Brion Vibber wrote: Larousse is also a trademark for a French commercial encyclopedia, http://www.larousse.fr/ and http://www.encyclopedie-larousse.fr/ Are the other servers named Britannica and Brockhaus? I would advise against the use of these names, to avoid legal problems. -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se/

Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) wrote: It is true that it is a US registered trademark see USPTO.gov No. 0836321, 1939180, but at larousse.wikipedia.org it is only being used for testing purposes, it probably does not dilute the french tradmark or otherwise create confusion. Also many educational web sites use the word larousse, even on wikipedia you can find reference to Larousse, so if someone finds their way to Wikipedia via larousse they will get a page about: [[larousse Gatronomique]]. As Larousse is a French publisher of French books, how can there be confusion? It is obviously not well known enough to have acquired a secondary meaning under US law, one could argue that their protection only extends to products and services where the French language must be a major component, as far as I can tell they have not taken any steps to publish dictionaries or encyclopedias in English. La rousse is also a french word meaning a color between orange and red. I thought it was a reference an ironic reference to the Department of Homeland Security. It can also mean a red headed woman, as in ''une belle fille rousse', la rousse'. Perhaps to keep Pliny company on those cold nights? Alex 756

Alex R. wrote: Look Alex, (1) I'm not trying to win an *argument*, and (2) I'm not having an argument with *you*. All I said was that I would recommend against using names that are trademarks. You are free to ignore my recommendations. I'm not speaking for Larousse and I'm not a lawyer. Actually, your response makes me regret I mentioned this at all. This is my last posting on this topic. -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se/

Je Mardo 20 Majo 2003 10:22, Anthere skribis: No small surprise, she is running on Red Head Linux. ;) -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Alex T. wrote: My copy of the "New Larousse Encyclopaedia of Animal Life" is an English-language encyclopaedia, although it is based on a French work. I'm not making any legal point at all, but I must admit that Wikipedia's use of the name did strike me as odd. A bit like Microsoft calling one of its servers "macintosh", and then saying, "Yeah, but we named after an esteemed computer scientist, not the rival brand of computers..." Oliver +-------------------------------------------+ | Oliver Pereira | | Dept. of Electronics and Computer Science | | University of Southampton | | omp199(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk | +-------------------------------------------+

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alex R. wrote: | | wasn't Larousse the man the founder of Larousse the company? This is | the whole point of a trademark, you can't call Spanish sparkling wine | champagne as champagne is a trademark identified with the production | of sparking wine in a particular French region. | | Alex756 On the other hand, sparkling wine from California ''is'' called champagne. Trademarks, especially in the international arena, are seldom absolute. - -- ~ Sean Barrett | Vortex goggles on? Here we go! --Calvin ~ sean(a)epoptic.com |

Sean Barrett sean(a)epoptic.com said: We are not talking about international trademark issues here, Larousse has registered their mark in the United States (see previous post) and is using it in the United States for English encyclopedia publications. Regarding the use of the word champagne in the United States (excuse me but I am Canadian) that is because the word champagne is not recognized as being a trademark in the United States, it is considered to have a regular meaning in the dictionary. This comparison is thus inappropriate because there is no word "larousse" in American English dictionaries. Words like macintosh (a type of apple), and champagne (in the US) are words that have regular meaning and cannot be trademarked, even IF they can be trademarked for a fanciful use it is limited to the product that they are marking until the TM becomes so well known as to take on a secondary meaning, or it becomes so widespread that it becomes the same as the product it marks such as in singer, which was once a word that meant sewing machine (but no more) or xerox copy, which many people still use when they mean photocopy. Campagne is a trademark (and even an origin of appellation mark) that is recognized in many countires. It is one of the reasons that these products need to be relabeled in these countries as "sparkling wines". Larousse does not appear to fit into the category of champagne, macintosh, xerox or any other exceptions. The only exception would be if it were not used, or that it was being used in a different class than it was registered. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it cannot use larousse, a trademark registered in the US to be used for enclyclopedias in the US. Using it as a mark to allow people to recognize Wikipedia under trademark law (with all the previous caveats added here by reference) appears to be infringement and may create confusion between Wikipedia and Larousse. Using it as a subdomain name, in my opinion does not protect it from confusion, it as if Pepsi had a web site called www.coca-cola.pepsi.com. I doubt that Coca-Cola would tolerate such an infringement. I agree with Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) regarding the fact pattern as presented -- use of a trademarked encyclopedia name would likely be considered infringement and I doubt that if the TM owner found out about it that they would tolerate it. At this point the infringement is probably de minimus and would only lead to nominal damages ($1), but if it started popping up in search engines I am sure Wikipedia would hear from Larousse's US trademark representatives who would be probably more than happy if Wikipedia agrees to cease and desist using such a mark. Alex756

