Hello.
I find it a bit weird, that you discuss about nds.wikipedia on the mailing list and not even post a message on nds.wikipedia. I found this discussion by chance after some people came into the wiki making changes without knowing really what they do.
Some people here are running down admin and other users of nds.wikipedia, which are the only people really active on that wiki for long time. They are engaged on making it a better usable resource in Low Saxon language and we introduced a common orthography based on the wordbook by Johannes Sass to make it consistent so you don't have to know all the regional variants of the language, which are for some cases mutually unintelligible. The orthography by Sass is based on the most widely used dialect, that is also mostly used when spoken in supra-regional media.
I think some people discussing here are speaking out of their ivory tower and don't know what is really going on at the "base". I see some Dutch engaged here. Let me say: Dutch variant of Low Saxon is not understandable for most of German Low Saxon speakers (Sure, they are understandable near the border). Some state the wiki is in Plattdüütsch rather than Low Saxon. This is so true as it is not true. Plattdüütsch is the most important variant of Low Saxon (Low Saxon is an academic classification) and the common name of the language in Germany. If no Dutch contribute it is no wonder, when the wikipedia is more and more germanized (or shall the German learn Dutch and Nedersaksisch to balance the Dutch contribution deficits?)
You don't need all your fingers to count all regular contributors to the wiki. Why do so much people argue here about the content of the wiki and nobody of the people, who obviously know so much about the language, contributes?
I'm a little bit angry because of the behaviour of some.
--~~~~ Greets, Slomox
Hi Wiki,
The reason why I don't post is because that Wiki doesn't "support" my dialect... You are very wrong in saying (at least I think so) that in Germany are the most "important" dialects of Low Saxon... on the Nds Wiki you just ignore those Dutch dialects with about 1.8 million speakers... The reason why Dutch speakers don't contribute is because the writing system is completely incomprehensible! I think you look a bit narrow minded at this subject... the guy who wrote the book was most likely German (at least I presume!) and he did not invent the spelling for international use, just as in Holland we didn't invent the spelling for international use. If you want to use it for a international purpose than you have to adapt the writing system (as you mentioned it's spoking in every continent except the Antarctic). If I post on Nds, they complain that they don't understand the writing and change it to German-based spelling... I'm not German so why would I have my messages in German-based spelling?!
"Johannes Sass" didn't invent a very good orthography to my opinion, he should have a least looked at both major-LS speaking countries and made a compromise of both writing systems, or better yet look at the Old LS writing system when it used to be a official language in 1500!
If Plattdüütsch is the name for the dialects in Germany then why is it called that, you're not the only LS speakers in the world as mentioned almost every continent! Why not make the ISO code PT than?
Servien
2005/7/10, wiki@marcusbuck.org wiki@marcusbuck.org:
Hello.
I find it a bit weird, that you discuss about nds.wikipedia on the mailing list and not even post a message on nds.wikipedia. I found this discussion by chance after some people came into the wiki making changes without knowing really what they do.
Some people here are running down admin and other users of nds.wikipedia, which are the only people really active on that wiki for long time. They are engaged on making it a better usable resource in Low Saxon language and we introduced a common orthography based on the wordbook by Johannes Sass to make it consistent so you don't have to know all the regional variants of the language, which are for some cases mutually unintelligible. The orthography by Sass is based on the most widely used dialect, that is also mostly used when spoken in supra-regional media.
I think some people discussing here are speaking out of their ivory tower and don't know what is really going on at the "base". I see some Dutch engaged here. Let me say: Dutch variant of Low Saxon is not understandable for most of German Low Saxon speakers (Sure, they are understandable near the border). Some state the wiki is in Plattdüütsch rather than Low Saxon. This is so true as it is not true. Plattdüütsch is the most important variant of Low Saxon (Low Saxon is an academic classification) and the common name of the language in Germany. If no Dutch contribute it is no wonder, when the wikipedia is more and more germanized (or shall the German learn Dutch and Nedersaksisch to balance the Dutch contribution deficits?)
You don't need all your fingers to count all regular contributors to the wiki. Why do so much people argue here about the content of the wiki and nobody of the people, who obviously know so much about the language, contributes?
I'm a little bit angry because of the behaviour of some.
