Hoi! Sadly enough ro.wiki is not an exception. Can you provide complete translations with permalinks? I hear there shall soon be a special Committee deciding whether such wikies shall remain part of the wikipedia project or be expelled altogether. Moreover, if wmf does not act on legal level as such I, along with other individuals may be willing to try individuals in Court asking refund for the damage they cause to the wmf. It's time we get rid of racism and nationalistic deliriums. And it's time we have people condemned to pay for what they do, if and when what they do is a crime. It's not only about the Jews, the Slavic wikies have a number of such abnormal behaviours based on internal tribalism, too. We aren't working for free all day long just to have these idiots put their penises on a table to measure who's got it longer. It's time we take a stand, methinks. Same applies to equivalent red or religious deliriums, if any. Enough is enough. One odd article happens everywhere, but a full trend is another thing. We publish encyclopedic content, not someone's dumb political pamphlets. People either acknowledge what "encyclopedia" means or learn to pay for their servers. Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html -----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John Kavalos Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:50 PM To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] From Romanian Wikipedia, the Nazi Encyclopedia There are some serious issues on Romanian Wikipedia, where a few Nazis have been taking over lots of articles, while the admins are supporting and defending them. I tried arguing, but it's useless with such a horde of freaks. The issue is spread on dozens of articles and I choose for example, one of them, the article on Zionism: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sionism The article on Zionism is completely written from an anti-semitic POV, and it even has a section of comparison between Zionism and Fascism, one about propaganda in the "corporatist press" and one about "ethnic purification". Here are some excerpts: "Zionism is not Judaism, not Semitism (sic!), but a racist ideology which glorifies violence, just like Fascism" "the Jewish Romanians of Bessarabia betrayed the interests of their country" "later, Zionism got a fascist "colour". Vladimir Jabotinsky is an ideologue of terrorism, while the first modern terrorist state, Bolshevik Russia..." "when their leave was refused, the same Bolshevik-Zionist-anti-nationals become refuseniks, then neo-conservatives by leaving directly to America, where they promote Zionist wars." There's absolutely nothing that can be kept from that article. Everything is just the lowest kind of anti-semitic propaganda. So I tried to revert to an older explaining that it's written from a neo-nazi POV. I got a warning for that, it was reverted and protected. I don't want to waste my time negotiating with Nazis. Any solution, apart from stopping editing Romanian Wikipedia? _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Hoi! Sadly enough ro.wiki is not an exception. Can you provide complete translations with permalinks? I hear there shall soon be a special

deciding whether such wikies shall remain part of the wikipedia project or be expelled altogether. Moreover, if wmf does not act on legal level as such I, along with other individuals may be willing to try individuals in Court asking refund for

damage they cause to the wmf. It's time we get rid of racism and nationalistic deliriums. And it's time

have people condemned to pay for what they do, if and when what they do is

crime. It's not only about the Jews, the Slavic wikies have a number of

abnormal behaviours based on internal tribalism, too. We aren't working for free all day long just to have these idiots put

penises on a table to measure who's got it longer. It's time we take a stand, methinks. Same applies to equivalent red or religious deliriums, if any. Enough is enough. One odd article happens everywhere, but a full

is another thing. We publish encyclopedic content, not someone's dumb political pamphlets. People either acknowledge what "encyclopedia" means or learn to pay for their servers. Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html -----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John Kavalos Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:50 PM To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] From Romanian Wikipedia, the Nazi Encyclopedia There are some serious issues on Romanian Wikipedia, where a few Nazis have been taking over lots of articles, while the admins are supporting and defending them. I tried arguing, but it's useless with such a horde of freaks. The issue is spread on dozens of articles and I choose for example, one of them, the article on Zionism: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sionism The article on Zionism is completely written from an anti-semitic POV, and it even has a section of comparison between Zionism and Fascism, one about propaganda in the "corporatist press" and one about "ethnic purification". Here are some excerpts: "Zionism is not Judaism, not Semitism (sic!), but a racist ideology which glorifies violence, just like Fascism" "the Jewish Romanians of Bessarabia betrayed the interests of their country" "later, Zionism got a fascist "colour". Vladimir Jabotinsky is an

of terrorism, while the first modern terrorist state, Bolshevik Russia..." "when their leave was refused, the same Bolshevik-Zionist-anti-nationals become refuseniks, then neo-conservatives by leaving directly to America, where they promote Zionist wars." There's absolutely nothing that can be kept from that article. Everything is just the lowest kind of anti-semitic propaganda. So I tried to revert to an older explaining that it's written from a neo-nazi POV. I got a warning for that, it was reverted and protected. I don't want to waste my time negotiating with Nazis. Any solution, apart from stopping editing Romanian Wikipedia? _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Hoi again! Francis and John, pls bear in mind that to stand in front of an