Regarding geographic origin the Canadian act also defines that term in sec. 2: "geographical indication" « indication géographique » "geographical indication" means, in respect of a wine or spirit, an indication that (a) identifies the wine or spirit as originating in the territory of a WTO Member, or a region or locality of that territory, where a quality, reputation or other characteristic of the wine or spirit is essentially attributable to its geographical origin, and (b) except in the case of an indication identifying a wine or spirit originating in Canada, is protected by the laws applicable to that WTO Member; Alex756

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 tarquin wrote: | Reality check: | it's a server name. | NOBODY is going to see it except the devs and the occasional mention of | "our Larousse server is down" on this mailing list. Ah, such savoir-plaindre! Have some champagne de la Californie and join the bagarre. [This message is close-smilied for the humor-impared.] - -- ~ Sean Barrett | Vortex goggles on? Here we go! --Calvin ~ sean(a)epoptic.com |

Andre Engels wrote: One cannot confuse American champagne with the real stuff. It's all in the taste. Some producers do use the expression that their sparkling wine is produced in the "méthede champennoise". Ec

--- Sean Barrett <sean(a)epoptic.org> wrote: In any case, that was real nice to give a "french" name to the server and we appreciated the choice. This said, trademark or no trademark, the french Champagne is best. Initially, the Champagne region was a very poor region, very very low yields due to soils not really fit for agriculture. It was refered (or rr ?) to as "Champagne pouilleuse" ("poux" are lices). Later, with progress in agricultural techniques, soils were improved. It is now one of the richest regions in terms of agriculture. We grow there wine (for Champagne in particular), potatoes (1000 euros of margin for an hectare) and beets. Single women ! marry Champagne farmers. Thanks to potatoes, beets and all the money from great Champagne exports, they are *rich* guys. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com

To Ray Saintonge "méthode champennoise". Méthode rather than méthede. Méthode like english method, I think. The process of fabrication. End of the french cultural minute :-) Alvaro

On Wed, 21 May 2003 09:56:59 -0400, Alex R. <alex756(a)nyc.rr.com> gave utterance to the following: That isn't going to happen. "Larousse" is only temporarily visible during the transition to the new webserver. The name will not be used at all in public once the transition is complete. My hosts use server names which include "Scooby" and "Scrappy" but the only reason I know that is through doing contract work for them (you might see it on a tracerout result, too). Will Hanna-Barbera file suit? Not likely. -- Richard Grevers I live in my own little world

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Richard Grevers wrote: | My hosts use server names | which include "Scooby" and "Scrappy" but the only reason I know that is | through doing contract work for them (you might see it on a tracerout | result, too). Will Hanna-Barbera file suit? Not likely. Similarly, the Jet Propulsion Lab's mail servers are named for the Jetsons -- Elroy delivered all my mail for quite a few years. Should JPL, CalTech, or NASA worried? My servers are named Orwen, Orgoch, and Orddu. For two Wikicents, who did I lift the names from? No fair googling. - -- ~ Sean Barrett | Vortex goggles on? Here we go! --Calvin ~ sean(a)epoptic.com |

Has there been any resolution on the trademark battle between Budweiser beer of Czechoslovakia and Budweiser beer of the United States? Zoe --- Andre Engels <engels(a)uni-koblenz.de> wrote: http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com

Je Ĵaŭdo 22 Majo 2003 08:11, Bill(a)ng3k.com skribis: I should point out that the way our DNS is set up, *every* possible subdomain exists, should one look for it: $ host webster.wikipedia.org webster.wikipedia.org has address 130.94.122.197 $ host encarta.wikipedia.org encarta.wikipedia.org has address 130.94.122.197 $ host groliers.wikipedia.org groliers.wikipedia.org has address 130.94.122.197 $ host goatse.cx.wikipedia.org goatse.cx.wikipedia.org has address 130.94.122.197 $ host akfljsdiovw.wikipedia.org akfljsdiovw.wikipedia.org has address 130.94.122.197 -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Brion Vibber wrote: So am I correct to think that nobody will ever *run*across* <larousse.wikipedia.org> -- that is, they'll never find it without typing in "larousse" at some point themselves? -- Toby

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Toby Bartels wrote: | Sean Barrett wrote: | | |>My servers are named Orwen, Orgoch, and Orddu. For two Wikicents, who |>did I lift the names from? No fair googling. | | | These are the Fates in ancient Wales. | They may be found today in Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles | (but he didn't invent them). Very good. And even tho Disney made a cartoon of "The Black Cauldron," I don't expect them to sue me. [Okay, go ahead and insert a Spanish Inquisition joke here.] - -- ~ Sean Barrett | When trouble arises and things look bad, ~ sean(a)epoptic.com | there is always one individual who perceives ~ | a solution and is willing to take command. ~ | Very often, that individual is crazy.

Brion Vibber wrote: Right, I covered that in an earlier post but forgot it in the last one. But that's all OK. -- Toby