Hello,
as you know at the moment Wikipedia is stil blocked from the china mainland gouvement. But this is probably not their only measure against the WikiMedia-projects.
Please take a look at the following site: http://www.wikicn.com/wiki/%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies. They call themselve the first chinese wiki encyclopedia and had (machine) copied over tens of thousands of articles from the chinese Wikipedia site, without mentioning their source, and without any hint of GFDL. Most articles has stil the interwiki-links in them, natuarally without any other language provided from this site. Further more they have cencored most of the sensitive articles, which could probably be the reason of the blocking.
Is there any possibility from the board to take any action? A mention of the source and GFDL is in my oppinion the fundamental action, which they should take.
Greetings Ting ([[:en:User:Philopp]] [[:de:User:Wing]] [[:zh:User:Wing]]
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005, Ting Chen wrote:
Hello,
as you know at the moment Wikipedia is stil blocked from the china mainland gouvement. But this is probably not their only measure against the WikiMedia-projects.
Please take a look at the following site: http://www.wikicn.com/wiki/%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies. They call themselve the first chinese wiki encyclopedia and had (machine) copied over tens of thousands of articles from the chinese Wikipedia site,
I can't read Chinese, but I see that they have copied user and discussion pages too..
Alfio
Is there any possibility from the board to take any action? A mention of the source and GFDL is in my oppinion the fundamental action, which they should take.
I might be better for someone to write to them in Chinese. Is there any sign as to whether they are doing this maliciously or whether they simply don't understand the terms of the license? Are any of the people working on the site known to the Chinese Wikipedia community?
Angela.
I might be better for someone to write to them in Chinese. Is there any sign as to whether they are doing this maliciously or whether they simply don't understand the terms of the license? Are any of the people working on the site known to the Chinese Wikipedia community?
If I say, this is an attempt of the chinese gouvement to "hijack" chinese Wikipedia, than this is my own oppinion and I confess, I have no proof for my suspicion. But there are some evidences:
For one, the site is sponcored from the gouvenment or gouvenment own institutions or companies. At the head of their homepage they confess that they get gouvenmental support: 本维客得到了2003年教育部哲学社会科学研究重大课题攻关项目：博客(Blog)技术及其对组织沟通和社会交流方式的影响研究的支持。(which means: This wiki got support from "2003 ministry of education important project for philosophical and social science: studying of Blog technique and its enhancement of organizational and social communication"). For my own oppinion and experience in the PRC, the formulation can also be read as "... of Blog technique and its enhancement of propaganda".
Second, just to the time when all WikiMedia projects are blocked from mainland China, this copy of Wikipedia named them self in Wiki China and announce itself as the first chinese wiki encyclopedia. I do have the suspect that the two actions are connected.
As for the GFDL. As I mentioned above. These are not some amatuers or startup companies. These are professionals. I think they know quite well what GFDL means. But on the other hand. They can also say: well, GFDL is an american licence, it has no meaning in China. So we don't need to mention it or to obay it.
Ting.
As for the GFDL. As I mentioned above. These are not some amatuers or startup companies. These are professionals. I think they know quite well what GFDL means. But on the other hand. They can also say: well, GFDL is an american licence, it has no meaning in China. So we don't need to mention it or to obay it.
Actually China is now a member of the Bern Convention. Thus they respect copyright, even foreigner's copyrights. Then, the GFDL can have full effect in China.
Angela wrote:
Is there any possibility from the board to take any action? A mention of the source and GFDL is in my oppinion the fundamental action, which they should take.
I might be better for someone to write to them in Chinese. Is there any sign as to whether they are doing this maliciously or whether they simply don't understand the terms of the license? Are any of the people working on the site known to the Chinese Wikipedia community?
Angela.
I am terribly sorry Angela but do you really feel they could do this in error?????????????????
Blocking us the moment they go in the air with copied content from us ?????????
Accident?????????
You should life in a country with a (semi)dictatorship for a while .... you will know better than giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Walter/Waerth
....... and yes Thailand is slowly becoming a dictatorship unfortunately
On 10/30/05, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
I am terribly sorry Angela but do you really feel they could do this in error?????????????????