Committee you will need to have full translations of the articles AND a permalink to the translated version. Bear in mind that mostly the people in the Arbitration Committee will not

able to read the original text and that your opponents will obviously say you have totally misunderstood the text. The ArbCom will not judge whether being a left/right wing is nice, it will judge whether a wiki is

encyclopedic content or not. What a report needs to show (for example) is: 1) There is a clear political (moral/religious/racial) bias in the wiki 2) Articles do not have an encyclopedic form, they rather appear to be a "Pravda" (no sources, no countering POVs listed, just a "revelation") 3) Derogative racial/national/etc terms are used as normal lexicon The political/religious/moral/racial direction towards the wiki is

is absolutely irrelevant. Any organized bias is intolerable as such. Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html -----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Francis

Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:13 PM To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] From Romanian Wikipedia, the Nazi Encyclopedia You can check out a small list here, it is by no means complete. http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilizator:FrancisTyers Fran On Sun, 2007-04-15 at 14:07 +0300, Berto 'd Sera wrote: Committee > deciding whether such wikies shall remain part of the wikipedia project

the > damage they cause to the wmf. > > It's time we get rid of racism and nationalistic deliriums. And it's

we > have people condemned to pay for what they do, if and when what they do

a such their > penises on a table to measure who's got it longer. It's time we take a > stand, methinks. Same applies to equivalent red or religious deliriums,

trend > is another thing. > > We publish encyclopedic content, not someone's dumb political pamphlets. > People either acknowledge what "encyclopedia" means or learn to pay for > their servers. > > Berto 'd Sera > Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti

> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org > [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John

> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:50 PM > To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: [Wikipedia-l] From Romanian Wikipedia, the Nazi Encyclopedia > > There are some serious issues on Romanian Wikipedia, where a few Nazis > have been taking over lots of articles, while the admins are > supporting and defending them. > > I tried arguing, but it's useless with such a horde of freaks. > > The issue is spread on dozens of articles and I choose for example, > one of them, the article on Zionism: > > http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sionism > > The article on Zionism is completely written from an anti-semitic POV, > and it even has a section of comparison between Zionism and Fascism, > one about propaganda in the "corporatist press" and one about "ethnic > purification". > > Here are some excerpts: > > "Zionism is not Judaism, not Semitism (sic!), but a racist ideology

ideologue > of terrorism, while the first modern terrorist state, Bolshevik

> > "when their leave was refused, the same Bolshevik-Zionist-anti-nationals > become refuseniks, then neo-conservatives by leaving directly to

> where they promote Zionist wars." > > There's absolutely nothing that can be kept from that article.

_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Francis and John, pls bear in mind that to stand in front of an

Committee you will need to have full translations of the articles AND a permalink to the translated version.

Communities are free to publish what they wish in principle, and wmf is free to decide whether this is wiki or not. If not then the project cannot use a wikipedia trademark. Apart from that any community is obviously free to publish a fully creationist wiki, a pro-terrorism wiki, a "kill-them-niggers" wiki or whatever else. Only if they wish to go that way they must do it under their own logo and they must pay for servers, development and bandwidth from their own wallets. They also have to deal with the cops themselves, since some of these POVs are treated as crimes in some nations. Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html

At the same time it is fair to point out that certain groups do believe this as long as that fact is adequately referenced.

It's not abstract principles we deal with, it's real facts, as written in permalinks. Thank God nobody can clear the backups, so it will never be a problem to translate the material and let it speak for itself. Anyway, as I told to Francis and John right from the start, it's a BIG mistake to present insulated fragments in such cases. Most people cannot read the original, and as a result in a few minutes you're going to discuss about empty principles, instead of dealing with a naked fact, as it should be.

A good place to start would be the list of articles on my User page.

John Kavalos wrote: Hi, I'm a native Romanian speaker and a sysop at ro.wiki. Please help us clear the mess by: * providing links to relevant users and edits. One of the noisiest Nazi trolls, Irismeister, has been indefinitely banned two weeks ago. See http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilizator:Irismeister . * providing links backing your allegation that "the admins are supporting and defending" the Nazi editors. I will do my best to bring this to the attention of the ro.wiki community. Yours, Iulian [[:ro:Utilizator:Iulianu]] _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

[snip] user is involved with spreading the anti-Semitism. Fran _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Francis Tyers wrote: This is a frightful attitude! It's the kind of attitude that leads to the same kind of problem from the opposite side of the issue. Democratic systems do not support punishing people for voting the "wrong way" no matter how reprehensible the position they seem to support. Ec _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

At least the other side of the issue isn't anti-Semitic. And another thing about the rise of the Nazis was the acceptance of other "points of view" that seemed reprehensible, because "everyone had a right to his or her opinion". Now, I don't particularly care if these people want to espouse Holocaust denial, anti-Semitism, crackpot conspiracy theories... but should we really be giving them server space for it? Would they not be better off with a geocities page somewhere?

Exactly. It's not about freedom; it's about damage to the trademark and to the general project. Anything else doesn't make any sense, because there will be as many ways to state what's "politically correct" as the amount of people to whom you ask an opinion. We have a project and a result from it. If something damages it (as in this case) we must gather evidence of the financial damage involved. Anything else is ideological. The only quantitative approach you can get is money. Not very poetical, sure, but at least free it's free from ideology.