Muke Tever wrote:
Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Who contributes simply takes the words he is "moving" (working on) off the list - the admins have enough work with deleting all the re-directs (or is there a way to do this automatically) maybe modifying the page and writing "to be deleted" instead of the re-direct?
Why delete the redirects? You'll break all the old pages on the web that link to Wiktionary articles.
You'll have to think of other wikimedia sites too. For example en.wikipedia's "link to Wiktionary" template currently just uses {{PAGENAME}}, which will always be capitalized, because Wikipedia capitalizes all topics it treats.
*Muke!
Hoi, You delete the redirects because they are plain wrong. A word that has has both a capitalised version and a non capitalised version will be split into two versions. The usage of wikipedia's link to Wiktionary currently does indeed use PAGENAME, how do you know that it still refers to the correct version of the word ?? You do not ! So it needs to be changed as PAGENAME is not good enough.
It is feasible to change the PAGENAME to something else for instance a genuine parameter that is either capitalised or not. I think it would be feasible to have a bot check the occrurence of the old template and change it for a capitalised or an uncapitalised REAL parameter. So practically all the instances of the current template need to be changed anyway.
The decision of the capitalisation on en:wiktionary has been made, now it is necessary to plan a good conversion plan. It will hurt and it will be a lot of work. Extra painfull is the fact that the en:wiktionary did not agree to change the first time round because MANY new words have been added in the mean time. I think it is better to suffer a bit and do a good job than to do an incomplete job and not remove the pain.
One other reason why you want to change the current wiktionary content is because you will not add redirects for all the new words that will be added in the future.
Thanks, GerardM
...speaking of which, capitalisation is a problem on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_languages will give you a page different from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of_languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIST_OF_LANGUAGES
The arguement against removing capitalisation sensitivity is in my opinion a very weak one: the number of cases for which it serves as a natural disambiguation is very very small, and even in those cases somebody might use capitals or not use capitals and inadvertently end up at the wrong article.
I think we need to get rid of case sensitivity once and for all.
Mark
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:27:41 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Muke Tever wrote:
Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Who contributes simply takes the words he is "moving" (working on) off the list - the admins have enough work with deleting all the re-directs (or is there a way to do this automatically) maybe modifying the page and writing "to be deleted" instead of the re-direct?
Why delete the redirects? You'll break all the old pages on the web that link to Wiktionary articles.
You'll have to think of other wikimedia sites too. For example en.wikipedia's "link to Wiktionary" template currently just uses {{PAGENAME}}, which will always be capitalized, because Wikipedia capitalizes all topics it treats.
*Muke!Hoi, You delete the redirects because they are plain wrong. A word that has has both a capitalised version and a non capitalised version will be split into two versions. The usage of wikipedia's link to Wiktionary currently does indeed use PAGENAME, how do you know that it still refers to the correct version of the word ?? You do not ! So it needs to be changed as PAGENAME is not good enough.
It is feasible to change the PAGENAME to something else for instance a genuine parameter that is either capitalised or not. I think it would be feasible to have a bot check the occrurence of the old template and change it for a capitalised or an uncapitalised REAL parameter. So practically all the instances of the current template need to be changed anyway.
The decision of the capitalisation on en:wiktionary has been made, now it is necessary to plan a good conversion plan. It will hurt and it will be a lot of work. Extra painfull is the fact that the en:wiktionary did not agree to change the first time round because MANY new words have been added in the mean time. I think it is better to suffer a bit and do a good job than to do an incomplete job and not remove the pain.
One other reason why you want to change the current wiktionary content is because you will not add redirects for all the new words that will be added in the future.
Thanks, GerardM _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Mark, It is simple, this posting is about things that will happen on the en:wiktionary. It is not an encyclopedia but a dictionary. It is not an English dictionary only and it includes words of potentially any language. In a dictionary you expect to find words as they should be spelled. Having them capitalised is plain wrong. Consequently the current methodology of linking from the en:wikipedia to the en:wiktionary will break. So work needs to be done to correct this. We hope we will be able to do a lot of the work by using bots.
I hope you will be giving us a helping hand in this big undertaking. Again this has nothing to do with the capitalisation of articles on the en:wikipedia.
Thanks in advance, GerardM
Mark Williamson wrote:
...speaking of which, capitalisation is a problem on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_languages will give you a page different from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of_languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIST_OF_LANGUAGES
The arguement against removing capitalisation sensitivity is in my opinion a very weak one: the number of cases for which it serves as a natural disambiguation is very very small, and even in those cases somebody might use capitals or not use capitals and inadvertently end up at the wrong article.
I think we need to get rid of case sensitivity once and for all.
Mark
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:27:41 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Muke Tever wrote:
Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Who contributes simply takes the words he is "moving" (working on) off the list - the admins have enough work with deleting all the re-directs (or is there a way to do this automatically) maybe modifying the page and writing "to be deleted" instead of the re-direct?