I'm unable to see the site, so I'm assuming good faith. I was previously getting timeouts, then 404 errors, and now all I see is the standard "This wiki does not exist yet" error message, with the logo from meta - the exact same page you get if you go to http://tokipona.wikinews.org/ for example.
Angela.
The situation escalated today morning. Someone, probably some chinese Wikipedian hacked the site of Wiki China and deformated the homepage. Probably they even deleted some content. At first they placed an announcement we were just formulating in the chinese Wikipedia. You can see the announcment and the deformed homepage of Wiki China here:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:%E7%BB%B4%E5%AE%A2%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD
This action is a deed of one or several people. It does not represent the oppinion of the chinese wikipedia community. But because one of our announcement draft was placed on the deformed page. We have formulated a statement on our own home page to say that this action is not an action of the chinese community and that we condumn any hacker attack on who so ever.
Regards Ting.
I'm unable to see the site, so I'm assuming good faith. I was previously getting timeouts, then 404 errors, and now all I see is the standard "This wiki does not exist yet" error message, with the logo
from meta - the exact same page you get if you go to
http://tokipona.wikinews.org/ for example.
Ting Chen wrote:
The situation escalated today morning. Someone, probably some chinese Wikipedian hacked the site of Wiki China and deformated the homepage. Probably they even deleted some content. At first they placed an announcement we were just formulating in the chinese Wikipedia. You can see the announcment and the deformed homepage of Wiki China here:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:%E7%BB%B4%E5%AE%A2%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD
This action is a deed of one or several people. It does not represent the oppinion of the chinese wikipedia community. But because one of our announcement draft was placed on the deformed page. We have formulated a statement on our own home page to say that this action is not an action of the chinese community and that we condumn any hacker attack on who so ever.
Regards
Well whether you denounce it ...... I applaud it. Long life that hacker.
Walter/Waerth
We should not sink to the low level that the teenage crackers dude. Hacking is not ethical.
On 10/30/05, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
Ting Chen wrote:
The situation escalated today morning. Someone, probably some chinese Wikipedian hacked the site of Wiki China and deformated the homepage. Probably they even deleted some content. At first they placed an announcement we were just formulating in the chinese Wikipedia. You can
see
the announcment and the deformed homepage of Wiki China here:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:%E7%BB%B4%E5%AE%A2%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD
This action is a deed of one or several people. It does not represent the oppinion of the chinese wikipedia community. But because one of our announcement draft was placed on the deformed page. We have formulated a statement on our own home page to say that this action is not an action
of
the chinese community and that we condumn any hacker attack on who so
ever.
Regards
Well whether you denounce it ...... I applaud it. Long life that hacker.
Walter/Waerth _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Han Dao wrote:
We should not sink to the low level that the teenage crackers dude. Hacking is not ethical.
I would agree with you on that. But what is currently happening and what some forces in China are doing is not ethical either. I am not saying we should do these things ourselves, nor do I want to encourage anybody to do this. I do say though that there is no reason why we can not have a good smirk at this :) , we are literally being ****ed over by a dictatorial system which is striving for total mindcontrol of its population, somthing the Thaksin administration is copying in Thailand currently, and we are doing nothing about it really so yes I hate hacking, but oen the other hand it is great to see some resistance. And I would love to know what is written there.
I personally have the feeling that the Chinese govt or whichever forces in the mainland are responsible for this should be made to loose face about this issue by now. We have been polite with them many times. It didn't work. I personally feel that we should make this an about face issue. So I personally call on the board to start taking this issue to a broader audience.
Walter/Waerth
On 10/30/05, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
Han Dao wrote:
We should not sink to the low level that the teenage crackers dude.
Hacking
is not ethical.
I would agree with you on that. But what is currently happening and what some forces in China are doing is not ethical either. I am not saying we should do these things ourselves, nor do I want to encourage anybody to do this. I do say though that there is no reason why we can not have a good smirk at this :) , we are literally being ****ed over by a dictatorial system which is striving for total mindcontrol of its population, somthing the Thaksin administration is copying in Thailand currently, and we are doing nothing about it really so yes I hate hacking, but oen the other hand it is great to see some resistance. And I would love to know what is written there.
