--- Stirling Newberry stirling.newberry@xigenics.net wrote:
On Mar 9, 2005, at 7:52 PM, Mark Williamson wrote:
What about people who speak Hopi as their first language and would like to read about Milwaukee?
What about the vast majority of our readers who have needs that are being ignored while certain individuals ride their private hobby horses?
Er, that is what I do already by writing about the things I find to be interesting. That is the hobby horse I ride. Why is this wrong?
-- mav
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
On Mar 10, 2005, at 12:04 PM, Daniel Mayer wrote:
What about the vast majority of our readers who have needs that are being ignored while certain individuals ride their private hobby horses?
Er, that is what I do already by writing about the things I find to be interesting. That is the hobby horse I ride. Why is this wrong?
-- mav
The illusion of the growth phase of branded anarchy is that the people will just roll in and nothing needs to be done, if everyone just does what they like all will be well. This is an illusion, the very phase that wikipedia is going through right now requires an attention to the next phase - where retention, and not recruitment, will drive success of the project.
There have been hundreds of messages about small language wikipedias, and a handful about the social structure and credibility of wikipedai. Starting a wikipedia in (fill in the blank language) is far less important than dealing with credibility issues, and with the interaction problems in wikipedia, and with ideas to promote wikipedia to the larger world.
Stirling Newberry wrote:
There have been hundreds of messages about small language wikipedias, and a handful about the social structure and credibility of wikipedai. Starting a wikipedia in (fill in the blank language) is far less important than dealing with credibility issues, and with the interaction problems in wikipedia, and with ideas to promote wikipedia to the larger world.
Perhaps when we can deal with our *current* status as a Top 200 website, with peaks yesterday at No. 71. For a site popular purely through word of mouth, I think we're having problems coping with the amount of credibility we already have.
- d.
On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:10 PM, David Gerard wrote:
Stirling Newberry wrote:
There have been hundreds of messages about small language wikipedias, and a handful about the social structure and credibility of wikipedai. Starting a wikipedia in (fill in the blank language) is far less important than dealing with credibility issues, and with the interaction problems in wikipedia, and with ideas to promote wikipedia to the larger world.
Perhaps when we can deal with our *current* status as a Top 200 website, with peaks yesterday at No. 71. For a site popular purely through word of mouth, I think we're having problems coping with the amount of credibility we already have.
- d.
More than you are aware of, in that so far wikipedia has only had to deal with "natural" challenges of software, social organization and server load factor. Wait until you start having to deal with the problems of organized attempts to extract value from wikipedia, it will generate server loads and social problems which are, if the experience of e-tailers like EBay and Amazon are any indication two to four orders of magnitude above current peak loads. And I am not kidding.
More over, the current size is based on link equity, not merely "word of mouth". That link equity is something that people pay money for, and therefore exploiting wikipedia's link equity is already happening, and doing so on a systematic basis is a matter of time.
As well, the problems of retention and wider recruitment need to be dealt with now, otherwise by the time people realize there is a problem it will be too late.
Again, Stirling, I am going to tell you: quit whinging about the lopsidedness of the discussion and f'ing fix it yourself. If you think we need to talk about something, post a message about it. Nobody's holding you back. We talk about things that are at least a little bit relevant to Wikipedia as a whole on this ml, and we have been doing exactly that. We are not restricted to talking about "major" issues.
But if you feel we should talk more about these issues, YOU are welcome to start discussions on these issues. Go ahead. Nobody's stopping you.
Now, please quit whinging about this and either post the messages you think we need, or go and pout.
Mark
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:20:09 -0500, Stirling Newberry stirling.newberry@xigenics.net wrote:
On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:10 PM, David Gerard wrote:
Stirling Newberry wrote:
There have been hundreds of messages about small language wikipedias, and a handful about the social structure and credibility of wikipedai. Starting a wikipedia in (fill in the blank language) is far less important than dealing with credibility issues, and with the interaction problems in wikipedia, and with ideas to promote wikipedia to the larger world.