Why delete the redirects? You'll break all the old pages on the web that link to Wiktionary articles.
You'll have to think of other wikimedia sites too. For example en.wikipedia's "link to Wiktionary" template currently just uses {{PAGENAME}}, which will always be capitalized, because Wikipedia capitalizes all topics it treats.
*Muke!
Hoi, You delete the redirects because they are plain wrong. A word that has has both a capitalised version and a non capitalised version will be split into two versions. The usage of wikipedia's link to Wiktionary currently does indeed use PAGENAME, how do you know that it still refers to the correct version of the word ?? You do not ! So it needs to be changed as PAGENAME is not good enough.
It is feasible to change the PAGENAME to something else for instance a genuine parameter that is either capitalised or not. I think it would be feasible to have a bot check the occrurence of the old template and change it for a capitalised or an uncapitalised REAL parameter. So practically all the instances of the current template need to be changed anyway.
The decision of the capitalisation on en:wiktionary has been made, now it is necessary to plan a good conversion plan. It will hurt and it will be a lot of work. Extra painfull is the fact that the en:wiktionary did not agree to change the first time round because MANY new words have been added in the mean time. I think it is better to suffer a bit and do a good job than to do an incomplete job and not remove the pain.
One other reason why you want to change the current wiktionary content is because you will not add redirects for all the new words that will be added in the future.
Thanks, GerardM
Do you know the meaning of the phrase "speaking of which"?
Mark
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:17:54 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Mark, It is simple, this posting is about things that will happen on the en:wiktionary. It is not an encyclopedia but a dictionary. It is not an English dictionary only and it includes words of potentially any language. In a dictionary you expect to find words as they should be spelled. Having them capitalised is plain wrong. Consequently the current methodology of linking from the en:wikipedia to the en:wiktionary will break. So work needs to be done to correct this. We hope we will be able to do a lot of the work by using bots.
I hope you will be giving us a helping hand in this big undertaking. Again this has nothing to do with the capitalisation of articles on the en:wikipedia.
Thanks in advance, GerardM
Mark Williamson wrote:
...speaking of which, capitalisation is a problem on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_languages will give you a page different from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of_languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIST_OF_LANGUAGES
The arguement against removing capitalisation sensitivity is in my opinion a very weak one: the number of cases for which it serves as a natural disambiguation is very very small, and even in those cases somebody might use capitals or not use capitals and inadvertently end up at the wrong article.
I think we need to get rid of case sensitivity once and for all.
Mark
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:27:41 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Muke Tever wrote:
Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Who contributes simply takes the words he is "moving" (working on) off the list - the admins have enough work with deleting all the re-directs (or is there a way to do this automatically) maybe modifying the page and writing "to be deleted" instead of the re-direct?
Why delete the redirects? You'll break all the old pages on the web that link to Wiktionary articles.
You'll have to think of other wikimedia sites too. For example en.wikipedia's "link to Wiktionary" template currently just uses {{PAGENAME}}, which will always be capitalized, because Wikipedia capitalizes all topics it treats.
*Muke!
Hoi, You delete the redirects because they are plain wrong. A word that has has both a capitalised version and a non capitalised version will be split into two versions. The usage of wikipedia's link to Wiktionary currently does indeed use PAGENAME, how do you know that it still refers to the correct version of the word ?? You do not ! So it needs to be changed as PAGENAME is not good enough.
It is feasible to change the PAGENAME to something else for instance a genuine parameter that is either capitalised or not. I think it would be feasible to have a bot check the occrurence of the old template and change it for a capitalised or an uncapitalised REAL parameter. So practically all the instances of the current template need to be changed anyway.
The decision of the capitalisation on en:wiktionary has been made, now it is necessary to plan a good conversion plan. It will hurt and it will be a lot of work. Extra painfull is the fact that the en:wiktionary did not agree to change the first time round because MANY new words have been added in the mean time. I think it is better to suffer a bit and do a good job than to do an incomplete job and not remove the pain.
One other reason why you want to change the current wiktionary content is because you will not add redirects for all the new words that will be added in the future.
Thanks, GerardM
Mark Williamson wrote:
...speaking of which, capitalisation is a problem on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_languages will give you a page different from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of_languages or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIST_OF_LANGUAGES
The arguement against removing capitalisation sensitivity is in my opinion a very weak one: the number of cases for which it serves as a natural disambiguation is very very small, and even in those cases somebody might use capitals or not use capitals and inadvertently end up at the wrong article.
I think we need to get rid of case sensitivity once and for all.
The only argument against it is that it will require some effort to implement and work into the existing system, and there are plenty of bigger priorities.
We'll be in a better position to do this after the MediaWiki 1.5 release; the restructured tables will be lighter and easier to change.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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