I personally have the feeling that the Chinese govt or whichever forces in the mainland are responsible for this should be made to loose face about this issue by now. We have been polite with them many times. It didn't work. I personally feel that we should make this an about face issue. So I personally call on the board to start taking this issue to a broader audience.
Walter/Waerth
Hoi, When you want to make it a "face" issue, it has to be a "face" issue for those who try make wikipedia their own in China and perhaps make some money out of it. If you want to get more out of it, you are reaching for the moon. With the previous instances of a block, it took some time before access was restored. Suggesting that this was not done by quiet and effective diplomatic ways seems to me like a misrepresentation.. When a storm has flattened the reeds, it takes the reeds some time to resume its position, the trees however that have fallen stay down. (not suggesting that this is an old Chinese saying, but it comes to mind .. :) )
Thanks, GerardM
On 10/31/05, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
Han Dao wrote:
We should not sink to the low level that the teenage crackers dude. Hacking is not ethical.
I would agree with you on that. But what is currently happening and what some forces in China are doing is not ethical either. I am not saying we should do these things ourselves, nor do I want to encourage anybody to do this. I do say though that there is no reason why we can not have a good smirk at this :) , we are literally being ****ed over by a dictatorial system which is striving for total mindcontrol of its population,
China is not a dictatorial system, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone knowledgeable about it that would describe it as so. Authoritarian, socio-captialist, schizophrenic, but hardly dictatorial. Though it is annoying to be without the "complete" Internet in the PRC, total mindcontrol is an exaggeration.
somthing the Thaksin administration is copying in Thailand currently, and we are doing nothing about it really so yes I hate hacking, but oen the other hand it is great to see some resistance. And I would love to know what is written there.
Some of it talked of shameless copying from Wikipedia, others posted the proxy information on how to reach the real Wikipedia, etc. As for Thaksin, I think Berlusconi is perhaps a better analogy.
I personally have the feeling that the Chinese govt or whichever forces in the mainland are responsible for this should be made to loose face about this issue by now. We have been polite with them many times. It didn't work.
Depends on what value of "didn't work." ZH has been blocked less than 6 weeks total, over the last four years.
I personally feel that we should make this an about face issue. So I personally call on the board to start taking this issue to a broader audience.
Give it at least as long as the longest previous block (19 days), and a bigger stink can be raised then. Chinese Internet users have learned to take it in stride, using the opportunity to probe the limits of content. There are other alternatives as well, like a mirror of ZH on servers internal to the PRC.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Ting Chen wrote:
The situation escalated today morning. Someone, probably some chinese Wikipedian hacked the site of Wiki China and deformated the homepage. Probably they even deleted some content. At first they placed an announcement we were just formulating in the chinese Wikipedia. You can see the announcment and the deformed homepage of Wiki China here:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:%E7%BB%B4%E5%AE%A2%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD
This action is a deed of one or several people. It does not represent the oppinion of the chinese wikipedia community. But because one of our announcement draft was placed on the deformed page. We have formulated a statement on our own home page to say that this action is not an action of the chinese community and that we condumn any hacker attack on who so ever.
They left the main page editable didn't they?
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
Good news at first. As one of our sysops from Beijing, who also sent the pitition for lifting the block this time and in the last times, reported, the block is lifted. All WikiMedia-projects should be reachable from China in the coming days.
They left the main page editable didn't they?
No, one can only edit if one is registered. In some internet forums someone said they simply didn't impliment any security measure. :-O
Ting
Ting Chen wrote:
Good news at first. As one of our sysops from Beijing, who also sent the pitition for lifting the block this time and in the last times, reported, the block is lifted. All WikiMedia-projects should be reachable from China in the coming days.
They left the main page editable didn't they?
No, one can only edit if one is registered. In some internet forums someone said they simply didn't impliment any security measure. :-O
Ting
Hello Ting
Are you sure the block has really been lifted, or might it be simply the change by Tim Starling to use Korea servers for now ?
Anthere
Are you sure the block has really been lifted, or might it be simply the change by Tim Starling to use Korea servers for now ?