--~~~~ Greets, Slomox
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hi Slomox,
I find it interesting that you refer to the Sass orthography, when Heiko recently reverted changes by Reinhart Hahn to attempt to bring a page into accordance with the Sass orthography.
"Der neue Sass" makes a few important phonetic distinctions that you guys don't make. When Ron added them, as well as fixing you guys' poor grammar, his changes were reverted by HeikoEvermann.
Re running down admins... Slomox, both you and HeikoEvermann state very clearly that your native language is Hochdeutsch, not Platt. Important decisions such as orthography shouldn't be made by second-language speakers only, and neither should the entire interface be translated and thousands of articles created mostly by second-language speakers (look at na: for a worst-case scenario; ga: still has problems because much of its initial content, and the user interface, was written in poor Irish by a second-language speaker).
Re Platt being the same as Low Saxon... this is laughable at best. "Platt" includes East Low German, as well as real actual Low Saxon. You guys actually note this on your mainpage, so it's strange that you deny it here.
The solution to this problem as I see it: Fix the grammatical problems with nds.wiki which are the result of contributor incompetency. Add nessecary orthographic distinctions. Introduce orthographic converter based on the model I constructed.
And then, after this, there needs to be a recognition that nds.wiki at the current time can only be for Northern and Western Low Saxon, ie excluding Plautdietsch, Westphaelsch, Eastphaelsch... otherwise we open the Pandora's box of incomprehensibility.
Mark
On 10/07/05, wiki@marcusbuck.org wiki@marcusbuck.org wrote:
Hello.
I find it a bit weird, that you discuss about nds.wikipedia on the mailing list and not even post a message on nds.wikipedia. I found this discussion by chance after some people came into the wiki making changes without knowing really what they do.
Some people here are running down admin and other users of nds.wikipedia, which are the only people really active on that wiki for long time. They are engaged on making it a better usable resource in Low Saxon language and we introduced a common orthography based on the wordbook by Johannes Sass to make it consistent so you don't have to know all the regional variants of the language, which are for some cases mutually unintelligible. The orthography by Sass is based on the most widely used dialect, that is also mostly used when spoken in supra-regional media.
I think some people discussing here are speaking out of their ivory tower and don't know what is really going on at the "base". I see some Dutch engaged here. Let me say: Dutch variant of Low Saxon is not understandable for most of German Low Saxon speakers (Sure, they are understandable near the border). Some state the wiki is in Plattdüütsch rather than Low Saxon. This is so true as it is not true. Plattdüütsch is the most important variant of Low Saxon (Low Saxon is an academic classification) and the common name of the language in Germany. If no Dutch contribute it is no wonder, when the wikipedia is more and more germanized (or shall the German learn Dutch and Nedersaksisch to balance the Dutch contribution deficits?)
You don't need all your fingers to count all regular contributors to the wiki. Why do so much people argue here about the content of the wiki and nobody of the people, who obviously know so much about the language, contributes?
I'm a little bit angry because of the behaviour of some.
--~~~~ Greets, Slomox
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hi everyone,
just for the record and for the slow in hearing,
I find it interesting that you refer to the Sass orthography, when Heiko recently reverted changes by Reinhart Hahn to attempt to bring a page into accordance with the Sass orthography.
This is not correct. Sass states different in all changes in question.
"Der neue Sass" makes a few important phonetic distinctions that you guys don't make. When Ron added them, as well as fixing you guys' poor grammar, his changes were reverted by HeikoEvermann.
No, it does not make these distinctions. The interesting feature about the new Sass is that it lists variants of the main entries in the dictionary, and the "important phonetic destinction" can only be *inferred* from whether or not certain variants are given, or not. We have decided as nds.wikipedia.org community to write according to Sass and in the case of variants this means to go by the first one.
Just one example: * engl: "many" => "veel (vääl)". So Sass favours "veel" över "vääl" and states that veel is to pronounce "eintonig" and not as a diphtong like "veyl".
Nevertheless Mark changed "veel" into "vääl". I then reverted it. In general Sass favours "e" över "ä". Mark does otherwise. He changed a lot of "e"s into "ä"s. I do not consider that an improvement.
Re running down admins... Slomox, both you and HeikoEvermann state very clearly that your native language is Hochdeutsch, not Platt. Important decisions such as orthography shouldn't be made by second-language speakers only, and neither should the entire interface be translated and thousands of articles created mostly by second-language speakers (look at na: for a worst-case scenario; ga: still has problems because much of its initial content, and the user interface, was written in poor Irish by a second-language speaker).
