Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Please remind him to talk in a civil manner to ALL contributors of every WikiMedia project. If he has an issue, he should discuss it here on the mailing list.
mboverload
On 7/2/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
I never sent you such an e-mail.
Mark
On 02/07/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Also, let me remind you that this is 100% irrelevant. If you want, I can include all of the e-mails I have ever received from you, ronline, Bogdan Giusca, and everyone else involved here. Not all of them are exactly what I would call "respectable".
Mark
On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I never sent you such an e-mail.
Mark
On 02/07/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
And what you forgot to mention, Jacky, is that you yourself harassed me at my own livejournal.
"What you forgot to mention is that you don't know those languages and you use free on-line translators. The result is obviously of the finest shit quality (and you just can't stop editing!). You start flame wars on subjects you know nothing about. You definitively proved you're an idiot (just google for: Mark Williamson, node_ue, Arizona, United States, 1989-08-18, node.ue@gmail.com, AOL IchiUpsideDown, ICQ 97325293, YM node_ue, aaaboyz1@hotmail.com to see the results). Isn't this just what you looked for? You may stop now and let the world move on. Any more action from you is useless. People don't make statues to morons."
"You missed the point, butthead: 1. Stop editing in languages you don't know! Stop arguing on matters way beyond you comprehension abilities! You may use your plenty of free time READING instead writing stupidities (try google again) - it would be a good thing for both you and humankind. 2. This is not about your stupid font. 3. I have more important things to do than exposing myself to persons like you. A good example would be farting (at least it's pleasurable)."
Mark
On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Also, let me remind you that this is 100% irrelevant. If you want, I can include all of the e-mails I have ever received from you, ronline, Bogdan Giusca, and everyone else involved here. Not all of them are exactly what I would call "respectable".
Mark
On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I never sent you such an e-mail.
Mark
On 02/07/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
Hoi, You have to appreciate that people are increasingly not interested and that as this whole sorry affair continues to annoy, the people involved are also increasingly thought to be nuisance. This is really sad, for I know for Mark for instane that he has quite some background in linguistics. The other people I do not even start to learn because the nuisance factor is steadily going up.
There is hardly anyone interested anymore in the continued squables; there is no platform in the WMF that takes the Moldovan/Romanian issue as a subject that they would want to consider, particularly beause the current people involved do not give the impression that they would abide by a verdict given by such a platform.
So please stop and consider if you want to come to a resolution even if this is not the resolution that you would prefer.
Thanks, GerardM
On 7/2/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Also, let me remind you that this is 100% irrelevant. If you want, I can include all of the e-mails I have ever received from you, ronline, Bogdan Giusca, and everyone else involved here. Not all of them are exactly what I would call "respectable".
Mark
On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I never sent you such an e-mail.
Mark
On 02/07/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
You have to appreciate that people are increasingly not interested and that as this whole sorry affair continues to annoy, the people involved are also increasingly thought to be nuisance.
I have to remind you that me and the community behind me is just as annoyed as you are of having to spend time on this junk issue.
But it appears that we are not let to live. We need you people here because you can make decisions.
Also, we do not require huge amounts of time. We provided during this discussion simple proof of the maliciousness in front of us. It's not like the Trial of Nurnberg, but more like needing the sheriff do to his job. It's not rocket science, just facts that can be checked on wikipedia.
Did any of you look at the proof we provided? Any one. We believe this would be enough to close the case.
**If one of you says he did that and that he believes it's not ok, then I quit.**
:en:Dpotop
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Fred Bauder wrote:
On Jul 2, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Jacky PB wrote:
he did that and that he believes it's not ok
He did that and it is not Ok.
Did he quit yet? He did promise...
After weeks and weeks of debate on this topic, and complaints to parties to "do something", I have decided to "do something".
... Drastic.
1. I declare that I am the new wikipedia overlord, super-administrator, and god-king. If, oh, the "community" or that "jimbo" guy wishes to appeal anything to me, it must be accompanied by a sufficient grovel. Oh, and animal/vegetable/mineral sacrifice of some kind might help, along with 20 questions about why they should be listened to.