Yes, you are right. I read the report of lifting today morning and later I read the change on Korea servers. So, the reason is the change. No lifting.
Ting.
Angela wrote:
On 10/30/05, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
I am terribly sorry Angela but do you really feel they could do this in error?????????????????
I'm unable to see the site, so I'm assuming good faith. I was previously getting timeouts, then 404 errors, and now all I see is the standard "This wiki does not exist yet" error message, with the logo from meta - the exact same page you get if you go to http://tokipona.wikinews.org/ for example.
Angela.
Yep I get that to ..... maybe they did something to stop foreign IP's from entering the site? And redirect them to wikipedia instead?
Walter
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Angela wrote:
On 10/30/05, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
I am terribly sorry Angela but do you really feel they could do this in error?????????????????
I'm unable to see the site, so I'm assuming good faith. I was previously getting timeouts, then 404 errors, and now all I see is the standard "This wiki does not exist yet" error message, with the logo from meta - the exact same page you get if you go to http://tokipona.wikinews.org/ for example.
Yes, it plainly tells people to go to the REAL Wikimedia sites. Awesome :)
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
Dallas, Texas
Probably English speakers.
Fred
On Oct 29, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Ting Chen wrote:
Hello,
as you know at the moment Wikipedia is stil blocked from the china mainland gouvement. But this is probably not their only measure against the WikiMedia-projects.
Please take a look at the following site: http://www.wikicn.com/wiki/%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies. They call themselve the first chinese wiki encyclopedia and had (machine) copied over tens of thousands of articles from the chinese Wikipedia site, without mentioning their source, and without any hint of GFDL. Most articles has stil the interwiki-links in them, natuarally without any other language provided from this site. Further more they have cencored most of the sensitive articles, which could probably be the reason of the blocking.
Is there any possibility from the board to take any action? A mention of the source and GFDL is in my oppinion the fundamental action, which they should take.
Greetings Ting ([[:en:User:Philopp]] [[:de:User:Wing]] [[:zh:User:Wing]]
-- Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX supergünstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat, DSL-Flatrate für nur 4,99 Euro/Monat* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Info from Mathias Schindler of Juriwiki:
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies.
Not according to my data:
DOMAIN: WIKICN.COM
RSP: iDotz.Net - Domain Name Registration Service URL: http://www.idotz.net
created-date: 2003-12-25 updated-date: 2004-11-25 registration-expiration-date: 2007-12-25
owner-contact: P-LSL24 owner-organization: National Solution owner-fname: Liang owner-lname: Lu owner-street: 6041 Village Bend Dr #1005 owner-city: Dallas owner-state: TX owner-zip: 75206 owner-country: US owner-phone: 214-514-6688 owner-fax: 214-768-2491 owner-email: lul@mail.physics.smu.edu
admin-contact: P-LOL24 admin-organization: We Snap City admin-fname: Liang admin-lname: Lu admin-street: 6041 Village Bend Dr #1005 admin-city: Dallas admin-state: TX admin-zip: 75206 admin-country: US admin-phone: 214-514-6688 admin-email: lul@mail.physics.smu.edu
tech-contact: P-LOL24 tech-organization: We Snap City tech-fname: Liang tech-lname: Lu tech-street: 6041 Village Bend Dr #1005 tech-city: Dallas tech-state: TX tech-zip: 75206 tech-country: US tech-phone: 214-514-6688 tech-email: lul@mail.physics.smu.edu
On Oct 29, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Ting Chen wrote:
Hello,
as you know at the moment Wikipedia is stil blocked from the china mainland gouvement. But this is probably not their only measure against the WikiMedia-projects.
Please take a look at the following site: http://www.wikicn.com/wiki/%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies. They call themselve the first chinese wiki encyclopedia and had (machine) copied over tens of thousands of articles from the chinese Wikipedia site, without mentioning their source, and without any hint of GFDL. Most articles has stil the interwiki-links in them, natuarally without any other language provided from this site. Further more they have cencored most of the sensitive articles, which could probably be the reason of the blocking.