We have decided to go according to the main Low Saxon orthography that is in use in Germany, and such a decision is certainly within our language competence.
The solution to this problem as I see it: Fix the grammatical problems with nds.wiki which are the result of contributor incompetency. Add nessecary orthographic distinctions. Introduce orthographic converter based on the model I constructed.
1) We have been tidying up a lot recently, but Mark fails to notice. He just comes along, has an idea, does not ask the community about its customs and just does whatever he has in mind. He gets reverted, does it again and gets into trouble. This is egotism. Wikipedia however is supposed to be a community project. 2) Whether or not these phonetic distinctions are neccessary or not is not just for me or for Mark to decide. The main orthography (according to Sass) thinks otherwise. And therefore it is fine not to make that distinction. 3) That also means that his orthographic converter will not be needed. Unless, of course, a community process over time comes to a different conclusion.
And then, after this, there needs to be a recognition that nds.wiki at the current time can only be for Northern and Western Low Saxon, ie excluding Plautdietsch, Westphaelsch, Eastphaelsch... otherwise we open the Pandora's box of incomprehensibility.
Yes, this is indeed the case. But these variants of Low Saxon are different no matter what orthography you use. Nordneddersassisch is one of the variants within Low Saxon that developed into a standard. (BTW: Harry Potter vol 1+2 were translated into Low Saxon, guess into which version... Right: Nordneddersassisch)
As a last word I want to apologizw to the mailing list for bothering you with these problems.
Kind regards,
Heiko Evermann
Hi everyone,
just for the record and for the slow in hearing,
I find it interesting that you refer to the Sass orthography, when Heiko recently reverted changes by Reinhart Hahn to attempt to bring a page into accordance with the Sass orthography.
This is not correct. Sass states different in all changes in question.
"Der neue Sass" makes a few important phonetic distinctions that you guys don't make. When Ron added them, as well as fixing you guys' poor grammar, his changes were reverted by HeikoEvermann.
No, it does not make these distinctions. The interesting feature about the new Sass is that it lists variants of the main entries in the dictionary, and the "important phonetic destinction" can only be *inferred* from whether or not certain variants are given, or not. We have decided as nds.wikipedia.org community to write according to Sass and in the case of variants this means to go by the first one.
Just one example:
- engl: "many" => "veel (vääl)". So Sass favours "veel" över "vääl" and
states that veel is to pronounce "eintonig" and not as a diphtong like "veyl".
Nevertheless Mark changed "veel" into "vääl". I then reverted it. In general Sass favours "e" över "ä". Mark does otherwise. He changed a lot of "e"s into "ä"s. I do not consider that an improvement.
I've said before and I'll say again, those changes were originally made by Ron Hahn. You reverted them, and then I reverted you. So they do not originate from me.
Re running down admins... Slomox, both you and HeikoEvermann state very clearly that your native language is Hochdeutsch, not Platt. Important decisions such as orthography shouldn't be made by second-language speakers only, and neither should the entire interface be translated and thousands of articles created mostly by second-language speakers (look at na: for a worst-case scenario; ga: still has problems because much of its initial content, and the user interface, was written in poor Irish by a second-language speaker).
We have decided to go according to the main Low Saxon orthography that is in use in Germany, and such a decision is certainly within our language competence.
The solution to this problem as I see it: Fix the grammatical problems with nds.wiki which are the result of contributor incompetency. Add nessecary orthographic distinctions. Introduce orthographic converter based on the model I constructed.
- We have been tidying up a lot recently, but Mark fails to notice. He just
comes along, has an idea, does not ask the community about its customs and just does whatever he has in mind. He gets reverted, does it again and gets into trouble. This is egotism. Wikipedia however is supposed to be a community project.
If it's supposed to be a community project, then why are you excluding opinions such as Servien's and Ron's as if they were from outside, even though these people tried to contribute?
- Whether or not these phonetic distinctions are neccessary or not is not
just for me or for Mark to decide. The main orthography (according to Sass) thinks otherwise. And therefore it is fine not to make that distinction. 3) That also means that his orthographic converter will not be needed. Unless, of course, a community process over time comes to a different conclusion.
