well. On Linux it plays automatically, > but way too fast. (I recorded it on Windows and then I converted it, > if I remember well) > > http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/What%27s_your_name%3F > > Can you hear it correctly (on Windows)?

No problem to listen to this on Linux with Kplayer as well as the .ogg file http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Afbeelding:nl-Nederlands.ogg. I think any sound software can be used on Linux, they all support OGG as a standard.

...

> Jo

IMO, it's just a matter of providing the right plug-in with the information how to install it if needed. I don't want MP3 files in Wikimedia projects. Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux

Ray Saintonge

27 Sep 27 Sep

1:01 a.m.

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

...

I am currently checking the capitalisation and I have done the HIJKLMNOPQR U - I am working on the S at the moment. One of the things that is noticable is that some words for languages are capitalised and others are not in the same language. I would think that there would be a rule that all names for languages are capitalised (like en: and nl:) or not (like fr: fi: it:).

The English tendency is certainly to capitalize the language or national name when there is a clear connection, but one would still have an "english horn", "franch safe" and "chinese cabbage". The rule in this regard is unstable. Ec

Gerard Meijssen

28 Sep 28 Sep

10:43 a.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

Ray Saintonge wrote:

...

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

The "english horn" would be a seperate entry in a wiktionary. What I am concerned with at the moment are that ALL nouns for a lanuage in French are not capitalised. I have languages where the entries are not consequent. I would like to have people check this out for me. It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language. At this moment the "wikt" template is working again in wikipedia. As the dictionary content is more and more available and moved from wikipedia, I find that the numbers of visitors in nl:wiktionary is increasing. Best of all, there are more people contributing to nl:wiktionary as a result. Thanks, GerardM

Muke Tever

2:18 p.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

...

It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language.

Up to five hundred words. Not nearly "all". *Muke! -- website: http://frath.net/ LiveJournal: http://kohath.livejournal.com/ deviantArt: http://kohath.deviantart.com/ FrathWiki, a conlang and conculture wiki: http://wiki.frath.net/

Gerard Meijssen

3:07 p.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

Muke Tever wrote:

...

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language.

Up to five hundred words. Not nearly "all". *Muke!

Muke, at this point in time with *4925* words in nl:wiktionary 500 words is sufficient. When I have finished with the conversion, I will look into using the output from queries to create content pages for the languages. This will overcome the still theoretic limit of 500 words. One question, do you have something positive to say as well, or can you only repeat yourself? I have heard you say this more than once. PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you tried it ? Did you find any problems on the nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better alternative ? Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I prefer something positive in stead of something negative. Thanks, GerardM

Ray Saintonge

4:29 p.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

...

Muke Tever wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language.

Up to five hundred words. Not nearly "all". *Muke!

en:wiktionary has over 46,000 entries. I don't know if Muke participates on nl, but I assume not. Your scheme may work very well there, and that's fine. But please don't extrapolate that into an excuse for it being a good thing on en, where the support for it is far from unanimous. Ec

Gerard Meijssen

6:16 p.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

Ray Saintonge wrote:

...

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

Muke Tever wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language.

Up to five hundred words. Not nearly "all". *Muke!

Please read the post. I do not say anything about en:wiktionary in the post that Muke replies to. What I object to is him giving a negative comment which may make people determine not to give the help that I ask for. Indeed, Muke does not contribute to nl: He replies with something that is totally irrelevant to the nl:wiktionary. This mailing list is, if I am well informed, to discuss things that are pertinent to wikitonary. That includes the nl:wiktionary. If I can handle 5000 words on my own, it should be possible to do things on en: as well. I know that there are more than 9 people contributing on en:. So if I want to extrapolate the nl: experience to en: than it should be feasible to do whatever to the en:wiktionary content. I may even be one of the people helping out when need be on en:wiktionary. I know for a fact that it will be much harder to convert the English wiktionary as it is not as structured as the nl:wiktionary is. However, if you ask me, there is much more that needs to be done to the en:wiktionary content than just changing the first characters. I appreciate that this will be a daunting task and, it would be better to have the change of the first characters be part of a larger overhaul. When you read the discussion about capitalisation of the first character, you will read that my major gripe was that the decision on en: stopped the nl, the fr:, the de: maybe the it: wiktionary from converting to a more correct system of representing *words*. Something that is radically different from wikipedia where you represent concepts. Luckily the change in capitalisation happened before nl:wiktionary reached 5000 words. It is a shame that it did not happen when I asked for it, it would have saved me doing a lot of work. To recap what I asked for in my original post, I expect there to be a consistency within one language with regard to the nouns that are languages. I expect them all to be capitalised like in German, English and Dutch or none of them like Italian and French. Currently there are languages where things are sometimes capitalised and sometimes not. Please have a look in the nl:wiktionary, because of the size of the nl:wiktionary you *can* look up the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language. Thanks, GerardM

Muke Tever

5:15 p.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:07:44 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

...

It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language.

Up to five hundred words. Not nearly "all".

Only as you keep repeating that it will give "all" words, which implies continuity.

...

PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you tried it ? Did you find any problems on the nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better alternative ? Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I prefer something positive in stead of something negative.

I have already suggested putting words in categories. You can add [[Category:Nederlands]] to your [[Template:-nl-]]. Perhaps Mediawiki doesn't handle large categories well yet, but it is better than whatlinkshere, and since you only have 4925 words so far, the developers will have time to make the categories efficienter before you begin to stress them--even if such doesn't happen to be the case, an index could be made from the category listing, and the category link removed from the template. (Still, I wouldn't try this on en, though we are doing it on la, which by no accounts is expected to grow _very_ large.) *Muke! -- website: http://frath.net/ LiveJournal: http://kohath.livejournal.com/ deviantArt: http://kohath.deviantart.com/ FrathWiki, a conlang and conculture wiki: http://wiki.frath.net/

Andrew Dunbar

29 Sep 29 Sep

12:17 a.m.

New subject: Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of "wikt"

--- Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

...

Muke Tever wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote:

It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you all the words in a language.

Up to five hundred words. Not nearly "all". *Muke!

theoretic

...

limit of 500 words. One question, do you have something positive to say as well, or can you only repeat yourself? I have heard you say this more than once. PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you tried it ? Did you find any problems on the nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better alternative ? Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I prefer something positive in stead of something negative. Thanks, GerardM

Hey guys the best way to do *big* changes like this is to download the whole database and at least *find* all the articles which need changing on your own computer at home. Then you can go back and implement all the changes online. If you know how you could do a lot of it with a bot but that's not necessary. Andrew Dunbar (hippietrail) ===== http://linguaphile.sf.net/cgi-bin/translator.pl http://www.abisource.com ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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participants (6)

Andrew Dunbar
Gerard Meijssen
Jo
Muke Tever
Ray Saintonge
Yann Forget