Is there any possibility from the board to take any action? A mention of the source and GFDL is in my oppinion the fundamental action, which they should take.
Greetings Ting ([[:en:User:Philopp]] [[:de:User:Wing]] [[:zh:User:Wing]]
-- Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX supergünstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat, DSL-Flatrate für nur 4,99 Euro/Monat* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies.
Not according to my data:
This is what stands in their own site as of: http://www.wikicn.com/wiki/%E7%BB%B4%E5%AE%A2%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD;
The original site was named sopai.org. It was started at April 12, 2005. The three companies running it is named dopai.com, bokee.com and internet labratories (互联网实验室, chinalabs.com). At October 20, 2005 it changed its name to Wiki China.
Ting.
On 10/30/05, Ting Chen Wing.Philopp@gmx.de wrote:
This is what stands in their own site as of: http://www.wikicn.com/wiki/%E7%BB%B4%E5%AE%A2%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD;
The original site was named sopai.org. It was started at April 12, 2005. The three companies running it is named dopai.com, bokee.com and internet labratories (互联网实验室, chinalabs.com). At October 20, 2005 it changed its name to Wiki China.
FYI, bokee.com is a one of the more famous "blog" companies in China, but it also has a reputation for commercializing blogs that has peeved lots of grassroots bloggers. We should keep that in mind.
I also agree with Wing (who presented at Wikimania about the Chinese Wikipedia) that the timing of the Wikipedia block and this site going up seem like an interesting coincidence.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
Fred Bauder wrote:
Info from Mathias Schindler of Juriwiki:
This site is named as Wiki China and is hosted from some chinese companies.
Not according to my data:
DOMAIN: WIKICN.COM
RSP: iDotz.Net - Domain Name Registration Service URL: http://www.idotz.net
created-date: 2003-12-25 updated-date: 2004-11-25 registration-expiration-date: 2007-12-25
owner-contact: P-LSL24 owner-organization: National Solution owner-fname: Liang owner-lname: Lu owner-street: 6041 Village Bend Dr #1005 owner-city: Dallas owner-state: TX owner-zip: 75206 owner-country: US owner-phone: 214-514-6688 owner-fax: 214-768-2491 owner-email: lul@mail.physics.smu.edu
That's domain name registration ... however, the IP address of the host (211.151.95.181), according to APNIC, belongs to Chinese ISP 21ViaNet. And traffic gets routed there through China Telecom.
*_inetnum_*: 211.151.0.0 - 211.151.255.255 netname: CHINA-21VIANET country: CN descr: 21VIANET(CHINA),INC admin-c: WH381-AP http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=WH381-AP&form_type=advanced tech-c: WH381-AP http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=WH381-AP&form_type=advanced status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE changed: luoyan@cnnic.net.cn 20040213 changed: ipas@cnnic.net.cn 20050426 mnt-by: MAINT-CNNIC-AP http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=MAINT-CNNIC-AP&form_type=advanced source: APNIC
*_route_*: 211.151.0.0/17 descr: CHINA-21VIANET descr: 21VIANET(CHINA),INC country: CN _origin_: AS9802 http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=AS9802&form_type=advanced mnt-by: MAINT-CNNIC-AP http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=MAINT-CNNIC-AP&form_type=advanced changed: ipas@cnnic.net.cn 20040213 source: APNIC
*_route_*: 211.151.0.0/17 descr: CHINA-21VIANET descr: 21VIANET(CHINA),INC country: CN _origin_: AS9308 http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=AS9308&form_type=advanced mnt-by: MAINT-CNNIC-AP http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=MAINT-CNNIC-AP&form_type=advanced changed: ipas@cnnic.net.cn 20040213 source: APNIC
*person*: Wei He _nic-hdl_: WH381-AP e-mail: ipmaster@21vianet.com address: BOE Science Park, 10 Jiuxianqiao Road, Chaoyang District,Beijing 100016, China phone: +86-10-84562121 fax-no: +86-10-84564234 country: CN changed: wang.zhining@21vianet.com 20050426 mnt-by: MAINT-CN-21VIANET http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl?searchtext=MAINT-CN-21VIANET&form_type=advanced source: APNIC
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