Sounds like an utter mess. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain it
to me, even if I'm still not sure why it's such a big issue =O
On 6/27/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Probably not. Dpotop's original message assumed that everyone was
already familiar with the situation.
I will give a brief summary, trying to be unbiased -- i.e., I will
include the points of view of some of my opponents.
Some background --
According to some people, Moldovan is a synonym for Romanian.
According to some people, the Cyrillic alphabet was imposed on the
Moldovan ASSR by Stalin. According to others, the Cyrillic alphabet
was in continuous use in the MASSR thruought its history with an
exception of 15 years in the interwar period.
There are additional (and mostly irrelvant) arguments about whether or
not Moldovan was created as a separate language from Romanian by
Stalin, or whether it developed naturally.
That aside, the main issue here seems to be use of the Cyrillic script.
According to some people, nobody uses the Cyrillic script to write
this language anymore. According to other people, all people who use
the script are forced to against their will. According to yet others,
there are people who use the script by choice.
According to all parties involved, "Moldovan" using the Cyrillic
script is one of 3 official languages of Transnistria. What is
disputed, however, is the status of Transnistria. Please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria for details.
Some people have gone so far as to say a Wikipedia using Cyrillic
script is an insult "to all Romanians who died" at the hands of Stalin
for the Latin alphabet, although that is a bit of a stretch.
Another contentious issue is the quality of the Wikipedia. There have
been allegations of poor grammar, misspellings, etc., but the people
who claim they exist don't bother to point them out or fix them.
You may judge the quality of the articles yourself, see
http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Randompage
There are other issues, for example the villification of yours truly
by the other side as "an evil stalinistic KGB Jewish-American Russian
agent who does not know Romanian". Perhaps not in the same sentence,
but I have been called all of the above at some point or another in
some language.
Ironically, the "does not know Romanian" part is usually accused in
Romanian, and I understand it. (To be fair, Danutz would beg to differ
-- he claims to have "figured out" how I supposedly use a machine
translator to read and write)
Mark
On 27/06/06, mboverload <mboverload(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Am I the only one here that is completely an
utterly confused?
mboverload_confused
On 6/27/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Now, here's some proof of deception.
>
> Jacky/Dpotop claims here that the reasoning behind the proposal to
> close the Moldovan Wikipedia is that there are no native contributors
> (which is no longer true exactly).
>
> As this message from an ally of his, Dapiks/Constanteanu shows, this
> is not the case; rather it is politically motivated:
>
> "Buna,
>
> A inceput un vot pentru stergerea "Wikipediei Moldovenesti", o creatie
> a unui Evreu-American, cu origini suspecte in Basarabia si care nu
> vorbeste limba wikipediei la care pretinde a fi sysop. Il cheama Node
> ue si pentru a crea impresia ca lumea doreste aceasta wikipedie, a
> apelat la toti utilizatorii rusi care au venit sa voteze de partea lui
> desi nu cunosc bine subiectul si li s-a spus ca voteaza pentru
> supravietuirea alfabetului chirilic. Asa a ajuns ca votul sa fie 31
> pentru stergerea Mo wiki, si 42 impotriva stergerii - deci in alte
> cuvinte pentru pastrarea wikipediei in limba "moldoveneasca". Vino si
> voteaza aici[1] , ca sa sergem acesta creatura cu miros bolshevic,
> care insulta toti romanii de pe ambele maluri ale Prutului. Node ue
> le-a spus rusilor sa traduca mesajul lui in limba rusa si sa-l
> transmita mai departe. Trimite si tu mesajul acesta la toti
> utilizatorii romani-unionisti sau romani-moldoveni unionisti pe care-i
> cunosti pe en.wiki sau ro.wiki. Dapiks 23:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)"
>
> Hopefully some of you can guess what this means, but I will give you a
> summary of what he said.
>
> He says that a vote has begun for the deletion of the "Moldovan
> Wikipedia" (in quotes), notes that it is the "creation of a
> Jewish-American with possible origins in Bessarabia" (Bessarabia is a
> historical term here used in a derogatory context to refer to the
> modern-day Republic of Moldova). He goes on to say that the
> Jewish-American's name is "Node ue", and that this person has
"called
> all Russian users to vote on his side even though they do not know the
> subject well". He then notes the current number of votes in a
> belittling manner. He goes on to urge people to come and vote to
> delete "this ugly Bolshevik creation which insults all Romanians on
> both sides of the Pruth".
>
> The particularly political part is at the end when he says "Send this
> message also to all Romanian or Romano-Moldovan unionist users which
> you know on en.wiki or mo.wiki."
>
> An urge to spread a message to only people of a certain political
> background seems unacceptable. Yes, I did post at the village pump of
> the Russian Wikipedia and request a message to be translated into
> Russian (according to some Romanians, my message was anti-Romanian and
> deceptive, however when Dpotop posted a counter-argument, most
> Russians continued to maintain previous opinions). However, I
> encouraged EVERYONE to vote, which ultimately included one Russian
> user who voted for the closing of mo.wikipedia.
>
> Mark
>
> On 24/06/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > Remember, you decided to leave the Moldovan wikipedia freezed, but
not
> completely deleted. Now, its unique
contributor [[:en:User:Node_ue]],
is
> back (probably on school holiday), with his
anti-Romanian edits. I
cite from
> [[:mo:Wikipedia_talk:Administrator]]:
> >
> > <i> Please don't write in Romanian here, write Moldovan. Every time
you
> write Romanian on the Moldovan wikipedia,
god kills a kitten. </i>
> >
> > No to mention that he initiated a vote to become again sysop, then
tried
> to falsify the results (because they were
not favourable). The current
> version of the page [[:mo:Wikipedia:Administrator]] is that rigged by
> Node_ue, but take a look at the history on the vote page [
>
http://mo.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator&oldid…
],
> which shows the true result of the vote
according to the original
rules set
> by Node_ue.
> >
> > After this, he managed to invite the entire Russian wikipedia to
take
> position on a language they know nothing
about here: [[:meta:Proposals
for
> closing projects]]. Take a look at his post
here
> [[:ru:Википедия:Форум/Новости#Moldovan]], and notice the blatant lie
> concerning the cyrillic script (whereas the problem is in fact the
absence
> of Moldovan editors).
> >
> > In the meantime, Node_ue is copying articles from ro.wiki to mo.wikiand
> pretends they are in a different language.
> >
> > It must be noted that he is the only one on the entire wikipedia
(all
> wikipedias took together) to pretend
speaking a "Moldovan language"
> different from the Romanian one. Just take a look at
[[:en:Category:User
> mo]], [[:mo:Category:User mo]],
[[:ro:Category:User mo]],
> [[:ru:Category:User mo]].
> >
> > Moreover he himself places himself at level mo-2. I can assure you
this
> guy isn't able to write correct text in
Moldovan. Any native Moldovan
can
> tell you the same (in fact, this is why he
keeps copying articles
from
> ro.wiki).
> >
> > While no native Moldovan editor exists, the Moldovan wikipedia will
> continue to be a political statement that exacerbates nationalisms
from
> Romania, Russia, and Moldova itself, and a
playground for clever and
stupid
> trolls.
> >
> > It should be closed until a native Moldovan editor requires its
> re-opening and assumes admin rights.
> >
> > This argument has already been put forward here [[:meta:Proposals
for
closing
projects#What decision makers need to know]].
Yours sincerely,
[[:en:User:Dpotop]], [[:ro:User:Dpotop]]
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