How is the conclusion about an orthographic converter even RELATED to your other conclusion??
And then, after this, there needs to be a recognition that nds.wiki at the current time can only be for Northern and Western Low Saxon, ie excluding Plautdietsch, Westphaelsch, Eastphaelsch... otherwise we open the Pandora's box of incomprehensibility.
Yes, this is indeed the case. But these variants of Low Saxon are different no matter what orthography you use. Nordneddersassisch is one of the variants within Low Saxon that developed into a standard. (BTW: Harry Potter vol 1+2 were translated into Low Saxon, guess into which version... Right: Nordneddersassisch)
What is your point here? That's basically what I said.
Mark
Hi Mark,
Nevertheless Mark changed "veel" into "vääl". I then reverted it. In general Sass favours "e" över "ä". Mark does otherwise. He changed a lot of "e"s into "ä"s. I do not consider that an improvement.
I've said before and I'll say again, those changes were originally made by Ron Hahn. You reverted them, and then I reverted you. So they do not originate from me.
Maybe. But after all, anonymous edits are living a dangerous life. As I said somewhere else: I use the recent changes patrol flags to check each and every edit in nds.wikipedia.org. Anonymous edits are something I check twice.
- We have been tidying up a lot recently, but Mark fails to notice. He
just comes along, has an idea, does not ask the community about its customs and just does whatever he has in mind. He gets reverted, does it again and gets into trouble. This is egotism. Wikipedia however is supposed to be a community project.
If it's supposed to be a community project, then why are you excluding opinions such as Servien's and Ron's as if they were from outside, even though these people tried to contribute?
I have had a long discussion with Servien. The result of which is that we would like to have two different wikipedias: nds and nds-nl, and we perfectly agree. The problem with you is just that you do as you please, and when someone disagrees, you just go on as you please. Again: "respect the community". And a further piece of information: community is those people who were already there. If someone comes to join, the best way to earn respect within a community is by doing good work. Good work being work that the community that is already there likes. If however someone comes and just changes things without caring about previous discussions, then this is what might happen: 1) the changes happen to be in line with previous decisions. Good luck. Respect points earned. 2) the changes happen to go against local policy. Bad luck. No respect points earned. 2.1) the changes were anonymous. Community suspects some kind of vandalism. Quick revert. Such things happen at least twice a week. The problem with anonymous users is that you cannot even drop them a note. Hence the quick revert. 2.2) the changes were made by a logged in user. Community might complain. A discussion starts. Changes may or may not be reverted.
The first edits of the article about "Katt" were anonymous and they did not fit into our local policy. They got reverted. Then you stepped in and just did the same thing. And that brought you into trouble.
- Whether or not these phonetic distinctions are neccessary or not is
not just for me or for Mark to decide. The main orthography (according to Sass) thinks otherwise. And therefore it is fine not to make that distinction. 3) That also means that his orthographic converter will not be needed. Unless, of course, a community process over time comes to a different conclusion.
How is the conclusion about an orthographic converter even RELATED to your other conclusion??
We do not need your orthographic converter, because we are not converting from Sass to Ron's spelling.
And then, after this, there needs to be a recognition that nds.wiki at the current time can only be for Northern and Western Low Saxon, ie excluding Plautdietsch, Westphaelsch, Eastphaelsch... otherwise we open the Pandora's box of incomprehensibility.
Yes, this is indeed the case. But these variants of Low Saxon are different no matter what orthography you use. Nordneddersassisch is one of the variants within Low Saxon that developed into a standard. (BTW: Harry Potter vol 1+2 were translated into Low Saxon, guess into which version... Right: Nordneddersassisch)
What is your point here? That's basically what I said.
My point is that you seemed to present your point in a way that suggests that this decision is deplorable. I said. Yes! This is the way it is.
Kind regards,
Heiko Evermann
On 12/07/05, Heiko Evermann heiko.evermann@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Mark,
Nevertheless Mark changed "veel" into "vääl". I then reverted it. In general Sass favours "e" över "ä". Mark does otherwise. He changed a lot of "e"s into "ä"s. I do not consider that an improvement.
I've said before and I'll say again, those changes were originally made by Ron Hahn. You reverted them, and then I reverted you. So they do not originate from me.