Perhaps when we can deal with our *current* status as a Top 200 website, with peaks yesterday at No. 71. For a site popular purely through word of mouth, I think we're having problems coping with the amount of credibility we already have.
- d.
More than you are aware of, in that so far wikipedia has only had to deal with "natural" challenges of software, social organization and server load factor. Wait until you start having to deal with the problems of organized attempts to extract value from wikipedia, it will generate server loads and social problems which are, if the experience of e-tailers like EBay and Amazon are any indication two to four orders of magnitude above current peak loads. And I am not kidding.
More over, the current size is based on link equity, not merely "word of mouth". That link equity is something that people pay money for, and therefore exploiting wikipedia's link equity is already happening, and doing so on a systematic basis is a matter of time.
As well, the problems of retention and wider recruitment need to be dealt with now, otherwise by the time people realize there is a problem it will be too late.
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Mar 10, 2005 5:20 PM, Stirling Newberry stirling.newberry@xigenics.net wrote:
More than you are aware of, in that so far wikipedia has only had to deal with "natural" challenges of software, social organization and server load factor. Wait until you start having to deal with the problems of organized attempts to extract value from wikipedia, it will generate server loads and social problems which are, if the experience of e-tailers like EBay and Amazon are any indication two to four orders of magnitude above current peak loads. And I am not kidding.
Wikipedia is different from Amazon and ebay in that it is possible to download its entire content in a single compressed bundle (or a small set of these, one for each wiki). Presumably some way can be found to section off the bandwidth consumed by downloading these bundles from the bandwidth used for reading and editing the online version (i.e. have a host of mirrors only for these downloads).
Data miners and others trying to extract value from reading Wikipedia have a strong incentive to download a bundle and run their datamining scripts locally, rather than accessing the current Wikipedia page-by-page over the Net. It's faster, easier to code, and less likely to give offense.
So, what we need to worry about is mostly people doing wide-scale editing with bots for nefarious purposes (e.g. improving PageRank rankings).
Steve
Stephen Forrest wrote:
Wikipedia is different from Amazon and ebay in that it is possible to download its entire content in a single compressed bundle (or a small set of these, one for each wiki). Presumably some way can be found to section off the bandwidth consumed by downloading these bundles from the bandwidth used for reading and editing the online version (i.e. have a host of mirrors only for these downloads).
I've been wondering if perhaps setting up a bit torrent tracker for Wikipedia database downloads might be a good idea. I don't know how many people download those things; if it's only a couple of downloads a week it might not be worthwhile, but if there are lots of downloads a day then it could save the project a lot of bandwidth.
Hello,
I have tried several ways to draw attention to the problems of the new Wikipedia in Ossetic, but no changes about it occured. I feel ashamed to shout too much about those problems, for I know Wikimedia has lots of other things to do.
Still today I've noticec someone has added a news about the os.wikipedia reaching 200 articles to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News And there are at least TWO problems about that: - the original link (just [[:os:]]) didn't work, as none of interwikies to [[os:]] do. - I don't know where the person took the data, for the variable NUMBEROFARTICLES doesn't work at os.wikipedia.org (as it can be seen at the bottom of the front page: it shows "-1" exactly).
They say, our problems are on the bugzilla, and I have sent letters about them to this list and personally. What else could be done to fix those problems? It's mid-April already, a month and a half long problems apt to linger, I am afraid... :(
Sl. Ivanov
Yes. Why hasn't anybody done anything about this? Come on! It's a disgrace that we have a Wikipedia with over 200 articles now (!) that has so many technical problems which devs and everybody else have seemingly turned a blind eye to. Remember, Ossetic is a natural language with millions of speakers who use it on an everyday basis. There are over 10 os.wikipedians now if I recall correctly.
Mark
On Apr 10, 2005 1:00 PM, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I have tried several ways to draw attention to the problems of the new Wikipedia in Ossetic, but no changes about it occured. I feel ashamed to shout too much about those problems, for I know Wikimedia has lots of other things to do.
