On 12/07/05, Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann(a)gmx.de> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Nevertheless Mark changed "veel" into "vääl". I then reverted it. In
general Sass favours "e" över "ä". Mark does otherwise. He changed a
lot
of "e"s into "ä"s. I do not consider that an improvement.
I've said before and I'll say again, those changes were originally
made by Ron Hahn. You reverted them, and then I reverted you. So they
do not originate from me.
Maybe. But after all, anonymous edits are living a
dangerous life. As I said
somewhere else: I use the recent changes patrol flags to check each and every
edit in
nds.wikipedia.org. Anonymous edits are something I check twice.
Perhaps you didn't also notice that, besides changing the orthography,
he also fixed the poor grammar, and made it sound more "Platt" and
less "Patentplatt"?
1) We have been tidying up a lot recently, but Mark
fails to notice. He
just comes along, has an idea, does not ask the community about its
customs and just does whatever he has in mind. He gets reverted, does it
again and gets into trouble. This is egotism. Wikipedia however is
supposed to be a community project.
If it's supposed to be a community project, then why are you excluding
opinions such as Servien's and Ron's as if they were from outside,
even though these people tried to contribute?
I have had a long discussion with
Servien. The result of which is that we
would like to have two different wikipedias: nds and nds-nl, and we perfectly
agree. The problem with you is just that you do as you please, and when
someone disagrees, you just go on as you please. Again: "respect the
community". And a further piece of information: community is those people who
were already there. If someone comes to join, the best way to earn respect
within a community is by doing good work. Good work being work that the
community that is already there likes. If however someone comes and just
changes things without caring about previous discussions, then this is what
might happen:
1) the changes happen to be in line with previous decisions. Good luck.
Respect points earned.
2) the changes happen to go against local policy. Bad luck. No respect points
earned.
2.1) the changes were anonymous. Community suspects some kind of vandalism.
Quick revert. Such things happen at least twice a week. The problem with
anonymous users is that you cannot even drop them a note. Hence the quick
revert.
2.2) the changes were made by a logged in user. Community might complain. A
discussion starts. Changes may or may not be reverted.
The first edits of the article about "Katt" were anonymous and they did not
fit into our local policy. They got reverted. Then you stepped in and just
did the same thing. And that brought you into trouble.
No, the first edits were fixing grammar. Only later did Ron modify the
orthography. It wasn't even to his ANS, but rather to a version of the
normal German orthography that makes the important phonetic
distinctions.
2) Whether or not these phonetic distinctions are
neccessary or not is
not just for me or for Mark to decide. The main orthography (according to
Sass) thinks otherwise. And therefore it is fine not to make that
distinction. 3) That also means that his orthographic converter will not
be needed. Unless, of course, a community process over time comes to a
different conclusion.
How is the conclusion about an orthographic converter even RELATED to
your other conclusion??
We do not need your orthographic converter, because we are
not converting from
Sass to Ron's spelling.
Perhaps you haven't tried my orthographic converter? It's not for
converting from Sass to Ron's spelling. It's for converting from Sass
to Netherlands spelling, and vice-versa. I have said that a few times,
and it was always there for you to try.
And then,
after this, there needs to be a recognition that nds.wiki at
the current time can only be for Northern and Western Low Saxon, ie
excluding Plautdietsch, Westphaelsch, Eastphaelsch... otherwise we
open the Pandora's box of incomprehensibility.
Yes, this is indeed the case. But these variants of Low Saxon are
different no matter what orthography you use. Nordneddersassisch is one
of the variants within Low Saxon that developed into a standard. (BTW:
Harry Potter vol 1+2 were translated into Low Saxon, guess into which
version... Right: Nordneddersassisch)
What is your point here? That's basically what I said.
My point is that you
seemed to present your point in a way that suggests that
this decision is deplorable. I said. Yes! This is the way it is.
What I said is, is that it needs to be made VERY CLEAR that since
Plautdietsch, (West&East)phaelsch, and other smaller varieties of Low
German are very difficult to understand with North and West Low Saxon,
that the nds.wikipedia does not allow them, and that if you want to
write in them, you need to request a new Wikipedia. Currently, it is
ambiguous -- it just says it's a Wikipedia for Platt.
It should say that clearly on the mainpage.
Mark