Maybe. But after all, anonymous edits are living a dangerous life. As I said somewhere else: I use the recent changes patrol flags to check each and every edit in nds.wikipedia.org. Anonymous edits are something I check twice.
Perhaps you didn't also notice that, besides changing the orthography, he also fixed the poor grammar, and made it sound more "Platt" and less "Patentplatt"?
- We have been tidying up a lot recently, but Mark fails to notice. He
just comes along, has an idea, does not ask the community about its customs and just does whatever he has in mind. He gets reverted, does it again and gets into trouble. This is egotism. Wikipedia however is supposed to be a community project.
If it's supposed to be a community project, then why are you excluding opinions such as Servien's and Ron's as if they were from outside, even though these people tried to contribute?
I have had a long discussion with Servien. The result of which is that we would like to have two different wikipedias: nds and nds-nl, and we perfectly agree. The problem with you is just that you do as you please, and when someone disagrees, you just go on as you please. Again: "respect the community". And a further piece of information: community is those people who were already there. If someone comes to join, the best way to earn respect within a community is by doing good work. Good work being work that the community that is already there likes. If however someone comes and just changes things without caring about previous discussions, then this is what might happen:
- the changes happen to be in line with previous decisions. Good luck.
Respect points earned. 2) the changes happen to go against local policy. Bad luck. No respect points earned. 2.1) the changes were anonymous. Community suspects some kind of vandalism. Quick revert. Such things happen at least twice a week. The problem with anonymous users is that you cannot even drop them a note. Hence the quick revert. 2.2) the changes were made by a logged in user. Community might complain. A discussion starts. Changes may or may not be reverted.
The first edits of the article about "Katt" were anonymous and they did not fit into our local policy. They got reverted. Then you stepped in and just did the same thing. And that brought you into trouble.
No, the first edits were fixing grammar. Only later did Ron modify the orthography. It wasn't even to his ANS, but rather to a version of the normal German orthography that makes the important phonetic distinctions.
- Whether or not these phonetic distinctions are neccessary or not is
not just for me or for Mark to decide. The main orthography (according to Sass) thinks otherwise. And therefore it is fine not to make that distinction. 3) That also means that his orthographic converter will not be needed. Unless, of course, a community process over time comes to a different conclusion.
How is the conclusion about an orthographic converter even RELATED to your other conclusion??
We do not need your orthographic converter, because we are not converting from Sass to Ron's spelling.
Perhaps you haven't tried my orthographic converter? It's not for converting from Sass to Ron's spelling. It's for converting from Sass to Netherlands spelling, and vice-versa. I have said that a few times, and it was always there for you to try.
And then, after this, there needs to be a recognition that nds.wiki at the current time can only be for Northern and Western Low Saxon, ie excluding Plautdietsch, Westphaelsch, Eastphaelsch... otherwise we open the Pandora's box of incomprehensibility.
Yes, this is indeed the case. But these variants of Low Saxon are different no matter what orthography you use. Nordneddersassisch is one of the variants within Low Saxon that developed into a standard. (BTW: Harry Potter vol 1+2 were translated into Low Saxon, guess into which version... Right: Nordneddersassisch)
What is your point here? That's basically what I said.
My point is that you seemed to present your point in a way that suggests that this decision is deplorable. I said. Yes! This is the way it is.
What I said is, is that it needs to be made VERY CLEAR that since Plautdietsch, (West&East)phaelsch, and other smaller varieties of Low German are very difficult to understand with North and West Low Saxon, that the nds.wikipedia does not allow them, and that if you want to write in them, you need to request a new Wikipedia. Currently, it is ambiguous -- it just says it's a Wikipedia for Platt.
It should say that clearly on the mainpage.
Mark
I've just dug up earlier discussions about the Platt Wikipedia, and about Patentplatt/Fernsehplatt in general.
See:
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0505D&L=lowlands-l&... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0506A&L=lowlands-l&... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S2=lowlands-l&q=patentplatt&...
Mark
PS: If Ron Hahn says that nds.wikipedia is in Patentplatt, are you telling us that Ron Hahn is wrong? After all, he's a native speaker and you're not.
On 10/07/05, wiki@marcusbuck.org wiki@marcusbuck.org wrote:
Hello.