Still today I've noticec someone has added a news about the os.wikipedia reaching 200 articles to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News And there are at least TWO problems about that:
- the original link (just [[:os:]]) didn't work, as none of
interwikies to [[os:]] do.
- I don't know where the person took the data, for the variable
NUMBEROFARTICLES doesn't work at os.wikipedia.org (as it can be seen at the bottom of the front page: it shows "-1" exactly).
They say, our problems are on the bugzilla, and I have sent letters about them to this list and personally. What else could be done to fix those problems? It's mid-April already, a month and a half long problems apt to linger, I am afraid... :(
Sl. Ivanov _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Mark Williamson wrote:
Yes. Why hasn't anybody done anything about this? Come on!
The interwiki link updater system seems to be broken, so it's waiting until somebody has the chance to go over it.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
The interwiki link updater system seems to be broken, so it's waiting until somebody has the chance to go over it.
Is it posible to look at it? Where?
On 4/12/05, Alexander Sigachov sas@ponyexpress.ru wrote:
The interwiki link updater system seems to be broken, so it's waiting until somebody has the chance to go over it.
Is it posible to look at it? Where?
I wish you all possible success! As I understand the problem is not only about the Ossetic W. It concerns several newer wikipedias too (e. g. interwiki-links from Ossetic W to codes minnan, ast, ang, lb don't work now).
Sl.
How the things are going about the interwiki link updater?
On 4/11/05, Brion Vibber wrote:
The interwiki link updater system seems to be broken, so it's waiting until somebody has the chance to go over it.
Alexander Sigachov sas@ponyexpress.ru wrote:
Is it posible to look at it? Where?
So?..
Sl.
Hello there,
The other example of the misfunctioning interwiki links can be found at http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B... ― all the interwikies _from_ the Ossetic WP to older WPs do work, while the interwiki to cv: (created in December 2004 or so) is the red part of the article.
How can we change all that? Feeling ourselves a somewhat outer project with no links to the "main WP" is really weird. E. g. now we have a really cute article http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%86%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%... translated into Russian, German and Esperanto. We would like to propose it for the "Translation of the Week" as soon as we have the well-structured English version. But how can we do that, if no interwiki links to the Ossetic articles can exist?!..
Respectfully, Slavik Ivanov
A way out may be manual addition of the actual language codes list into the Ossetic WP. It will solve the interwiki problems on our side.
It'd be also great if somebody add the code for "os" to, at least, the most culturally important for Ossetians WPs such as ru, ka, tr, fa, cv, tt and probably en, de, eo.
Rgrds, Sl.
On 4/23/05, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com wrote:
Hello there,
The other example of the misfunctioning interwiki links can be found at http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B... �D all the interwikies _from_ the Ossetic WP to older WPs do work, while the interwiki to cv: (created in December 2004 or so) is the red part of the article.
How can we change all that? Feeling ourselves a somewhat outer project with no links to the "main WP" is really weird. E. g. now we have a really cute article http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%E... translated into Russian, German and Esperanto. We would like to propose it for the "Translation of the Week" as soon as we have the well-structured English version. But how can we do that, if no interwiki links to the Ossetic articles can exist?!..
Respectfully, Slavik Ivanov
-- Esperu cxiam! http://os.wikipedia.org/ http://e-novosti.info/forumo/
That would actually work.
Though I don't see why a developer can't just take care of it. It's been a really long time now, and os.wikipedia has plenty of users and articles, yet _interwiki links to and from it don't work_.
Mark
On 25/04/05, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com wrote:
A way out may be manual addition of the actual language codes list into the Ossetic WP. It will solve the interwiki problems on our side.
It'd be also great if somebody add the code for "os" to, at least, the most culturally important for Ossetians WPs such as ru, ka, tr, fa, cv, tt and probably en, de, eo.
Rgrds, Sl.
