Mark, For your information, I have been trying quietly to find someone to create the Ossetian wikipedia. I have been refused several times because they are nauseated by all the huha around it. Literally: you are involved so it must be controversial. I have already spoken with someone on the board and they say "ask someone as it fullfills the requirements".
So I do not care that much what you say but at this moment you have the Midas touch in reverse; everything you touch is considered shit.
Groetjes, GerardM
Mark Williamson wrote:
Oh, and I know I can at times be irritating and condescending (although this isn't usually intentional, and when it is, well, you'd better watch out). But when somebody makes a point of telling me something they dislike specifically or warns me about something about them, I don't go flagrantly violating it.
Everybody can be irritating, but it takes a true master to send a condescending message of advice to one who has in the past said he doesn't much appreciate advice (I have enough advice as it is - believe me, I've heard all of this before), especially when it's delivered in such a manner.
Mark
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:25:17 -0700, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I didn't say he didn't have a good point. I just said the method of delivery wasn't good.
So it wasn't entirely lost on me, I just got a bit pissed at Stan for the way he said it.
Mark
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 01:17:42 -0500, Olve Utne utne@nvg.org wrote:
Dear Mark W.,
At 05:09 23/02/2005 +0000, Mark Williamson wrote to Stan Shebs:
"Thanks" for the advice.
I have some for you, too - cool off a bit, and quit acting so condescending. It's very irritating, even in small doses. And as I have noted before, while friendly advice is usually appreciated by me, when it is given in a tone like this it really doesn't help anybody.
As someone who has supported you before (even though I have no way of telling whether you appreciated it), I ask you to break a little bit there -- Stan Shebs' advice wasn't *that* bad, actually... It is easy for us all to sound a bit condescending at times (and you probably think I sound condescending right now), but you sound more than a bit condescending (and, frankly, a bit irritating (since you brought up that term)) yourself at times, you know ....
I think this may be a good time for you to step back a bit and rethink your debating strategies.
Listen to Stan -- and give what he said some thought. It won't hurt. You don't need to post all your thoughts about it here (or anywhere else, at that) -- but please try to listen. Maybe you find that he isn't right. But in that case, maybe you could make your own life easier by finding out why/how people misunderstand you -- and then find ways of avoiding these misunderstandings...?
I appreciate very much your struggle for "small"-language wikipedias, Mark. I have also seen you contribute in many other great ways., and I hope that you will continue the struggle for Wikipedia to become ever more democratic and diverse within the limits of truth and humanism. But in this struggle, one needs both a strong conviction AND a level of humility (!) and flexibility (!!!) that allows people not to be driven away from the good cause.
I have defended you before, and will be happy to do so again as long as I see that you do positive things for Wikipedia. But sometimes it is time to listen and learn for all of us -- even for you.
Respectfully,
Olve
Olve Utne http://utne.nvg.org
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