I find it a bit weird, that you discuss about nds.wikipedia on the mailing list and not even post a message on nds.wikipedia. I found this discussion by chance after some people came into the wiki making changes without knowing really what they do.
Some people here are running down admin and other users of nds.wikipedia, which are the only people really active on that wiki for long time. They are engaged on making it a better usable resource in Low Saxon language and we introduced a common orthography based on the wordbook by Johannes Sass to make it consistent so you don't have to know all the regional variants of the language, which are for some cases mutually unintelligible. The orthography by Sass is based on the most widely used dialect, that is also mostly used when spoken in supra-regional media.
I think some people discussing here are speaking out of their ivory tower and don't know what is really going on at the "base". I see some Dutch engaged here. Let me say: Dutch variant of Low Saxon is not understandable for most of German Low Saxon speakers (Sure, they are understandable near the border). Some state the wiki is in Plattdüütsch rather than Low Saxon. This is so true as it is not true. Plattdüütsch is the most important variant of Low Saxon (Low Saxon is an academic classification) and the common name of the language in Germany. If no Dutch contribute it is no wonder, when the wikipedia is more and more germanized (or shall the German learn Dutch and Nedersaksisch to balance the Dutch contribution deficits?)
You don't need all your fingers to count all regular contributors to the wiki. Why do so much people argue here about the content of the wiki and nobody of the people, who obviously know so much about the language, contributes?
I'm a little bit angry because of the behaviour of some.
--~~~~ Greets, Slomox
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hi everyone,
First of all Mark: As I said: "what is a native speaker" if you dream and speak it... well then I am a native speaker... or at least bilingual, besides, ALL LS people are bilingual, and as said, both versions are not mutually comprehensible (for the millionth time!)
Heiko, Slomox etc.: I don't mind if you continue on nds. besides it was never my goal to get you to go to nds-de. I just like to create a Dutch-LS Wiki, and confincing Mark that it's almost impossible to cooperate on one Wiki if both speakers don't understand each other. If nds-nl. gets created and you want a common portal that's fine with me, or we could just put a link on the homepage as I've done on my testpage.
(I won't vote to remove Heiko, that's just pure "evilness-ness" and "jealousy-ness-ness"!)
Now lets wait if it ever gets created... BTW I changed the title, was kind of necessary as the subject doesn't match the content!
Servien
2005/7/11, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com:
I've just dug up earlier discussions about the Platt Wikipedia, and about Patentplatt/Fernsehplatt in general.
See:
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0505D&L=lowlands-l&... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0506A&L=lowlands-l&... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?S2=lowlands-l&q=patentplatt&...
Mark
PS: If Ron Hahn says that nds.wikipedia is in Patentplatt, are you telling us that Ron Hahn is wrong? After all, he's a native speaker and you're not.
On 10/07/05, wiki@marcusbuck.org wiki@marcusbuck.org wrote:
Hello.
I find it a bit weird, that you discuss about nds.wikipedia on the mailing list and not even post a message on nds.wikipedia. I found this discussion by chance after some people came into the wiki making changes without knowing really what they do.
Some people here are running down admin and other users of nds.wikipedia, which are the only people really active on that wiki for long time. They are engaged on making it a better usable resource in Low Saxon language and we introduced a common orthography based on the wordbook by Johannes Sass to make it consistent so you don't have to know all the regional variants of the language, which are for some cases mutually unintelligible. The orthography by Sass is based on the most widely used dialect, that is also mostly used when spoken in supra-regional media.
I think some people discussing here are speaking out of their ivory tower and don't know what is really going on at the "base". I see some Dutch engaged here. Let me say: Dutch variant of Low Saxon is not understandable for most of German Low Saxon speakers (Sure, they are understandable near the border). Some state the wiki is in Plattdüütsch rather than Low Saxon. This is so true as it is not true. Plattdüütsch is the most important variant of Low Saxon (Low Saxon is an academic classification) and the common name of the language in Germany. If no Dutch contribute it is no wonder, when the wikipedia is more and more germanized (or shall the German learn Dutch and Nedersaksisch to balance the Dutch contribution deficits?)
You don't need all your fingers to count all regular contributors to the wiki. Why do so much people argue here about the content of the wiki and nobody of the people, who obviously know so much about the language, contributes?
I'm a little bit angry because of the behaviour of some.
--~~~~ Greets, Slomox
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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