On 4/23/05, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com wrote:
Hello there,
The other example of the misfunctioning interwiki links can be found at http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B... �D all the interwikies _from_ the Ossetic WP to older WPs do work, while the interwiki to cv: (created in December 2004 or so) is the red part of the article.
How can we change all that? Feeling ourselves a somewhat outer project with no links to the "main WP" is really weird. E. g. now we have a really cute article http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%E... translated into Russian, German and Esperanto. We would like to propose it for the "Translation of the Week" as soon as we have the well-structured English version. But how can we do that, if no interwiki links to the Ossetic articles can exist?!..
Respectfully, Slavik Ivanov
-- Esperu cxiam! http://os.wikipedia.org/ http://e-novosti.info/forumo/
-- Esperu cxiam!
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Thank you, the unknown hero, who have repaired the interwiki system so that the links to os.wikipedia are working now. See, e. g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alania
It's a very good gift for all of us at [[:os:]], since an article from our WP is a very probable candidate for the next week "Translation of the Week": http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_of_the_week/Translation_candidate...
Thank you again, Sl. Ivanov
PS: {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} and similar things still don't work at [[:os:]]. See http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
The other example of the misfunctioning interwiki links can be found at http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B... �D all the interwikies _from_ the Ossetic WP to older WPs do work, while the interwiki to cv: (created in December 2004 or so) is the red part of the article.
How can we change all that? Feeling ourselves a somewhat outer project with no links to the "main WP" is really weird. E. g. now we have a really cute article http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%EF%BF%BD%E... translated into Russian, German and Esperanto. We would like to propose it for the "Translation of the Week" as soon as we have the well-structured English version. But how can we do that, if no interwiki links to the Ossetic articles can exist?!..
Respectfully, Slavik Ivanov
There are still some bugs that rest to be fixed in the Ossetic WP:
2005/5/5, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com:
PS: {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} and similar things still don't work at [[:os:]]. See http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
Neither work the interwikies to [[av]], [[cv]], [[nn]] and some other newer WPs.
Sl.
Same with fur.wikipedia - links to certain other Wikipedias don't work.
Mark
On 31/05/05, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com wrote:
There are still some bugs that rest to be fixed in the Ossetic WP:
2005/5/5, V. Ivanov amikeco@gmail.com:
PS: {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} and similar things still don't work at [[:os:]]. See http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
Neither work the interwikies to [[av]], [[cv]], [[nn]] and some other newer WPs.
Sl.
-- Esperu cxiam! _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
You and all of #wikipedia... ;p
I never have once mentioned it in there that somebody didn't say something about furries...
Similar to the Uyghur Wikipedia (ug.wikipedia) and caveman...
Mark
On 31/05/05, Bryan Derksen bryan.derksen@shaw.ca wrote:
Mark Williamson wrote:
Same with fur.wikipedia - links to certain other Wikipedias don't work.
Ack. For one brief, glorious and horrifying moment I thought perhaps we had a Wikipedia specifically for furries. :) _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Apr 11, 2005 3:16 AM, Mark Williamson wrote:
has so many technical problems which devs and everybody else have seemingly turned a blind eye to. Remember, Ossetic is a natural language with millions of speakers who use it on an everyday basis.
Probably less than a million in fact. But it's really one of the largest languages of Caucasus. Some speakers live in Turkey (emigrants of 19th century) and in the western countries (nowadays emigrants).
There are over 10 os.wikipedians now if I recall correctly.
28, but not all of them active. Well, about 10 wikipedians at least tried to use the wiki: http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Listusers
Sl.
While the interwiki links are broken because of some major problem, the NUMBEROFARTICLES problem seems to be local. Can somebody tell me, what's it about?
See our strange statistics page: http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
2005/4/11, V. Ivanov:
- I don't know where the person took the data, for the variable
NUMBEROFARTICLES doesn't work at os.wikipedia.org (as it can be seen at the bottom of the front page: it shows "-1" exactly).
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org