2. I declare that since wikipedia is primarily a textual medium, and not a spoken medium, I hereby declare that what defines a wikipedia "language" will be documentation of textual expression, of a spkoken language, in a specific character set, by 1000 people or more, at any given point in time. Thus, the myriad of chinese languages, which use multiple character sets, will be available with those characters. Likewise, since romanian languages have been historically documented as using cyrillic character sets by more than 1000 people, they will also be available.
3. I declare that in conjunction with the above, patent nonsense and straw-men, like using a klingon character set for writing articles in ancient hebrew, is straight out, as there is no verifiability that 1000 ancient hebrews wrote in klingon character sets.
4. I also declare that wikipedia has no stake in debates as trivial and annoying as "you put jelly in my peanut butter!" or "you put peanut butter in my jelly!" or "you put cyrillic in my romanian!". Wikipedia is not the appropriate place to express whether or not a certain condiment *should* have been used, or that a certain character set *should* have been used. If a character set has been widely used, we should make such a language and character set combination available.
5. If people are offended that their language, and how it has been written, over time, are offended, that they build time machines to fix the problem. Wikipedia does not censor the past, wikipedia documents the past. If folks are offended that their language was written in another character set, I suggest that those who are offended travel to the past to ensure that such a thing never happened.
6. I hope that you, my faithful subjects, will abide by my decrees, or I will put jelly in your peanut butter.
Signed by your new overlord, super-administrator, and god-king: -Ronabop, New God-king of wikipedia
Ronald,
I laughed so much because of point 1) that I would probably have voted for you even if at point 2) you had sent me to Outer Space on a bycicle, telling me that I should find a Klingon version of the Essenian texts or never ever return to earth LOLOLOLOL Keep it going, My *Lord* :))
Bèrto
Hello,
I would like to apologize to all of you for my interventions here. I just missed an e-mail of anthere more than 6 months old.
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-March/043897.html
My only excuse is that it happened on another thread than the one I followed.
Yours, :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Is this relevant to the *current* discussion?
Everybody already knew about that. It was clear that that decision was made.
However, it was never enforced, and since then, you have taken against yourselves by turning the heat up where it was absolutely not necessary and making everyone stop caring.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello,
I would like to apologize to all of you for my interventions here. I just missed an e-mail of anthere more than 6 months old.
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-March/043897.html
My only excuse is that it happened on another thread than the one I followed.
Yours, :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
But it was the Ancient Soviets who *forced* the Ancient Hebrews to replace the Ancient Klingon Alphabet with the Ancient Hebrew Alphabet!
Mark
On 03/07/06, Ronald Chmara ron@opus1.com wrote:
After weeks and weeks of debate on this topic, and complaints to parties to "do something", I have decided to "do something".
... Drastic.
- I declare that I am the new wikipedia overlord, super-administrator,
and god-king. If, oh, the "community" or that "jimbo" guy wishes to appeal anything to me, it must be accompanied by a sufficient grovel. Oh, and animal/vegetable/mineral sacrifice of some kind might help, along with 20 questions about why they should be listened to.
- I declare that since wikipedia is primarily a textual medium, and
not a spoken medium, I hereby declare that what defines a wikipedia "language" will be documentation of textual expression, of a spkoken language, in a specific character set, by 1000 people or more, at any given point in time. Thus, the myriad of chinese languages, which use multiple character sets, will be available with those characters. Likewise, since romanian languages have been historically documented as using cyrillic character sets by more than 1000 people, they will also be available.
- I declare that in conjunction with the above, patent nonsense and
straw-men, like using a klingon character set for writing articles in ancient hebrew, is straight out, as there is no verifiability that 1000 ancient hebrews wrote in klingon character sets.
- I also declare that wikipedia has no stake in debates as trivial and
annoying as "you put jelly in my peanut butter!" or "you put peanut butter in my jelly!" or "you put cyrillic in my romanian!". Wikipedia is not the appropriate place to express whether or not a certain condiment *should* have been used, or that a certain character set *should* have been used. If a character set has been widely used, we should make such a language and character set combination available.
- If people are offended that their language, and how it has been
written, over time, are offended, that they build time machines to fix the problem. Wikipedia does not censor the past, wikipedia documents the past. If folks are offended that their language was written in another character set, I suggest that those who are offended travel to the past to ensure that such a thing never happened.
- I hope that you, my faithful subjects, will abide by my decrees, or
I will put jelly in your peanut butter.
Signed by your new overlord, super-administrator, and god-king: -Ronabop, New God-king of wikipedia
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
I don't know Mark personally, but this sounds strange to me ... really strange ... are you sure it was him??? The text does not read like one of his ...
Well anyway: he does not try to get the Romanian wikipedia closed down, right? I suppose there are as much problems there as on any other wikipedia ... so what's the point?
Considering all that stuff I read on "proposals for closing down wikipedias" - people have some quite serious problems when it comes to NPOV ... hmmm ...
And if articles are copied from the Romanian wikipedia only using another script and people say articles on the Moldavian wikipedia are plain wrong also in contents ... doesn't this mean they are wrong as well on the Romanian wikipedia?
Come on: stop it ... if the quality really is not good: instead of struggling and figthing care about the wikipedia where you work on and not about those where others work on (and where you do not seem to be interested in). This is valid for all who seem to have too much time for POV but strange enough too little for really contributing.
Sorry, but I believe we read enough about this matter.
Again: live and let live ... stop fighting - it's time to show that wikipedians are tolerant people. (This sentence is for "all" who are involved in some kind of dispute.)
I am not going to write any more messages about this theme.
Ciao, Sabine
Jacky PB schrieb:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would not let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
I'm willing to give any person with wikipedia credentials (admin/sysop/etc) access to my yahoo mail account, for this matter to be investigated.
It's an account I set for wikipedia business. Also, it's a Yahoo accont, meaning that it's subject to rules I cannot control.
Yours,
:en:Dpotop
--- Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
I don't know Mark personally, but this sounds strange to me ... really strange ... are you sure it was him??? The text does not read like one of his ...
Well anyway: he does not try to get the Romanian wikipedia closed down, right? I suppose there are as much problems there as on any other wikipedia ... so what's the point?
Considering all that stuff I read on "proposals for closing down wikipedias" - people have some quite serious problems when it comes to NPOV ... hmmm ...
And if articles are copied from the Romanian wikipedia only using another script and people say articles on the Moldavian wikipedia are plain wrong also in contents ... doesn't this mean they are wrong as well on the Romanian wikipedia?
Come on: stop it ... if the quality really is not good: instead of struggling and figthing care about the wikipedia where you work on and not about those where others work on (and where you do not seem to be interested in). This is valid for all who seem to have too much time for POV but strange enough too little for really contributing.
Sorry, but I believe we read enough about this matter.
Again: live and let live ... stop fighting - it's time to show that wikipedians are tolerant people. (This sentence is for "all" who are involved in some kind of dispute.)
I am not going to write any more messages about this theme.
Ciao, Sabine
Jacky PB schrieb:
Hello everybody,
On the previous Moldovan business thread, I
received
your message on "live and let live" and "we don't
care
about you".
But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent
and
only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him
a
private message, nor insulted his folks).
You certainly agree with me that this guy would
not
let me "live and let live".
This is the person you implicitly support by
ignoring
our petition: A person that considers Romanians to
be
"shoddy", and takes political oppinions as
personal
offences.
--- Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700 From: "Mark Williamson" node.ue@gmail.com To: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Subject: Nonwithstanding
Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit insulted by your support of union of Moldova and Romania.
You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear
that
you do not believe Moldovans are capable of making our own informed decisions? Considering, of course, that my grandparents and their countrymen voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with
your
shoddy country in 1994?
Mark
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Jul 2, 2006, at 5:36 AM, Jacky PB wrote:
I'm willing to give any person with wikipedia credentials (admin/sysop/etc) access to my yahoo mail account, for this matter to be investigated.
It's an account I set for wikipedia business. Also, it's a Yahoo accont, meaning that it's subject to rules I cannot control.
Yours,
:en:Dpotop
Tempting, but I would much rather you just dropped it. I believe you anyway. I just don't think continuing the dispute gets anyone anywhere. (Of course, if it was my dispute I would scoff at such advice and proceed to rant).
Fred
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org